A thought...

[Mammal]

I might be annoyingly centrist on the whole regulation issue, but in light of that:

Has anyone taken the time to write their congresscritter(s) and local equivalents not to beg specifics but simply to say "These things exist, they got me off smoking, and I'm concerned that efforts to regulate them are more likely to end up in blanket bans than making them safer?"

If we clearly state that which seems to be our actual #1 concern right now, some might actually notice and make the effort to not completely alienate us. Thing is, rattling off what interests might be involved on which sides of the 'debate' is mostly noise - the politicos can't do anything about who you do or don't trust, but what they can do is decide how to vote when the issue comes up, and what legislation they are or aren't going to propose.

Frankly, making it clear that supporting bans would not be a clearcut, no-brainer 'protecting the children' PR victory is most of that battle - if they see enough individual concern they're going to have to actually think about the issue, and once someone starts thinking about it, there's a chance they can realize that yes, these are strange new inventions to service a peculiar if-common vice, but they aren't made out of much more hazardous than a nicotine patch and a pillow in a dryer.


Just thinking about what I managed to write in about that 'PACT' bill floating around, which amounted to "Please err on the side of keeping these exempt and available, especially before there's any consensus on what the real risks are."

If we want to be counted as individuals, isn't it more convincing when we simply pipe up rather than lobbying on one bill or action-alert as an 'organized' mass? Organization has its advantages, but it also drags politicians into wondering who the organizers are and how much they trust them, rather than encountering the issue on its merits only.

[This ain't meant to be any sort of criticism, by the way - just a brainstorm as to one way we might leap the whole 'availability' hurdle a little faster - and get on to the substantive stuff, like purity.]

 

[CES]

Hi Mammal,

I'm not quite sure i see the distinctions you're making. I think you're advocating short and sweet- but you could be saying we shouldn't all use the exact same language? I haven't had enough caffeine to be sure. All of the contact info on the threads related to state legislation is for people to contact individually- by phone, email, and snail mail. There are talking points and some possible language to use available, both short and long options. From what I've seen so far, the actual contacts are very individualized. Frankly, I don't think we're organized enough yet to pipe up en masse on an action alert- we're trying to get there, so we have avenues of getting people activated- but right now it is all individualized, and the task is to get numbers of people to write and call.

 

[Mammal]

Hi Mammal,

I'm not quite sure i see the distinctions you're making. I think you're advocating short and sweet- but you could be saying we shouldn't all use the exact same language? I haven't had enough caffeine to be sure.

That's what happens when I think I'm having a good idea without enough caffeine, or with too much, I'm not sure. I was thinking something like 'short, sweet, and unconnected to any specific legislation.' Something that makes it obvious that 'we' actually are individuals and not astroturf cultivated by any one specific interest (aside from seeing 'the industry' and our favorite products from it continue to exist in general).

Of course, most politicians are more than happy to water astroturf too, and in a market economy everything affects someone's business interests unavoidably, but 'where stuff is coming from' tunes their priorities and 'BS filters.'

All of the contact info on the threads related to state legislation is for people to contact individually- by phone, email, and snail mail. There are talking points and some possible language to use available, both short and long options. From what I've seen so far, the actual contacts are very individualized.

What I think I'm trying to say is that it's human nature to wonder 'Who benefits from this?' even when that doesn't impact their final decisions. And that the interns who actually sift the mails and emails know how to Google and are going to summarize it to the legislators as '___ are worried about ___' - if it vaults their BS filters enough to be taken seriously.

Also that writing in when there's not some specific pressing issue might help each of us be a little more clear about what we really want, and tune our individual vitriol appropriately. (It is all individual prerogative, but not everyone's going to read 'tear down the FDA!' as a metaphor for discontent with a few specific amendable policies, if that's what an author really meant. I'm concerned about stuff like that to the extent that it makes it look like 'we' have been drinking antifreeze. )

Frankly, I don't think we're organized enough yet to pipe up en masse on an action alert- we're trying to get there, so we have avenues of getting people activated- but right now it is all individualized, and the task is to get numbers of people to write and call.

Don't sell... us/yourselves/'the community'/whatever-I-should-call-it short. I'm watching those FDA petitions linked at the top of ECF and 9 out of 10 comments look like they came from here (while it looks like mine won't moderate through before the next ice age, maybe I used too many parentheses or something).

We - 'vapers,' e-smokers, whatever and supporters and suppliers - are a pretty obvious unique group. Everyone else - both the people who would never smoke anything, and the people who do but aren't familiar with 'PVs' are doomed to an initial reaction of "They're inhaling what?" and won't think past that unless they have a reason to. (Yeah, propylene glycol doesn't sound 'all-natural,' as if that matters, but it looks like it metabolizes out where smoke particulates don't.)

Any staffer throwing a quick web search before bugging their boss - like, to make sure 'this is for real' and someone hasn't just put out a Mechanical Turk listing to get 70,000 'individual' emails spammed in for $10 - will find the forum sites, the supplier sites, and even CASAA. And what look like lobbying organizations are going to be perceived as lobbying organizations, so they're going to be assumed to wield some influence at first glance, whether they really do or not!

...

Dunno if that really clears anything up. If it doesn't, never mind - it seemed like a big idea at the time, but I'm not sure how it looks now that the sun is up.

