Advocating reasonable laws for e-cigarettes

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Surf Monkey

Cartel Boss
ECF Veteran
May 28, 2009
3,958
104,307
Sesame Street
Just a quick comment on the whole flavor issue...

Is strawberry lube made for kids?

Because that's gross.

Perfect example. This "flavors are for kids" argument gets deep under my skin. It's so obviously rhetorical that it's just pathetic. It's designed to appeal to the passive observer who has no understanding of the topic and it's pushed by people who should know better.
 

runninlater

Full Member
ECF Veteran
Mar 21, 2009
63
4
USA ~ Colorado
Mr. Godshall,

I am wholeheartedly weary of the words "ban" and "restrict" used continuously by our government in what is supposed to be the legendary land of freedom.

I will support any level of legislation banning the sale and marketing of e-cigs to minors.
I will not support any level of legislation banning the use of e-cigs by adults.
*************************************************************

Good Luck Long Island Vapors - speak truth to power - as usual the "power" seems to be confused.
 
I posted my rant on the comment page for the article, and reading the other posts was hopeful, it seems those who cared enough to comment actually knew the truth. The comments were generally eloquent and heartfelt. :)


I saw :) And apparently so did the people at the website...

They emailed me and asked if Long Island Vapers Club would like to write a factual article and have it posted (I said in my comment I wished they would let me do that... so they did!). I am working on the article now... but since we are meeting with Cooper in the morning I do not want to post something which puts his ignorance of the subject on display while there is still a chance we can change his mind by educating him and making him aware of the facts.

So... we are going to try to educate him tomorrow and if he cannot understand... then we will post our own article and I will issue a press release next week to the news stations explaining the FACTS that refute the made-up crap they said in that article lol!
 

Bill Godshall

Executive Director<br/> Smokefree Pennsylvania
ECF Veteran
Apr 2, 2009
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Just to clarify my posting yesterday, employers and managers of public places already have a legal right to prohibit employees and customers from using e-cigarettes in their facilities (just as managements have a legal right to prohibit customers from using a cell phone or from swearing in their facilities, and just as managements have a legal right to require customers to wear shirts, shoes, ties, jackets, etc.).

By urging Suffolk County officials to amend the proposed ordinance (from banning e-cigarettes everywhere smoking is now banned to just banning the use of e-cigarettes in locations where employers or management have adopted a policy banning their use), the new ordinance would have virtually no impact on e-cigarette use, while giving Suffolk County officials a face saving way to congratulate themselves for protecting public health, and while making e-cigarette marketers and users appear as responsible and respectful.
 
Just to clarify my posting yesterday, employers and managers of public places already have a legal right to prohibit employees and customers from using e-cigarettes in their facilities (just as managements have a legal right to prohibit customers from using a cell phone or from swearing in their facilities, and just as managements have a legal right to require customers to wear shirts, shoes, ties, jackets, etc.).

By urging Suffolk County officials to amend the proposed ordinance (from banning e-cigarettes everywhere smoking is now banned to just banning the use of e-cigarettes in locations where employers or management have adopted a policy banning their use), the new ordinance would have virtually no impact on e-cigarette use, while giving Suffolk County officials a face saving way to congratulate themselves for protecting public health, and while making e-cigarette marketers and users appear as responsible and respectful.

I did make a note of that when I read your original post Bill. We were informed by another legislator that this is all about "looking good" during an election time (when Cooper is looking at a higher office for a position) and I realized that is what you were getting at. We will keep that in the forefront of our minds at our meeting with Cooper tomorrow.. we will suggest that and will let you know how it goes!
 

Cancer

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Apr 15, 2009
636
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50
New Jersey
We need to keep the Legislation,specifically at the age requirements to sell and purchase. Any attempt to put E-smoking into the tobacco Smoking realm is the death nell for us. If i am put into a smoking trailer again, i may lose my steam to keep analog free. Would you put an alcoholic who has a alcoholic supplement vaporizer and confine them to BARS and nightclubs???? We are vaping 4 of the 4000 chemicals analog smoker expel and inhale, WHERE IS THE SYMETRY? Go to this meeting PLEASE and help us and our loved one's STAY SMOKEFREE in PA,NJ and NY:)
 

eplanet

Unregistered Supplier
ECF Veteran
Hello all,

Glad to see spikey and dw back...

