Air flow driven device.

[mcclintock]

I've never heard of such a device. I'm not even sure what you mean by that. I vape MTL style and once I find a wattage that suits me (for any particular atty and coil), my draws are always consistent, so I'm not sure I understand your problem.


This sounds more like chain-vaping and is generally not advised. Your coil needs a bit of time between draws to cool down, so most of us have at least 2 or 3 devices in constant rotation, but I never had to concentrate on the speed of my draw. I just--draw. Sorry I can't be of more help.

Any decent device should accommodate chain vaping to some extent. If there is an issue though, it is due to wicking needing a time to recover, or perhaps the whole atomizer getting hot. There is no need for the coil to cool down because heating is what it does.

Temp control will help with occasionally vaping outside of target, but is a protection not a regulation and isn't really designed to adapt to different vaping styles automatically. I had an idea I mentioned a few times where you might have a dual action fire button, press hard and it goes into big rip mode.

It's also possible to modulate power with the fire button, on a long drag release the button a half second every couple of seconds, but it still doesn't allow a large difference in draw intensity.

 

[Stew1957]

Any decent device should accommodate chain vaping to some extent. If there is an issue though, it is due to wicking needing a time to recover, or perhaps the whole atomizer getting hot. There is no need for the coil to cool down because heating is what it does.

Temp control will help with occasionally vaping outside of target, but is a protection not a regulation and isn't really designed to adapt to different vaping styles automatically. I had an idea I mentioned a few times where you might have a dual action fire button, press hard and it goes into big rip mode.

It's also possible to modulate power with the fire button, on a long drag release the button a half second every couple of seconds, but it still doesn't allow a large difference in draw intensity.

Thanks very much. It's something I have been doing and it works very well. Controling the temp or output by manually pulsing the fire button. Just getting into the habit of remembering to do it is a bit of a learning process.
Thanks again.

 

[Stew1957]

@Stew1957 ...

Probably not much help as I have not used them for years... but back in late 2016 when I ran on a ZA forum I bought six Serpent Mini's (three 22mm and three 25mm). They were short lived in my vape kit though as I ran many others, and especially had a half dozen specific ones that I liked much better than any of the others (Geek Vape Avocado's... three 22's and three 24's). I mostly ran the Serpents on TC mods (but not in TC mode)... Sig 213's, Minikin 120W and 150W, Snow Wolf Mini's, etc.

Unfortunately my data base doesn't have ALL the details of how I built/ran them. But from what is in it my builds in the 22's was mostly 26ga 2.5mm coils in the 0.5Ω range, and in the 25's 24ga & 26ga 3.5mm coils in the 0.18Ω-0.36Ω range. I used N80 wire in them. The wattage ran at depended on which of the dozens of DIY liquids I made that I ran in them, and the mod they were on. But typically in the 25W-55W range. I was a DL vaper that took long pulls to fill my lungs completely. HTH.

Serpents on Sigs View attachment 901115 Sepent on Minikin View attachment 901117

Thanks very much. It is all a learning curve for me and all input helps.

 

[Hawise]

Temp control will help with occasionally vaping outside of target, but is a protection not a regulation and isn't really designed to adapt to different vaping styles automatically. I had an idea I mentioned a few times where you might have a dual action fire button, press hard and it goes into big rip mode.

I know that some people use TC as you describe - protection from a dry hit or other unusual circumstances - but there are also many of us who use it to regulate temperature quite successfully.

 

[Katya]

There is no need for the coil to cool down

Oh but there is. If you keep our finger on the fire button (or chain vape excessively), the temperature of the coil will keep increasing quickly--by hundreds of degrees. And unless you take your finger off that button and let the coil cool down, the coil will overheat and eventually pop--no amount of fast wicking or airflow will help with that. That's why TC was invented. BTW, Brandon calls it temperature limitation, not control, because we can't control coils' temperature--we can only limit it.

Back in the dark ages of vaping, when cartomizer coils were made of 32-34g NiCr wire, we were frequently warned not to take draws longer than 5 sec to avoid the danger of burning the filler and/or popping the coil.

 

[Opinionated]

Nvm...

 

[pwmeek]

I am puzzled by a couple of things in this thread: You mentioned that you are vaping 18 mg/ml ejuice. This suggests that you are vaping primarily for the nicotine. Also taking repeated puffs "like a cigarette".

Then you describe your atomizers as super high surface area (Clapton wire). These are commonly used to maximize the volume of visible vapor, and usually used with minimal nicotine (0 to 3 mg/ml).

These seem to me to be contradictory goals, unless I am misunderstanding you. I am wondering whether you have been trying to increase the amount of nicotine you are taking in by using high-area coils. If so, the solution may be to increase the strength of your ejuice rather than increase the amount of ejuice vaporized.

