Advice on converting a hardcore smoker

[Snowball]

Greetings!

I'm a total newb to vaping, but I'm hyped and would like to spread the love around, so to speak.

The case subject: my mother has been a smoker for over 40 years. While she isn't a chain smoker and won't even smoke a full pack on a normal day, she does smoke a local brand of cigarettes the likes of which I've never come across on this side of the Atlantic (or Africa or Asia, for that matter): they're fairly small (about 2/3rds of a Lucky or Marlboro), with an equally reduced filter, taste like tar (even for a smoker of 10 years like myself), have a throat hit like a hammer and high nicotine content. My analogs of choice have always been Luckies, which most people I know always deemed a bit harsh (either in terms of TH or taste) -- yet whenever my mother had to bum a cig from me, which she'd only do if she had no choice, she'd always complain about the lack of flavour and how she didn't feel anything (throat-wise).

Now, due to a relative's health issues as of late, she's mentioned quitting in a relatively serious way for the first time in my lifetime, but I doubt patches, gum or any of the other methods would work for her. Going cold turkey wouldn't last long either, I suspect.

So I was thinking about getting her to try out vaping.. But here's my problem: in order for me to convince her to switch, I need to find her a setup and an e-liquid that'll give her the same feeling she gets with her analogs -- ie, massive throat hit, adequate/moderate vapour production, and some flavour that aproximates that tarry mess she smokes.. Oh, no menthol or anything that goes too far away from what tobacco tastes like, at least to start with -- she's never been into that kind of stuff.

I gather PG is your friend when you want TH, correct? So going 100% PG would seem the way, but I get the feeling it still wouldn't do. Is there any e-liquid you know that can easily serve as a substitute for such a smoker? I could even get her a LR atty to punch up the flavour/TH and temp, and wouldn't mind doing her maintenance for her.. My hope is that she'd mellow out (in terms of flavour and TH) with time, especially when her long-lost diminuished sense of taste returned to "normal", but I need something with an extra kick to even have a hope of getting the foot in the door, so to speak.

Any suggestions?

 

[FreakyStylie]

My short answer would be not to rush it. Let her come to enjoy it. And give her tasty flavors so it will be easier to enjoy.

There will be a good flood of excellent information in addition to that.

Welcome to ECF, and good luck!

 

[Ed W]

Well PG does increase the throat hit but you also want the VG for the vapor so it looks like smoke too. But here is something to tell you Mom is to come out here read what others have said about how better they feel and how it has improved their life. Being able to breathe better and taste foods again.
Here is something I sent to my sister and got her to change cause Women love to save money LOL.

A pack of cigarettes cost around $5.50 USD not including tax.
1 cigarettes give about 10 drags
One cigarette is $0.275 USD
I smoked about 30 cigarettes a day so it cost $8.25 USD , $57.75 USD a week, $231.00 USD a month, $2772.00 USD a year.

A pack of electronic cigarettes would cost $0.32 USD
I buy ejuice at $10.00 USD each 30ml free shipping. I have 100+ diffrent ejuices flavors to choose from.
I figure a 30 ml bottle is equal to about 600 regular cigarettes or 6,000 puffs- or 30 packs of cigarettes at the cost of $10.00 USD.
So this would make the price of a electronic cigarettes at $0.016 USD each
Figuring off the 30 cigarette a day with the electronic cigarette it cost $0.48 USD, $3.36 USD a week, $13.44 USD a month, $161.28 USD a year.

You will also need a electronic cigarette
I have the VGO900 510 paid $52.00 USD
"The VGO900 510 has 2 rechargeable 900MaH battery's that last 8 to 14 hours each before needing recharged"

Overall figure in the first year regular cigarettes not including the cost of lighters is $2772.00 USD and the electronic cigarette including kit cost $213.28 USD. The Electronic cigarette saved $2558.72 USD

 

[Etch]

I believe you simply cant try to give someone the analog feel from a PV. Its a losing battle right from the start. No tobacco tastes like tobacco, nothign i have tried is close enough to an analog that i could recommend it. But! PV's are certainly capable of replacing it. Its not the same feel or effect...but still a fantastic replacement.

I agree with freakystylie - you cant rush it.

Really all you can do is present an option. For ultimate TH - get a mod - likely a cheap(ish) box mod - and a get a few flavours. A couple tobacco's and a couple of flavours she likes. Higher PG is a good idea, as is higher nic levels (speaking only about TH - otherwise, go with a nic level that works for her).

Present the option, and see where it goes.

That said - before buying anything - have her try yours!