Mr Godshall,

Thank you for showing interest in our local situation. We would like to work closer with you and your advice is greatly appreciated. I have pm'd you a few weeks ago when I made my original post about the local ban:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...island-banning-e-cig-please-watch-urgent.html
I do not know if you received the pm, is there another way to contact you?
are you interested in assisting our cause? please pm me with the proper contact information.

Thank you,
Josh
 

PrairieJim

Full Member
Jun 19, 2009
11
0
Just because they don’t contain tobacco, don’t be fooled into believing e-cigarettes are safe. Manufacturers of these devices still have not subjected them to independent, peer-reviewed, scientific examination.
A known neurotoxin, nicotine is also one of the most highly addictive substances available for public consumption. More lethal than strychnine, just 60 milligrams of nicotine on the tongue —about three drops—is enough to kill a 160 pound person. In contrast: The lethal dose for strychnine is 75 mg, for diamondback rattlesnake venom it’s 100 mg, you’d need to ingest 200 mg of arsenic to do somebody in, and Cyanide's lethal dose is 500 mg.

The same can be said for other legal stimulants such as caffine, over the counter drugs such as tylonol, asprin, and cough medicines.

Then there are regular grocery items such as mouthwash, lysol disinfetant cleaners, glues, paint, gasoline, paint thinners, and a long long list of other things that, when abused, or concentrated, can be lethal.

Does this mean the government should tax the crap out of vertually everything?

Of course not. And this goes for E cigarettes as well. Nicotine is already approved for human consumption by the government health department. We can buy all the cigarettes we want, as long as we pay the rediculous taxes on them. Along with the nicotine they contain, they contain about 4000 other toxins the government appoves fit for human consuption. In fact a lot of these toxins are added, they don't occure naturally in the tobacco plant.

As for the other ingredient that produces the vapor from electronic vaporizers, is food grade glycerol, which is also appoved by the government for human consumption in a wide variety of ways, including the inhaling of vaors produced from it, such as vicks cold remedies used in vaporizers, medical applications which use glicerol as the base to disperse medicines in resperators.

There is NOTHING in an e cigarette vaporizor that requires ANY government review and approval. it is already done.

Since there is NO tobbacco product all, the government has nothing to regulate, nothing that is of any health concern or risk for which the nanny state feels it must place additional tax on for our own good (yeah right, as if taxes on cigarettes were EVER for our own good).

The government must not be allowed to regulate or tax in any way the sale and use of e cigarette type vaporizers.
We must if neccessary, organize and hire legal assistance to argue these points, and prevent the government from illegally taxing products to protect revenues from other unfairly (and Illegally in my opinion) taxed addictive substances, namely tobbacco and alcohol.

Where will it end if we don't? What's next? Coffee? Too much coffee is shown to be a health risk. Shouldn't the government be taxing that more for our own good?

At least e cigarette type vaporizors have no known health risks, and offer a safe, alternative way for people to recieve their needed doses of nicotine which the government has allowed them to become addicted to.

I have never heard of a single person who bought a e cigarette who was a non- smoker. Every single person I know has bought a vaporizer to get away from the unhealthy nicotine delivery system supported and promoted by the government. So the arguement that people will become addicted to nicotine using this product is rediculous.

Even if a non-smoker did become a user, there are plenty of better, more flavorfull e-liquids that would be preferable to any that contained nicotine. They wouldn't want nor like the liquids containing nicotine and taste like a crappy cigarette. Only people addicted to the nicotine and habit of cigarette smoking want and need something than can relieve the nicotine habit, and help them break the habits associated with cigarette smoking.

If this government were truely concerned about our health, and wanted to see that percentage of the cigarette smoking population that simply cannot kick the addiction and habits of cigarette smoking, they would welcome whole heartedly this tool that has shown the greastest hope yet in enabling the cigarette addict to overcome their addiction and finally, after so many failed attempts and wasted money on useless smoking ceasation aids the government promotes.

The government response to this product however, has revealed the governments true adgenda, tax revenue through controlled addictive substances.They don't want to see people quit smoking tobacco.

So now the government is stalling for time, time it needs to figure out how to add another already approved for human consumption product, nicotine to the sin tax list, which they thought they had securred through the anti tobacco campaigns and bogus health risk claims through which they justified unfair unreasonable and rediculously high taxation.