I used to be a 4 pack a day smoker, and was barely able to quit with the old stick batteries (button operated, in my case) and 36 mg/ml cartos (small, throw-away, pre-filled atomizers). I had to chain-vape to get enough nicotine, and had to rotate between three rigs because chain vaping on a single rig would get it so hot that it burned my lips and fingers, as well as cooking the ejuice and clogging the wick with burnt juice. Once I learned about better mods and better atomizers and tanks I still had to rotate between three rigs to keep them cool enough.

Then I began mixing my own ejuice (DIY). This was the breakthrough. After reading an article by Dr. Farsalinos (a leading EC and nicotine researcher) I mixed some at 48-50 mg/ml and immediately saw a reduction in how often I felt the need for another puff (actually series of puffs). So much so, that I found I was using about half the amount of ejuice per day, when I might have expected a 25 or 30% reduction. This meant that I was actually using less nicotine per day to get the same satisfaction.

Once I realized that I had decreased my daily nicotine intake, I began experimenting with stronger and stronger ejuices. I mixed 60, 70, 80, and even vaped 100 mg/ml ejuice (10% nicotine) for a couple of weeks. I kept track of how much ejuice I was using each day and discovered that my daily nicotine intake was lowest at the 60 and 70 mg/ml strengths, so I began mixing my ejuice at 65 mg/ml (6.5% nicotine), and have been doing so ever since. My daily intake dropped from around 250 mg/day (with 36 mg/ml) to 125 (at 50 mg/ml) and finally to 85-90 mg/day with my current 65 mg/ml.

As an added benefit, I now have both hands available most of the time (which I never had while chain vaping or chain smoking) and I can easily go for 30 minutes to several hours between series of puffs. I even get a semblance of the "rush" I used to get with that first cigarette in the morning. It's slower and milder, but it's there. (I use simple TC mods at 225˚C/430˚F with tanks and factory coils.)

=======
For the record, there were (maybe still are) such things as air flow controlled devices. Years ago (stick battery days), many of those sticks were buttonless. To fire them you just drew. They were controlled by a microphone which listened for the hiss of air moving through the air intake. (They could be "fooled" into firing by high-frequency ambient noise such as radio static which is why I didn't like them.) I believe there are still some buttonless devices that probably operate the same way. However, I've never heard of a rig that changed characteristics (such as wattage) depending on how hard or how often you drew. (TC simply shuts off momentarily when the coil gets over a pre-set temperature.)

 

[Stew1957]

Hi @pwmeek , please remember I have only been vaping for about six weeks, and most likely would not have started if it were not for the ban of tobacco products in my country in a curb to stop the spread of the Covid-19 virus as there were fears that people habitually sharing cigarettes would pass the virus around with the spittle on the cigarette butts. Certain things have been easier and less expensive to obtain "Illegally" than others in liquid form than analogue form.
I therefore bought my first device not knowing anything about Vaping what so ever. I was then given a Serpent Mini with a spool of wire and some cotton by a fellow vaper that I described previously as my build of coil. I know nothing about the properties of the different wires. I am not chain Vaping and only pick up my device every fifteen minutes or so apart and take a few draws on it and put it down again much as one would light a cigarette and put it in the ashtray to basically smoulder away. maybe getting a few more draws on it before it burns out. Sure you will be familiar with the scenario.
I am probably just trying to replicate the above with a Vaping device.
1 am smoking freebase at 18 mg and 50/50 and it is actually fine for me I think? LOL.
"These seem to me to be contradictory goals, unless I am misunderstanding you. I am wondering whether you have been trying to increase the amount of nicotine you are taking in by using high-area coils. If so, the solution may be to increase the strength of your ejuice rather than increase the amount of ejuice vaporized." I don't have enough knowledge of vaping to have been doing as mentioned in this statement.
Your figures of nicotine variations you tried are really interesting but I am hoping to stay at 18 mg or less to satisfy my needs. My first batch of nicotine was 18 mg nic salts and honestly I cant differentiate between the two as to satisfaction and I was told (Maybe incorrectly) on should not sub ohm nic salts so my next batch I ordered was free base.
I appears the problem is my vaping style in so far as I don't have a style. Sometimes I pick up my device and want a slow draw and sometimes I want a fast draw, but in either scenario I would like a nice flavour without things getting to hot on a slow draw or being flavourless on a fast draw.
Any recommendations on coil material etc will be welcome as will be anything else you suggest.
Thanks so much for taking the time to help me out.

 

[Mordacai]

@Stew1957, the finer higher gauge complex wire is fine to use for MTL. The issue here is I think that some folks aren't aware of this, as they probably think it's the same as heavy gauge complex DTL competion type wire.