 

[Sprint 1050]

Now, due to a relative's health issues as of late, she's mentioned quitting in a relatively serious way for the first time in my lifetime, but I doubt patches, gum or any of the other methods would work for her. Going cold turkey wouldn't last long either, I suspect.

Sounds like half the battle is won, i would simple offer the alternative. I am about to do the same with my sister. I got the 510 for her for Xmas.

 

[dormouse]

Pure PG can be a bit harsh and at the same time feel a bit thin to me. It would leave my tongue tingling after a while. I like 70pg/30vg and also ordered some 80pg/20vg. At some places like FreedomSmokeUSA and Gourmet Vapor you can choose 90PG/10VG. If you get the juices from US mixers (which is most of the PG/VG places) and you have time, leave them open overnight (pop out the dropper tip too) to steep and air just in case any need it. If they just got the flavorings in then sometimes the juice can smell or taste perfumey or wrong until you steep it.

Good luck!!

 

[BestLion]

Ed, yeah the economic reasons are just HUGE! the money i save alone each year from switching over I can go to Las Vegas for 7 days stay at the Golden Nugget (food-lodging-travel included) and have 1,000 bucks for the poker tables during that time.

 

[Exylos]

well the way I have been suggesting to people and so far everyone who has tried it was taken to it.

Make them a challenge, Buy them the High MG nicotine. I usually recommend pg, while it doesn't give as much vapor the throat hit tends to be the more convincing thing. Now that is not 100% but the majority the throat hit has been the throat hit, because PG doesn't give you a whole lot of Vaper, but it usually gives enough to look like a cigarettes. But challenge them to try it for one week and give them the advice to puff more if they crave, Have them start when they wake up the first day they have their pv, not the day they get it but the next day, so they have a full night of sleep between their last smoke, and the start of the pv, this way there is not exact comparison. There is at least a few hours between them.

But now here is the challenge tell them to try it for 1 week, if at the end of that week they do not feel better, breath better and taste better, they can always go back to smoking and what have they lost really in the attempt. This isn't perfect but in my experience it works majority of the time, of the 8 people I have gotten to try it only 1 had a complaint but after the first few days and hearing what the complaint was we switched him to VG and none of them have gone back.

Like i said no guarantees but this is how i have been doing it and it has worked, and its how i did it. Because from what I can tell from me after 20 years of smoking two packs a day, I switched over night, and that was how. But as someone else said, their desire to want a change is a big part of it.

 

[Virk]

Hi there, I have a story to share with everyone here that has resulted in several x-hardcore smokers converting to vaping, maybe this will help you as well.

First, I'm still a 'newb' and as you can see this is my first post, I've been too busy reading and researching here, no time to post until now.

I decided that after 30 years / 3.5 packs a day I was done, so 3 months ago i decided to give this a try and I went with blu cig 'cuz the advertising sold me and it seemed like it would be the closest thing to a real cig. It worked halfway and got me down to 1 pack/day in a week but I couldn't stop, the blu just wasn't strong enough and I was jonezin big time.

By the end of week one I was almost freaking out, it wasn't working, upgrade time. Also during this week I'm spending all my spare time researching and reading and watching all the videos and tutorials.

My first upgrade received in the 4th week, a 510 plus the extras, I got atomizers, cartridges, cartomizers, chargers, liquid, 'emergency' spares for everything, lol I went all out, gonna make this happen. And it did! On the 3rd day of using a 510 and being smoke free I decided to show it to my mother who has smoked for at least 45 years. I gave her a blu kit, taught her how to use it, clean it, maintain it and explained all the stuff about ecigs etc and just said check it out for a few days and see how it is. (I did, after all, have a boatload of blu cig stuff that wasn't being used).

So a week goes by and I check up on her, same results as with myself, it helped but not enough. Well, I have spares! Hooked her up with a 510 and the joye cartomizer, simple is good, her first drag and she's got this surprised expression on her face and spits out 'holy crap this works!' Ok that was two months ago, I've had ZERO analogs since then and she's had 6.

What I think helped the most is all the information and the people here at ecf, prolly the biggest support group I've ever seen in my life lol. I took this info and shared it with everyone I know, especially my mom, literally hours teaching her how to care for her new toys etc. Blew me away, she actually enjoys refilling her cartomizers haha! Did someone say mods? She's now making lanyards and cases for the rest of the family that also smokes.

