Alert?

[Bliss Doubt]

Has anybody else heard that FDA is planning to ban menthol cigarettes?

FDA proposal to ban menthol cigarettes reignites public health debate impacting Black Americans

I know most of the forum doesn't smoke. What it comes down to is whether or not menthol vapers need to begin hoarding yet another thing.

I'd about convinced myself we wouldn't lose vaping in the US, but it really seems to me like we're in a scene in the Orwell novel "1984", in which Winston is told by his overseer "we're going to end pleasure".

We have new members in this forum, one in Turkey who can get vape liquids but the sale of vaping equipment there is banned. We have a new member in Denmark who can buy a max 10 ml. bottle of liquid at max 20 mg/ml. vaping is illegal in Thailand. Utah limits nic concentrations sold in the state to 24 mg in bottles, 36 mg in closed systems (pods, cartridges).

The alert is only in case our menthol people want to start hoarding menthol flavoring in addition to everything else. I'll be posting this in the other forum too.

 

[DPLongo22]

Has anybody else heard that FDA is planning to ban menthol cigarettes?

FDA proposal to ban menthol cigarettes reignites public health debate impacting Black Americans

I know most of the forum doesn't smoke. What it comes down to is whether or not menthol vapers need to begin hoarding yet another thing.

I'd about convinced myself we wouldn't lose vaping in the US, but it really seems to me like we're in a scene in the Orwell novel "1984", in which Winston is told by his overseer "we're going to end pleasure".

We have new members in this forum, one in Turkey who can get vape liquids but the sale of vaping equipment there is banned. We have a new member in Denmark who can buy a max 10 ml. bottle of liquid at max 20 mg/ml. Vaping is illegal in Thailand. Utah limits nic concentrations sold in the state to 24 mg in bottles, 36 mg in closed systems (pods, cartridges).

The alert is only in case our menthol people want to start hoarding menthol flavoring in addition to everything else. I'll be posting this in the other forum too.

 

[WorksForMe]

I'd about convinced myself we wouldn't lose vaping in the US, but it really seems to me like we're in a scene in the Orwell novel "1984", in which Winston is told by his overseer "we're going to end pleasure".

As people here have been predicting for years, vaping is not going to disappear completely, but it's going to be much more expensive and much less appealing to vapers and smokers. It looks like they're only going to approve tobacco flavors in closed pod systems and disposables. They just approved a couple of tobacco flavored VUSE products.

FDA Issues Marketing Decisions on Vuse Vibe and Vuse Ciro E-Cigarette Products

.

 

[Javichu]

Here in Spain it is not looking good either.

New ante proyecto de ley (Like a Bill:A bill is proposed legislation under consideration by a legislature.)
Is going to allow only ''Estancos'' to sell vaping products...
Estancos is the official store where you buy cigarettes.

The official stance of the Spanish Government regarding vaping is that they are putting smoking and vaping in the same group...

Just to throw some numbers around,if this bill passes there will be a loss of 1.200 direct jobs and 1.800 indirect jobs.
On top of that 400 brick and mortar stores closed and about a loss of 60 million euros a year.

3 main problems i can think of the top of my head if this bill passes:

-No one at the ''Estanco'' will know about anything vaping related so who is going to teach new vapers?
-Loss of jobs,not good...
-Government will just tax the hell out of the products hence making it more difficult for people that want to quit smoking.

For now we just gotta wait and see how it all unfolds...until now i was proud to call myself a Spaniard,today i am embarrassed and wish i could move somewhere else.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

Every time they propose a ban on menthol cigarettes, some people always play the race card ("it's racist to ban menthol cigs because the market for menthol cigs is largely black-Americans"). and it never happens.

This time the banhammer is also playing the race card ("we are helping black-American menthol smokers by eliminating their access to menthol cigarettes").

Both arguments are just a virtue-signalling sham of course, but those are the arguments made to try to get it pushed through or to stop it.

The menthol ban is actually all about flavors. They say flavored cigarettes have been banned for a long time but that somehow menthol cigarettes are still for sale. This is also a sham argument because menthol isn't really a flavor, it's a sensation. It's not like mint, peppermint, etc. Those are actual flavors that are mentholated. This is actually why any proposed ban on menthol cigarettes should be shot down because menthol isn't a flavor.

Banning menthol cigarettes won't likely stop any menthol smoker from smoking anyway, they will just smoke regular cigs. They may not like it for a while, but they will get used to it. Ultimately, they want that nic and they want to feed the habitual addiction. When I was younger, I knew many menthol smokers and when they ran out, they happily bummed reds off me. They didn't prefer it, but addicts will take anything that feeds their addiction. I also smoked menthol cigs bummed from my friends when I ran out of reds. I didn't prefer it, but I smoked them anyhow.