And Salts and Freebase can be both used for really cloudy DTL, you just have to reduce the strength measured in mg/ml to a more appropriate level due to the amount of vapour that is produced. But I have heard of folks using 12 mg/ml for DTL, which is interesting. I'd say 6 mg/ml or less for DTL was more realistic and useable, I myself use 3 mg/ml for DTL.

 

[pwmeek]

<snip> I am not chain Vaping and only pick up my device every fifteen minutes or so apart and take a few draws on it and put it down again much as one would light a cigarette and put it in the ashtray to basically smoulder away. maybe getting a few more draws on it before it burns out. Sure you will be familiar with the scenario.
I am probably just trying to replicate the above with a Vaping device.
<snip>
I appears the problem is my vaping style in so far as I don't have a style. Sometimes I pick up my device and want a slow draw and sometimes I want a fast draw, but in either scenario I would like a nice flavour without things getting to hot on a slow draw or being flavourless on a fast draw.
<snip>

Considering that it used to take me about 7 or 8 minutes to smoke a cigarette (I, too, smoked unfiltered), I would jokingly say that one series every 15 minutes is about "half-chain-vaping". If you smoked that way, you were probably using in the neighborhood of 150 mg of nicotine per day. This is hard to duplicate at 18 mg/ml. You must feel vaguely uneasy most of the time, as I did when trying to quit smoking with 36 mg/ml.

What seems to satisfy is not so much the absolute nicotine level in the bloodstream as the sudden change in level. It's hard to get that sudden change if you need to take a half dozen puffs to get it. A couple puffs of higher strength works better (for me, at least).

As for wanting a device that performs well with either a slow draw or a hard draw, the advice given by several people as to TC devices seems like the solution. They basically work by automatically interrupting the power to the coil to prevent it from getting hot enough to burn the juice or give a dry hit. I need that myself.

 

[Stew1957]

@pwmeek , thanks. Looks like I am going to learn about TC now.

 

[Stew1957]

@Stew1957, the finer higher gauge complex wire is fine to use for MTL. The issue here is I think that some folks aren't aware of this, as they probably think it's the same as heavy gauge complex DTL competion type wire.

And Salts and Freebase can be both used for really cloudy DTL, you just have to reduce the strength measured in mg/ml to a more appropriate level due to the amount of vapour that is produced. But I have heard of folks using 12 mg/ml for DTL, which is interesting. I'd say 6 mg/ml or less for DTL was more realistic and useable, I myself use 3 mg/ml for DTL.

Thank you for all the help once again. Would you give some number suggestions to look out for in a wire you think would be suitable. Don't know if you are allowed to specify a brand name. ie. Stainless-Steel-Wire-316L 24awg xx xx

 

[Mordacai]

These are probably your best resources then @Stew1957, depending upon what you can get hold of.

Coilology Official-The Best Vape Coil Manufacturer

MTL Staple Spool 10ft
MTL Fused Clapton spool 10ft
MTL Clapton Spools vape wires 10ft for RTA vape pod & starter kits

Vape Wires | VANDY VAPE® Full Steam Ahead

Mesh Coil
MTL wire series
SS316L-Wires

nexMESH Mesh Coil 10pcs

And for MTL, Id say that no lower than 27 to 26 at the most for simple round Stainless Steel wire. As SS does have a lower resistance and the lower the gauge the thicker the wire and the lower the resistance.

And here's a wire gauge chart that may be very useful.

As you can see. As the wire gauge number goes down, the thickness or diameter increases.

 

[Stew1957]

Hi @Mordacai , Thanks very much. you have been amazing in helping me. Best regards from Stew.

 

[Mordacai]

No worries @Stew1957, but I forgot to mention that if you can get hold fo simple round stainless steel wire from anywhere else it'll be fine.

 

[Opinionated]