The problem is, nicotine does not pose any health risks. It is freely available now and inhaled. The nicotine poisoning concerns they are now trying desperately to raise simply do not exist, and are no more likely to with the use of e liquids containing nicotine, as they are with the purchace of a package of cigarettes which contains many times over a lethal dose of nicotine.

Therefore, this must be fought openly in the courts if the government is foolish enough to pursue this course.

It is easily proved that e cigarrette users have drastically reduced or even quit altogether cigarette smoking, and as a result reduced significantly their health risks, and cost to the health care system resulting from their cigarette habits. They have improved their health, finally stopped that persistant cigarette cough. Many have also eliminated their nicotine addiction as well, and now "vape" non- nicotine containing e liquids, which poses no risk to their health whatsoever. The only damage e cigarettes cause is damage to reckless and wastefull government spending, and the threat to the anti-smoking empire it has built up and enriched political pals with, all at our expence and risk to our health.
 

ashdaburned

Senior Member
Jun 21, 2009
73
0
Fort Worth, Tx
What is really annoying to me is a keep hearing about this "It tastes good so it must be kid friendly" I'm 25 years old and have been smoking for 10 years. I did not start smoking analog's for the taste. In fact i despised the taste at first, yet i still continued, as I'm sure millions of other teens that start smoking have done. Honestly i don't think anyone started smoking for the taste. If someone is going to start doing it they will do it regardless. Most people who do not drink alcohol don't do it because they just don't want to. I can make a drink strong enough to get a first timer drunk without them even know alcohol is it. They still don't want to drink. Someone who is not going to smoke is not going to smoke, regardless of how it tastes. Therefore them saying you can smoke it but it can't taste good is BS. If they really just want to ban cigs then they should just every year raise the legal age limit until eveyone who smokes now is dead. Problem solved.
 

waveho

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Jun 23, 2009
90
0
I think there are two separate regulatory issues here--the e-cig itself and the e-liquid. The e-cig, at its core, is a very simple device. One would be hard-put to declare it a pharmaceutical device, though the FDA is seemingly hell-bent on making this determination. I think the FDA regulating the basic e-cig would be akin to them trying to regulate cigarette rolling paper or even a computer usb-port--too hard to be worth the effort perhaps. The key issue is the e-liquid--without which the e-cig is basically a "thumb-heater." I'm all for realistic, logical regulation and quality control of what goes into the smoke juice. This is what we take into our bodies and lungs, and while clearly safer than inhaling nasty tobacco smoke...it's still not healthier than neither vaping nor smoking. Again, I'm all for reasonable regulation and even legislation...but when was the last time we saw such a thing? I'm not too optimistic that cool and clear heads will prevail....
 

aditas

Moved On
Jul 5, 2009
81
0
I disagree. I feel advisory stamps such as "FDA approved" should not be compulsory. If a supplier wishes to get the FDA stamp of approval then so be it. They should buy the red tape and and reap the benefits that comes along with it. I still see no reason to pull non-FDA approved liquids from the market.

I as a consumer will make my own choice between FDA approved and bare liquids.
 

robbiehatfield

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
May 10, 2009
129
1
I understand the argument you're making and I agree that if the devices are going to be legislated (inevitable) we should be at the forefront of advocating for rational laws that support the reasonable use of the device rather than blanket bans.

But this quote just infuriates me:

“These devices combine the appeal of an iPod with that of candy cigarettes. But they also have the potential to create a life-long addiction to nicotine,” says Cooper. “They’re just too dangerous to be left unrestricted. I certainly wouldn’t want my kids to be able to get their hands on them.”

That's the boilerplate anti-smoking ideology being articulated by someone who obviously knows nothing about e-cigarettes. We need to fight that kind of ignorance wherever we see it because it's out there now and being spread by an increasing number of public officials. For a lot of people, the first exposure they get to e-cigarettes is going to be a quote like that one, and as we all know, first impressions can be very hard to reverse.


Tell me about it. The FDA has been very effective in fear mongering too. I now have the smokers at work telling me I'd better watch what I'm doing after they heard about the FDA report in the news. The smart ones, however, see through the BS when I explain the details having read the report myself in its entirety.

Robbie
 
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