 

[ShowMeTwice]

FWIW...

Mint, peppermint and spearmint flavorings won't be banned. Same is true for every other flavor used in DIY.

Reality Check: Flavors we use in DIY are also used in the multi billion dollar Food and Beverage industries.

Looking into the future... there will always be legitimate sources to obtain quality flavors from.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

FWIW...

Mint, peppermint and spearmint flavorings won't be banned. Same is true for every other flavor used in DIY.

Reality Check: Flavors we use in DIY are also used in the multi billion dollar Food and Beverage industries.

Looking into the future... there will always be legitimate sources to obtain quality flavors from.

I believe OP is talking about vapers who vape the closed pod systems and aren't likely ever going to want to DIY or even use an open system. But not 100% clear on that.

 

[ShowMeTwice]

I believe OP is talking about vapers who vape the closed pod systems and aren't likely ever going to want to DIY or even use an open system. But not 100% clear on that.

I kind of figured as much but at least wanted to put that info out there before any DIY'ers get nervous about flavorings.

 

[Izan]

Here in Spain it is not looking good either.

New ante proyecto de ley (Like a Bill:A bill is proposed legislation under consideration by a legislature.)
Is going to allow only ''Estancos'' to sell vaping products...
Estancos is the official store where you buy cigarettes.

The official stance of the Spanish Government regarding vaping is that they are putting smoking and vaping in the same group...

Just to throw some numbers around,if this bill passes there will be a loss of 1.200 direct jobs and 1.800 indirect jobs.
On top of that 400 brick and mortar stores closed and about a loss of 60 million euros a year.

3 main problems i can think of the top of my head if this bill passes:

-No one at the ''Estanco'' will know about anything vaping related so who is going to teach new vapers?
-Loss of jobs,not good...
-Government will just tax the hell out of the products hence making it more difficult for people that want to quit smoking.

For now we just gotta wait and see how it all unfolds...until now i was proud to call myself a Spaniard,today i am embarrassed and wish i could move somewhere else.

Tio, we knew this was the end game for e-cigarettes in Spain.

Disposables and closed pods will be offered along with IQOS and regular combustion based nicotine products at the stamp store. It is just the way it is... But I'm telling you what you know.

I hope that larger shops can stay in business catering to the hobby side of vaping but without the ability to sell nicotine containing products, I doubt that many will.

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

Cheers
I

 

[Bliss Doubt]

I believe OP is talking about vapers who vape the closed pod systems and aren't likely ever going to want to DIY or even use an open system. But not 100% clear on that.

My thought wasn't about any particular system vs DIY. I just felt that if menthol cigarettes were to be banned, pmta would be denied or withdrawn for any kind of menthol vape products or liquids, including flavor concentrates offered on vaping sites (though I'm not sure whether or not flavor concentrates are within the FDA wheelhouse).

DIY people are wiley and know how to do things, but menthol isn't sold as a flavoring for candy and baking, to the best of my knowledge. You can get eucalyptus for bath and body DIY, and candle making, in which case, is it a dangerous essential oil...

And I know there are peppermint, spearmint, wintergreen, etc., but really those are not menthol.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

including flavor concentrates offered on vaping sites (though I'm not sure whether or not flavor concentrates are within the FDA wheelhouse).

FDA can't define flavorings as "tobacco products" unless a specific brand of flavoring is marketed as a vaping product. As I stated a couple of years ago, IMHO, FA and INW as well as one or two other flavor manufacturers are putting the US DIY market in jeopardy by openly marketing their products as vaping products on their website. It's completely asinine for them to do this since they have a global reach. I guess they don't mind losing US sales.

 

[Bliss Doubt]

The official stance of the Spanish Government regarding vaping is that they are putting smoking and vaping in the same group...

Just to throw some numbers around,if this bill passes there will be a loss of 1.200 direct jobs and 1.800 indirect jobs.
On top of that 400 brick and mortar stores closed and about a loss of 60 million euros a year.

3 main problems i can think of the top of my head if this bill passes:

-No one at the ''Estanco'' will know about anything vaping related so who is going to teach new vapers?
-Loss of jobs,not good...
-Government will just tax the hell out of the products hence making it more difficult for people that want to quit smoking.

For now we just gotta wait and see how it all unfolds...until now i was proud to call myself a Spaniard,today i am embarrassed and wish i could move somewhere else.

I don't think that's much different than what is intended here, massive taxation on vaping, extreme limitation of vaping options, and already so many excellent individual businesses have been extinguished by our individual states' torment of vaping entrepreneurs. The FDA sends a threatening letter to any vape seller caught promoting vaping as a way to quit smoking.

In the end, I think all of the governments want us to be poor, sick, and soon dead.