Hi @pwmeek , please remember I have only been vaping for about six weeks, and most likely would not have started if it were not for the ban of tobacco products in my country in a curb to stop the spread of the Covid-19 virus as there were fears that people habitually sharing cigarettes would pass the virus around with the spittle on the cigarette butts. Certain things have been easier and less expensive to obtain "Illegally" than others in liquid form than analogue form.
I therefore bought my first device not knowing anything about Vaping what so ever. I was then given a Serpent Mini with a spool of wire and some cotton by a fellow vaper that I described previously as my build of coil. I know nothing about the properties of the different wires. I am not chain Vaping and only pick up my device every fifteen minutes or so apart and take a few draws on it and put it down again much as one would light a cigarette and put it in the ashtray to basically smoulder away. maybe getting a few more draws on it before it burns out. Sure you will be familiar with the scenario.
I am probably just trying to replicate the above with a Vaping device.
1 am smoking freebase at 18 mg and 50/50 and it is actually fine for me I think? LOL.
"These seem to me to be contradictory goals, unless I am misunderstanding you. I am wondering whether you have been trying to increase the amount of nicotine you are taking in by using high-area coils. If so, the solution may be to increase the strength of your ejuice rather than increase the amount of ejuice vaporized." I don't have enough knowledge of vaping to have been doing as mentioned in this statement.
Your figures of nicotine variations you tried are really interesting but I am hoping to stay at 18 mg or less to satisfy my needs. My first batch of nicotine was 18 mg nic salts and honestly I cant differentiate between the two as to satisfaction and I was told (Maybe incorrectly) on should not sub ohm nic salts so my next batch I ordered was free base.
I appears the problem is my vaping style in so far as I don't have a style. Sometimes I pick up my device and want a slow draw and sometimes I want a fast draw, but in either scenario I would like a nice flavour without things getting to hot on a slow draw or being flavourless on a fast draw.
Any recommendations on coil material etc will be welcome as will be anything else you suggest.
Thanks so much for taking the time to help me out.

Hey... have you tried a pod? You might like a pod device similar to the Vinci Air. It's draw activated and is more cigarette-like in that it's draw activated and much smaller than a full sized mod...

The flavor is not as good in these smaller pods, but most commercially made juices that have strong flavor, like menthol or fruits, still come through fine. (Subtler flavors like custards or bakery won't come through as well)

These pods are less expensive, so easier on the wallet to try and see if you like them. They are also designed to use higher levels of nicotine in them (like your 18mg).

You may enjoy the ease of them as well... although you will have to source coils for them periodically. What country are you in?

 

[PeterKay]

But I have heard of folks using 12 mg/ml for DTL, which is interesting.

I started DTL with 14mg at around 60W few weeks after giving up smoking. I'm now down to 5-6mg in weaker setups (50-70W) and 3-4mg in more poweful setups (70-110W).
Initially all was great, for like a month or 6 weeks, and high nic consumption really helped with cravings, but I started cutting down when I noticed that I started getting headaches after few hits, also my heart would start racing a bit too fast and I was generally feeling tired all the time.

 

[Stew1957]

Hey... have you tried a pod? You might like a pod device similar to the Vinci Air. It's draw activated and is more cigarette-like in that it's draw activated and much smaller than a full sized mod...

The flavor is not as good in these smaller pods, but most commercially made juices that have strong flavor, like menthol or fruits, still come through fine. (Subtler flavors like custards or bakery won't come through as well)

These pods are less expensive, so easier on the wallet to try and see if you like them. They are also designed to use higher levels of nicotine in them (like your 18mg).

You may enjoy the ease of them as well... although you will have to source coils for them periodically. What country are you in?

Hi am in South Africa and our currency is very low so imported goods are expensive especially stuff being brought in at the moment withe the tobacco lockdown. Pod systems are expensive as is everything else and coils and maintenance goodies are erratic in the supply and possibly more expensive. That's one of the reasons that something with a RTA is more economical to run and maintain.
Thanks for your suggestions though.

 

[Stew1957]

I started DTL with 14mg at around 60W few weeks after giving up smoking. I'm now down to 5-6mg in weaker setups (50-70W) and 3-4mg in more poweful setups (70-110W).
Initially all was great, for like a month or 6 weeks, and high nic consumption really helped with cravings, but I started cutting down when I noticed that I started getting headaches after few hits, also my heart would start racing a bit too fast and I was generally feeling tired all the time.

Thanks. I have no I'll effects except my stomach is a bit looser since Vaping. No headaches or anything else. Just I seem to be having a problem adapting to a consistent draw speed. Sometimes I just want a slow draw and sometimes a fast draw and I am battling as settings to suit on don't suit the other and I subconsciously draw at different speeds.
Thanks for your input.

 

[Hawise]

Thanks. I have no I'll effects except my stomach is a bit looser since Vaping. No headaches or anything else. Just I seem to be having a problem adapting to a consistent draw speed. Sometimes I just want a slow draw and sometimes a fast draw and I am battling as settings to suit on don't suit the other and I subconsciously draw at different speeds.
Thanks for your input.

For what it's worth, if you ever do overdo the nicotine in your experiments, the first symptoms are generally some combination of nausea, headaches and dizziness. Just take a break and lower your nicotine when you restart, and you should be fine in about 20 minutes.

It's hard to overdose in a dangerous fashion while vaping because the nicotine takes effect so quickly that you'll be miserably sick long before you do yourself any serious harm. Drinking ejuice is a different story. It can easily be lethal, but as I don't suppose you're intending to do that, it shouldn't be a problem.