A thought on the nicotine solution....

[Oliver]

Hi everyone,

I've just been thinking a little about the nicotine solution and potential improvements.

Now, I know nothing of the chemistry/physics involved in producing the vapor from the solution - except that the ingredient responsible is propylene glycol - the same as used in smoke machines in venues and theme parks.

I read elsewhere (some time ago so I've totally forgotten where) that propylene glycol is not the only choice of ingredient when used in smoke machines, but is the commonest simply because it is the cheapest.

This makes me wonder whether there are other compounds (glycols?) that could provide a better/denser vapor than propylene glycol? Obviously economics dictate, but the quantities used in e-cigs are minute compared with the gallons that get sucked up by smoke machines.

I would love some further opinion on this, especially if we can find someone who knows a little of the chemistry involved.

SJ

 

[TropicalBob]

It might be good to find another base liquid. While propylene glycol is a GRAS (generally regarded as safe) food ingredient, and is used in such things as food coloring liquids, it does have some precautions attached to it. For one thing, if it's used to "fog" an area, it's suggested not to let the vapor get in people's eyes. That's a precaution given actors performing in the confined area of a theater stage. Don't linger in the fog, Dr. Jekyll!

I don't think we e-smokers create enough vapor to fog our eyeballs, but there might be something even safer than propylene glycol.

 

[Oliver]

I hadn't really considered the safety side of things.

I suspect the main reason you don't want it in your eyes is because of its hydroscopic nature - it would irritate the surface of the eyeball by removing the moisture coating it.

I think that the hygroscopic effect is probably the reason it is able to create the vapor in the first place, so I doubt that any other substance would be any safer in this regard.

Having said that, I'm no expert in the field so I would love some explanation.

Bob, I think we need to compile a list of questions that need answers. Shall I put a sticky thread up on which we can do this? Hopefully we can get a pro, eventually, to answer them - perhaps your Kiwi doctor?

SJ

 

[TropicalBob]

A sticky would be fine. Most posts here and elsewhere seem concerned with performance or lack thereof, and failures of one sort or another. My biggest concern is the safety and appropriateness of what we're doing. I'll contribute some concrete concerns if you want to go ahead and create a separate sticky post.

You've raised some excellent concerns, by the way, and I hope manufacturers at least check out what's being written in this forum.

 

[foodovision]

I'm not really aware of anything else that could have a similar effect and be as safe as propylene glycol...
Propylene glycol, if it even stays in the lungs, will be metabolized to lactic acid, which is something your body makes and is used to having around anyway.
Ethylene glycol is similar to propylene glycol but metabolized to oxalic acid which is not safe at all.
As for other non-glycols, couldn't really say.

 

[Oliver]

Thanks foodovision, that takes care of that one! And no, I really don't want oxalic acid in my system - well not any more than I do already. I use it in my trade (furniture restoration) and boy is it horrible stuff!

Bob, my concerns are the same. Performance is moot for me now, I just want to know what the long term effects are inhaling the stuff.

 

[strokemouth]

I'm not really aware of anything else that could have a similar effect and be as safe as propylene glycol...
Propylene glycol, if it even stays in the lungs, will be metabolized to lactic acid, which is something your body makes and is used to having around anyway.
Ethylene glycol is similar to propylene glycol but metabolized to oxalic acid which is not safe at all.
As for other non-glycols, couldn't really say.

Interesting stuff.

Isn't it also lactic acid that is usually blamed for muscle soreness/cramps after exercise? Has anyone come across side effects like that with using an e-cig?

The other interesting part is that people will often recommend eating bananas to neutralize the lactic acid and help with the soreness/cramps. And another thing that bananas are supposed to help with: nicotine withdrawal.

 

[Fumador]

This is a very important topic.I am really new to e smoking (one week),but I've thought about the idea of a safer cigarette
for years.I really like smoking so I'm not ready to quit ,so this could be the answer I've been waiting for.
Anyway , I think it would be good if we could find all the studies that might have been made on electronic cigarettes ,maybe
someone could find out about the quality control of the most important sellers(njoy,sedansa,crown7,etc), and also maybe
somebody knows about what the position of the health agencies are.(Hopefully not against anything that looks like a cigarette
just for the sake of it.)

 

[TropicalBob]

There are posts all over this forum on these topics, but the quick answer is:

There has been NO study completed on e-smoking.

A researcher from New Zealand, funded by Ruyan, is undertaking probably the world's only thorough assessment of e-smoking. His preliminary findings are all good. A Malaysian doctor is doing his own independent work witn e-cigs, trying to use them to get 250 smokers to quit cigarettes. No results for at least six months are expected.

This is very new. It takes a lot of time to properly test.

As for knowing what goes on inside Chinese factories, forget it. We will never know. That has become obvious over the past two years. It's a closed country for free information.