Be a proud Spaniard and keep fighting.

 

[Izan]

My thought wasn't about any particular system vs DIY. I just felt that if menthol cigarettes were to be banned, pmta would be denied or withdrawn for any kind of menthol vape products or liquids, including flavor concentrates offered on vaping sites (though I'm not sure whether or not flavor concentrates are within the FDA wheelhouse).

DIY people are wiley and know how to do things, but menthol isn't sold as a flavoring for candy and baking, to the best of my knowledge. You can get eucalyptus for bath and body DIY, and candle making, in which case, is it a dangerous essential oil...

And I know there are peppermint, spearmint, wintergreen, etc., but really those are not menthol.

Menthol is NOT going anywhere.
https://www.amazon.com/Menthol-Crystal-Natural-Arvensis-Resealable/dp/B09N15C55V?ref_=ast_sto_dp

Spoiler: Other uses

About this item

• 
  
• WANT SPA TREATMENT AT HOME! Menthol Crystals For Steam Turn Your Home Shower or Steam Room Into a Menthol Infused Experience Helps With Respiratory Inflammation Perfect For Your Personal Dry Sauna.
  
• NEED GOOD BREATH! These Menthol Crystals Have Many Aromatherapy Health Benefits.
  
• ART & CRAFT USE! Menthal Crystallized Can Be Used In Making Of Cosmetics, Lotions, Shampoos Salves, Balms, Foot Sprays, Candles and Many More.
  
• BOTANICAL NAME! Mentha Arvensis Melting Point is Approximately 105 To 107 F
  
• EASY TO USED! Packaged in Food Grade Aluminum Reusable Stand Up Bags.
  
• BEEKEEPING! Menthol Crystals Will Help in The Elimination of Mites in Beehives.
  
• MIXED WELL WITH! Basil, Eucalyptus, Geranium, Grapefruit, Juniper, Lavender, Lemon, Myrrh, Pine, Rosemary, Spearmint, Tea Tree, and Wintergreen.

Cheers
I

 

[Bliss Doubt]

Menthol is NOT going anywhere.
https://www.amazon.com/Menthol-Crystal-Natural-Arvensis-Resealable/dp/B09N15C55V?ref_=ast_sto_dp

I hope you're right, Izan, but that product says "compounded from pure oils". The menthol in cigarettes might actually be of similar properties. I don't know, never smoked menthols, don't vape menthol. I do know that vaping essential oils is very hard on the lungs.

While I was there, I searched "menthol flavoring" and saw this:

https://www.amazon.com/Capella-Flav...SA==&sprefix=menthol+flavoring,hpc,108&sr=1-4

So maybe UncleJunkle is right, that if it isn't marketed specifically as a flavor for vaping, it won't be touched.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

So maybe UncleJunkle is right, that if it isn't marketed specifically as a flavor for vaping, it won't be touched.

There's no maybe about it, really. Flavorings can be used for a lot of things and therefore can be sold and marketed for a lot of uses. It's the same for cotton pads and wire. If it's not marketed specifically for vaping (cough - cotton bacon - cough), the FDA cannot regulate it as a tobacco product. That's why certain wire and flavoring retailers closed their sites and opened back up under a new name that is not vaping related.

 

[ShamrockPat]

It's completely asinine for them to do this since they have a global reach. I guess they don't mind losing US sales.

I have gladly directly purchased from FA and Inawera in their home countries. Inawera unfortunately charges VAT incorrectly, but they're not going anywhere.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

I have gladly directly purchased from FA and Inawera in their home countries. Inawera unfortunately charges VAT incorrectly, but they're not going anywhere.

It's not that they as a company are going anywhere, rather that when the FDA starts looking at the DIY market (and they will some day) and sees that this and that company are overtly marketing themselves as vape flavorings, you won't be able to find them easily in the USA as retailers will drop them like flies to keep from being labeled a vape retailer. Sure, you can buy direct, but if shipping costs are high enough it won't be an option for some DIYers.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

BTW: The USA isn't the only vape-unfriendly country. There are many.

 

[Rossum]

Menthol is NOT going anywhere.

But if it does, Amazon will be the first to fold. Just try finding NAC (N-Acetyl Cysteine -- a supplement that's been available for decades) on Amazon. The FDA made some noise about re-classifying it as a drug and Amazon instantly folded without any enforcement action whatsoever.

 

[DPLongo22]

But if it does, Amazon will be the first to fold. Just try finding NAC (N-Acetyl Cysteine -- a supplement that's been available for decades) on Amazon. The FDA made some noise about re-classifying it as a drug and Amazon instantly folded without any enforcement action whatsoever.

Definitely one of the most absurd cases of premature retractulation that we've seen to date.