Besides the information, specifically, the product(s) that made this work successfully for me, my mom, and now my two sisters as well, are the specific cartomizers I chose. Let me explain, I've tried them all now except the e2-r4 which is on order, and most just don't cut it, they're just too mellow, no throat hit, too messy, expectations not met etc. And the hassle involved with using an atomizer and cartridge - just doesn't last long enough for me. Luckily I did go all out and got a few of everything and found that the 510 titan/tornado prefilled cartomizer from totally wicked had a very nice throat hit. I believe it's the joye cart, all black, refillable, cheap, lasts about a week before you just gotta toss it. You feel it when you hit these and you don't have to hit them hard at all.

I don't think the liquid is as important, I picked up several types from several places per reviews I've read and Johnsons Creek works for me, but I also just got a shipment from china that works, just usa mix since the object so far has been to replace analogs. The strength is likely a big factor, I chose to go with a lower dose of 18mg, it's worked pretty good but I think stronger would have made it even easier. Keep in mind, I was a chain smoker, so I figured I better not go too strong. I started with all VG, love that vapor, and vapor is also very important but PG and throat hit is also required, yep, mix it up 50/50 works for me.

Flavor, since you asked, I use whatever is close to a regular marlboro and then add another flavor or two to spice it up a bit. I've found the chocolate / honey / caramel / coffee / mesquite to work very well and just give you a slight amount of sweetness. I have found so far that no hard core smokers like any of the non tobacco flavors during the first week or so, they are looking for that 'real' taste. But I'm definitely no expert, just sharing my experience so far. Personally for myself, I gotta have menthol.

The battery size of the 510 is close enough to an analog that it can easily replicate the habit, which is extremely important. The life of the 510 is not so great for a chain smoker so have a truckload of spares...I figure I used 6-8 a day haha, yeah I have since upgraded again to a few EGO's and that's my final ticket. My mom however, loves her 510's, chargers, mini bottles I keep her supplied with, plastic needle syringes for refilling and of course all the mods you can dream up... custom boxes, bags, pouches, lanyards, all of which she now makes. I guess what I'm getting at is that it has turned into a hobby and a major accomplishment to be proud of.

On Thanksgiving I gave 510 sets to each of my sisters (early xmas, no reason to wait). It appears that they are now converts as well and have asked for more stuff. Now mom has more projects and crafts to build for xmas hehe. This will for the first time in my life be an entirely smoke free xmas at my house with the entire family, about half of whom will be vaping!

I first saw an e-cig about a year ago at a cigarrette shop for $99.00 and I didn't try it 'cuz yeah right how much? lmao. What if it sucks? I'm out 2 cartons haha. Now that prices have settled, reviews are out, and I finally got sick of smoking I looked again and took that chance. Well here I am, smokefree for 7 weeks yesterday! Nope, I have not saved a dime yet but I do have a new interesting hobby lolol. I figure that now that I've run out of family members to buy kits for, I should start saving money after xmas, errr, and after the new clearomizers (e2-r4) and...

One more thing I'd like to mention, use the resources here, educate yourself about smoking, nicotine, vaping, everything. There's so much info here from so many helpful people and a lot of it is entertaining. Above this thread in the sticky's is a good set of tutorials for broke newbies by MistressNomad, she rocks!

Thanks ECF posters for everything!

Virk

 

[Chacha]

Hiya,
first of all good for you for helping your Mum, smoking is a horrible thing to quit and vaping makes it soooo much easier! My habit was 20+ years, pack a day, erk...Mum was a 40+ year, pack and a half a day habit. we tried everything from mind melting meds to hypnosis, it was the vaping that worked. I started with the 510 kit and switched to the Riva within the week, I started Mum on the Riva as I thought the 510 may not have been strong enough for her.
My way to "mimic" the habit is this:
I found the best ecig to use was a RIVA but you can also use an EGO, T-REX, anything around the 3.7V, 650mah+ mark, this teamed up with a soft top 510 cartomiser works great, now before everyone goes, wtf? I have been researching this for a while to help my Mum, she wouldnt quit otherwise and she loves this set up, the cartomiser "gets quite warm" just like cigarettes and the heat from the internal atty produces a warm vapor, similar to that of cigarette smoke. If your Mum is stressed that these ecigs dont "look" like real cigs the white 510 mega kit could work too(has the orange light at the end).

As far as ejuice is concerned try a PG80%-VG20% mix,you get the good throat hit from the PG and good clouds from the VG. The Marlboro Red was the first flavour i tried and it was great at first, ive since moved onto making my own with mainly caramel and biscuit flavours(with 4mg nicotine) as they are not overly sweet and still give a great throat hit. Your Mum may need a relatively high dose of nicotine to "mimic" smoking, i would probably talk to suppliers on how much your Mum will need.