 

[CES]

That's what happens when I think I'm having a good idea without enough caffeine, or with too much, I'm not sure. I was thinking something like 'short, sweet, and unconnected to any specific legislation.'

that does clear things up. I think sometimes the question is whether to be proactive or to just keep our heads down. I think the time for the latter has passed. In fact, i am planning to write to my state rep later today, and make sure she has good info for if/when this comes up here.

BTW, i have the same struggle balancing too much caffeine and not enough, and telling which is which

 

[Mac]

I have written dozens of letters and made several phone calls. I was replied to with form letters and rhetoric. It's like they didn't hear/read a word I said.

 

[kristin]

I emailed my governor a "heads up" concerned letter. I got an email saying I should probably call or write, so I didn't expect a response. However, a few days later I got a snail mail letter from him! It was a positive response and he also encouraged me to contact my local legislators, too. Which I still have to do...

 

[CES]

I emailed a whole bunch of people in 3 states, and got 6 non-automated responses. That's sort of better than i expected. I still have to write my state rep, but as much as i want to be proactive it's slide down the priority list. soon though.

 

[Mr.Frost]

I'm sorry if this is the wrong place to ask.

I'm a 42 yr, male. I was born in Amityville, N.Y. and have lived in N.Y. my entire life. I am a smoker of 20+ years and I am about to become a new ENI user.

I would like to ask if CASAA or any other Agency or Organization has set Industry standards or standards on Health, Safety, and Quality Assurance concerning the Manufacture and Distribution of ENI's and the liquid compounds used in the devices?

If so, where can I find these?

If not, perhaps establishing such standards would have a positive impact on the credibility of the devices.

In viewing the ever growing community of ENI users and suppliers, it is quite reasonable to be concerned with the sub-culture that has formed.

Freely available, home-made devices and liquids must surely be a concern?

Thank you,
Frost

 

[Thulium]

I'm sorry if this is the wrong place to ask.

I'm a 42 yr, male. I was born in Amityville, N.Y. and have lived in N.Y. my entire life. I am a smoker of 20+ years and I am about to become a new ENI user.

I would like to ask if CASAA or any other Agency or Organization has set Industry standards or standards on Health, Safety, and Quality Assurance concerning the Manufacture and Distribution of ENI's and the liquid compounds used in the devices?

If so, where can I find these?

If not, perhaps establishing such standards would have a positive impact on the credibility of the devices.

In viewing the ever growing community of ENI users and suppliers, it is quite reasonable to be concerned with the sub-culture that has formed.

Freely available, home-made devices and liquids must surely be a concern?

Thank you,
Frost

This is an excellent question, but it reflects a bit of misunderstanding about CASAA.

CASAA is the Consumer Advocates for Smoke-free Alternatives Association and as such we don't particularly have any authority to set such a standard other than by "mandate" of our membership. While I agree that setting these kinds of standards is within the scope of our stated mission, we simply don't have the resources to do this independently of members like yourself.

To that end, I would throw the question back to you: What sort of health and safety standards do you think that CASAA should endorse?

 

[Mr.Frost]

Thank you Thulium,

I actually found some of the information I was looking for on the CASAA and ECA sites.

As I said, I am a smoker and will be having my first experience with an ENI tomorrow about this time in the evening.

I would like nothing more than to find this device is everything we all hope it is. (and for some, already is).

You'll have to forgive my lack of knowledge on the current situation of ENI's, as I have only just discovered the device.

Thank you again,

Frost

 

[Mr.Frost]

To that end, I would throw the question back to you: What sort of health and safety standards do you think that CASAA should endorse?

Alas, I am not quit the educated man I'd like to be, and thus can only offer my "Average Joe" suggestions.

Most of which I have found are being addressed by both CASAA and the ECA.

I have much more information I would like to review before I would venture to make such suggestions.

I would be very interested in finding out more about any studies being conducted currently, and when their results are slated for release.

I've read quit a few of your posts and believe you are a stand up guy, fair and very realistic. All qualities, that may get beat down along the way, but always prevail in the end.

ENI's and the ENI industry have a long road ahead, I hope the journey ends well for everyone's sake.

Please feel free to contact me anytime via these forums.

Frost

 

[Territoo]

Alas, I am not quit the educated man I'd like to be, and thus can only offer my "Average Joe" suggestions.

Considering that you have 46 posts even prior to starting to vape, I suspect that you are much more educated than others at your stage of the game, and have done your research well based on the questions you are asking.

Good luck to you.

 

[Webby]

I actually found some of the information I was looking for on the CASAA and ECA sites.

That's music to our ears, Frost.

Feel free to contact us directly at (251) 285-0834 and check www.casaa.org regularly for alerts and action calls. None of knew anything when we started. Over time (and through forums like ECF) the depth of communal knowledge is incredible.

Questions?

~ Ask away ~

 

[Mr.Frost]

Thank you Webby,
I'm finding my answers with a little reading. You guys seem to have enough on your hands.

I was wondering if you've contacted any enviromental groups or "Green" organizations?

I would think the absence of cigarette butts and ash from an ENI alone, would get their support.

I viewed the interview Shepard Smith from FoxNews conducted with the gentleman from St. Lukes Hospital and got the feeling the subject struck a personal chord with Mr.Smith.

I tried to contact Mr.Smith to commend him on his powerful interview, but was unfortunately only able to send an Email, and that only had a general "FoxNews" address.

I see there is a notion that smokers are a minority, but for every smoker whose support you have, you have their family and friends support also.

Frost