An Exercise in Ambiguity

[AgentAnia]

Yes,,,I know what your gonna say, Wikipedia is NOT a peer reviewed shillfest of complete ball arcs-but it is still used widely as an 'accepted' knowledge base, and hey,,it's been 'updated'

"The LD50 of nicotine is 50 mg/kg for rats and 3 mg/kg for mice. 30–60 mg (0.5–1.0 mg/kg) can be a lethal dosage for adult humans.[5][63] However the widely used human LD50 estimate of 0.5–1.0 mg/kg was questioned in a 2013 review, in light of several documented cases of humans surviving much higher doses; the 2013 review suggests that the lower limit causing fatal out-comes is 500–1000mg of ingested nicotine, corresponding to an oral lD50 of 6.5–13 mg/kg"

Nicotine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wow. For once Wikipedia gets it right... (No doubt the ANTZ "editors" will take out that last bit soon...) But we know...

 

[StormFinch]

I think formulating a non-nicotine chemical that acts like nicotine would still be attractive to pharma. They could patent it, and they could also use the fact that it's not actually nicotine to get over people's reluctance to use nicotine. They could do some studies and say that it's non-addictive (even if it turns out later that it's 100x more addictive than actual nicotine). It could still be compounded with other drugs for more patents.

I'm not saying it's logical. It would be more logical to just use nicotine, but I'm saying I can see why it would appeal to pharma.

With Big Pharma, or for that matter Big Business, it's all about the patents. Change one molecule and you can file a patent and sell it for a lot more money than the natural derivative. For example, look at a compounded hormone called 17P. Used to prevent premature labor, 17P was found at most U.S. compounding pharmacies for $10 to $20 a shot. Along comes K-V Pharmaceuticals who declares it an orphan drug, does a clinical trial, wins FDA approval under the name Makena, and tries to sell it for $1500 a shot while sending cease and desist letters to the compounding pharmacies. Likewise, Stevia went through similar trials and tribulations to e-cigarettes until Coca Cola and Cargill were able to change it slightly and file for it under the Truvia moniker.

I figure there are two tried and true sayings here on ECF. The first is somewhat unrelated to the conversation but still worth repeating; "it's not the cigarettes you smoke, it's the ones you don't". The second though is definitely a key point for anyone getting involved with the political side of things; "when in doubt as to true intentions, follow the money".

 

[Spazmelda]

Very cool that someone added that in.

 

[fiddleshe]

Talk to any marketing man and they will tell you a product will sell as good as it's name. Such is the case in the product of a famous Italian Chef, Ettore Boiardi. He did great selling his product to his friends and neighbors but when it came to commercial success, people outside of his Italian neighborhood couldn't remember how to spell or pronounce his name, and thus didn't buy his products. It wasn't until he changed his labels to spell it out Chef Boy-Ar-Dee, did his pastas become a commercial hit. ( I watch too many documentaries)

Nicotine is no different. In fact that is just a pretty little name for 3-(1-methylpyrrolidin-2-yl)pyridine. Clever pharmaceuticals can simply list the long form as the ingredient. If they are asked by lay people what that ingredient is, they simply can reinvent a new short cut word for it, thus making a new and happier association for the same chemical. It has happened over and over in history.

 

[Orb Skewer]

Great observation fiddleshe, going on what we now know, it might as well be renamed Ovaltine


Attempting to commit suicide with E-Liquids: Witless! » Zwischen und hinter den Zeilen

 

[Orb Skewer]

Another excellent find-courtesy of 'generic mutant'

The myth of nicotine addiction - Formindep

 

[zoiDman]

Feel free to join in.

Q: How Toxic is Nicotine.....

Q: How Addictive is Nicotine

Don't these Questions have to be Quantified with a working Definition of what "Toxic" and "Addictive" are?

The "Toxic" part may be somewhat Doable. But I foresee Problems with a Common Definition to "Addictive".

 

[Jman8]

Feel free to join in.

Q: How Toxic is Nicotine.....

Q: How Addictive is Nicotine

My responses, based on my experience

Of all the times I've enjoyed products that contained nicotine, I would say about 5% of the time, I felt effects of what I understand to be nicotine poisoning. The most pronounced episodes were when I was a person who hadn't tried the product before or it had been awhile (like 2+ weeks) since I last tried it. Even in those situations it would be a 50/50 proposition. Once my system was used to it, it went down to less than 5% of the time. Then it was just a matter of how much I abused the product in any given moment (span of 10 minutes). But even with periods of sustained heavy abuse, I would say it was less than 5% of the time I felt the effects of nicotine poison.

Regarding the second question. Prior to vaping and me researching products that contain nicotine, I was convinced that nicotine was highly addictive, and a substance that once tasted made you crave it more and more endlessly, unless you exercise willpower. Since becoming a vaper, and doing research, and vaping (mostly at level of 18 mg), I realize that nicotine isn't all that addictive. It certainly is at least a little addictive, but put into perspective of all addictions I am aware of, it would be moderate to low, with something like sugar being far higher.

 

[NorthOfAtlanta]

Another excellent find-courtesy of 'generic mutant'

The myth of nicotine addiction - Formindep

Excellent read, well worth the time, page saved and bookmarked.