Mum still has days where she could "kill" for a cigarette but shes hanging in there, Im so proud, its the first time Mums ever stayed off the analogs for so long, two months this week! I hope your Mum gives vaping a go, I hope she will grow to love it. There is one huge thing though, I had to learn patience, good luck to you and your Mum.
Cheers
Cha

 

[BestLion]

Virk thanks for the great write up.. Wow 3.5 packs a day! that is serious!

 

[enree]

I would not advise anyone to vape unless its in his agenda. A person has his own opinion. Just vape before then and give them the impression that you are satisfied with your set. I know someone thats a complete noob. He tried the ecig. Drag in too strong and quick that it does't work at all. Some are born to vaping, some simply don't.

 

[Spoomsister]

I had been a pack and a half a day smoker for the last ten years, been smoking for 20 years. Picked up a PV to SUPPLEMENT my smoking, and haven't touched an analog since the day my 510 got here. I feel soooo much better, but I do crave an analong here and there, but it's not to the point where I get all frustrated and bi&^hy. )

 

[Beachlover]

I love the KR808D-1...I have smoked for 45 years at 2-3 packs a day. I own several different types including the Riva etc. but the KR808D-1 is the only one for me that replicates real smoking. The only reason I think about having an analog is because I know that I am not...not that I really crave one.

 

[chasingcars0511]

I second the KR808. The Kamel Menthol carts from V4L are very close to the real thing and I was able to drop a pack a day habit almost overnight. Several weeks in, now I find that I like the fruity flavors a lot more and I think I will be giving Ms. T's a try.

 

[markfm]

For strength, a KR808D-1 (808) at 3.7 - 3.8V gives more hit, hotter, than any of the 510/eGo/Riva, unless you go moderately LR, 2ohms. It's just physics.

808 is also simple in that you can start a person with pre-filled cartomizers, huge array available.

The 510/eGo/Riva family are excellent, many love them, but if you want simple, an 808 with pre-filled cartos is a good thing. For a heavy smoker I'd get a kit with what are called the XL or Mega batteries, the 380 mAh version, and/or a pass-through. A couple of 5 packs of cartos, at 18 and 24 mg strength, and one pack of either 12 or 36 mg (12 if they smoke lights, 36 if they smoke full strength cigarettes) should allow her to figure out which strength she needs to fight nic cravings.

(The above is what I've done with friends, including other really long-term heavy smokers, who needed something simple to use.)

 

[Telynau]

Hello Snowball. Thank you for starting this thread! I was wondering along the same lines for my baby brother =}. who's been smoking for 30+ years.

Congratulations on your transition to vaping. This may be the biggest step your Mother will see, first-hand, and give her an "idea of her own" to try it, too.

 

[Snowball]

Thank you all for your input. I'm not planning to force or push anything onto her, just thought I might as well take this chance since it's the first time ever that my mother mentioned quitting of her own volition -- heck, she used to ask me to quit and I'd always say (and mean it) "Ok, I'll quit if you quit with me, let's do it together and finally make this a smoke-free environment for dad (who's never smoked in his life, but has suffered to 2nd-hand smoking for many years)", and she'd always chicken out.

The reason I asked about a suitable replacement to her nasty analogs was so I could present her with something that, at least to start with, wouldn't be too far away from the satisfaction she derives from smoking: the nicotine "fix", the throat hit, a bit of smoke (her analogs don't produce that much visible smoke) and that tarry tobacco flavour. She's never been a fan of sweets, nor of any exotic-tasting gum/food.. She's more partial to sour, actually, so I doubt anything fruity/sweet would motivate her to keep vaping.

Put in other words, I'm just looking for something that can get her "hooked", a sort of "gateway e-liquid" to vaping, as I'm sure that if she sticks with it and her sense of taste returns to normal after all these years, she'll probably warm up to other mixes (probably even detest a stronger tobacco taste). But to start with, I have to present her with a hassle-free experience that at least partially emulates her analogs. Don't know if the color will be a factor for her, but that's easily solved. Cartomizers, at least to start with, sound like the best bet, and a form-factor close to analogs (did I mention her analogs are tiny compared to just about any other brand?).

KR808 or 510 with cartomizers, 80%PG (or the full 100%), and either the 555 or Marlboro flavour is what I'm thinking at the moment.

 

[markfm]

That sounds like a solid approach.

If she smokes something with a hard tobacco flavor, you might want to look for kamel or dunhall tobacco flavors, they have a pretty firm taste.

 

[zakk]

there are just some people that seem to be technophobic and just cant wrap their head around the idea. You wouldn't believe how hard it is to convince alot of older smokers in the family that there are actually health benefits to vaping over smoking. It's sad.