Another 18650 recommendation thread!

[Flavourful]

Hi all

Will keep it brief as I know similar questions have been asked loads of times.

I'm looking for the longest lasting 18650 battery - ie. time between charges.

I use a Kanger subox mini (single 18650 mod) and only ever vape up to 30w. Always use 0.5ohm coils. No idea how some people vape at 100w or more!

I've always used LG HG2s and Samsung 30Qs. No issues with either but they do need replacing now. I've read that if I'm only vaping up to 30w, then the Sony VTC6 may last longer than the LGs or Samsungs?

I first bought the HG2s around two years ago - was hoping some 4000mah 18650s existed now but obviously not!

Open to other recommendations as well.

Thanks

 

[bwh79]

I've always used LG HG2s and Samsung 30Qs. No issues with either but they do need replacing now. I've read that if I'm only vaping up to 30w, then the Sony VTC6 may last longer than the LGs or Samsungs?

Any of those should be good for your needs. They all have 3000mAh capacity. LG has the highest amp rating of the three. Check out @Mooch's blog for his latest charts and test results. Here is his "recommended batteries" chart as of today, 5/4/18 (posted 4/11/18, expires 5/11/18):

 

[Baditude]

All three perform reasonably similar with each other to the point that in the real world you probably couldn't tell the difference between the three.

Based on Mooch's bench tests, the Sony VTC6 will hold its voltage slightly better than the other two due to its lower internal resistance, but in cycle life (life expectancy of the battery) the Samsung 30Q is slightly better than the Sony or LG. Most vendors that I've checked, the Sony is slightly more expensive than the other two. If you ever venture into vaping higher than 45 watts, the LG HG2 will allow you to vape up to 60 watts due to being a 20 amp battery, while the Sony and Samsung are only 15 amp batteries with a wattage ceiling of 45 watts.

All three are great batteries and I don't think you can go wrong with either one. I happen to rotate 5 Samsung 30Q. Like yourself, I only vape in the 30+ watt range with 0.5 ohm coils and get nearly a full day's use in my single battery DNA75W mod.

 

[Flavourful]

Thanks bwh

I know it's between those three, and they're all 3000mah - I was just hoping that there's one of the three that sits above the rest in terms of longest lasting, if vaping at a fairly low wattage.

 

[Flavourful]

Ahh thanks Baditude. Been in work so will watch when I get home later!

 

[Flavourful]

Ok great - watched that video now.

VTC6 comes out on top due to lower internal resistance, and ultimately higher capacity.

However...
Bench Test Results: Which lasts longer? VTC6, 30Q, or HG2?

After 50 discharge cycles at 15A, the capacity of the VTC6 is reduced the most, and the 30Q takes the lead.

Would the results look any different with discharge cycles around 7A?

I vape at about 28w, and according to my mod 3.92v, which means a discharge of about 7.1A. I know we're talking small differences across these three batteries, but would be good to know. Would a lower discharge current have a lower impact on the cycle capacity loss @Mooch ?

 

[KenD]

Ok great - watched that video now.

VTC6 comes out on top due to lower internal resistance, and ultimately higher capacity.

However...
Bench Test Results: Which lasts longer? VTC6, 30Q, or HG2?

After 50 discharge cycles at 15A, the capacity of the VTC6 is reduced the most, and the 30Q takes the lead.

Would the results look any different with discharge cycles around 7A?

I vape at about 28w, and according to my mod 3.92v, which means a discharge of about 7.1A. I know we're talking small differences across these three batteries, but would be good to know. Would a lower discharge current have a lower impact on the cycle capacity loss @Mooch ?

At 28w the amp draw is around 10 amps (assuming a low voltage cutoff at 3.2 and 90% device efficiency).

Sent from my Thor E using Tapatalk

 

[Flavourful]

At 28w the amp draw is around 10 amps (assuming a low voltage cutoff at 3.2 and 90% device efficiency).

Sent from my Thor E using Tapatalk

Thanks Ken, is that:

(28/3.2)/0.9 = 9.7amps?

So it's the low voltage cut off that should be used to calculate the discharge current, and not the voltage displayed on my mod? (which right now has actually dropped to 3.74v)

 

[KenD]

Thanks Ken, is that:

(28/3.2)/0.9 = 9.7amps?

So it's the low voltage cut off that should be used to calculate the discharge current, and not the voltage displayed on my mod? (which right now has actually dropped to 3.74v)

Yes, exactly

Sent from my Thor E using Tapatalk

 

[sonicbomb]

Ohms/Watts Law - Calculating safe amp usage | E-Cigarette Forum

 

[Hawise]

So it's the low voltage cut off that should be used to calculate the discharge current, and not the voltage displayed on my mod? (which right now has actually dropped to 3.74v)

I'll second the 'yes' and add a 'because': Most mods display the voltage delivered to the coil, not the voltage from the battery, so the voltage on your mod often has little to do with the battery. Even if you have one of the mods that shows the battery's voltage, what matters isn't the voltage right at the moment, but rather the minimum voltage. This is because you'll be drawing the most amps when the voltage is lowest - as the voltage drops the board in a regulated mod pulls more amps to maintain the same wattage. Most mods cut off at 3.2 volts or a little higher, so that's become a standard figure.

 

[Flavourful]

Thanks all

My Samsung 30Q batteries are about 15 months old, and the LG HG2s are a bit over two years old. I'm sure that they're not lasting nearly as long as they did, but is there any way to quantify this?

I've checked with a multimeter, and when fully charged, the voltage is showing around 4.12v on both the Samsung and LG batteries. From new they would be 4.2v when fully charged, but is this a significant drop?

I don't think there's a way to test the capacity with a multimeter, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Walee]

Thanks all

My Samsung 30Q batteries are about 15 months old, and the LG HG2s are a bit over two years old. I'm sure that they're not lasting nearly as long as they did, but is there any way to quantify this?

I've checked with a multimeter, and when fully charged, the voltage is showing around 4.12v on both the Samsung and LG batteries. From new they would be 4.2v when fully charged, but is this a significant drop?

I don't think there's a way to test the capacity with a multimeter, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

You can test batteries under load with a multi-meter. One way is to buy a couple of .5Ω, 100W, wire wound resisters and wire them in parallel. Measure voltage across the load. You will see your battery drop down to the voltage it can sustain with a .25Ω load. This will give you an idea of how well they are performing. There is no "go" / "no go" value. For example, an LGHG2 may drop to 3.7V when it is new and if it is used with moderate loads, drop to 3.5V a year later. If used hard, it may drop to 3.3V in six months. These values are for process demonstration only and not meant to be benchmarks to look for.

 

[stols001]

Honestly, IMO, the best way to decide if a cell is not worth using anymore is probably just by observing its performance. If it's demonstrably (to you) showing signs of more rapid discharge, that may be all you need to know. Because, yes, you can test it with a multi-meter and try to get some more precise results, but I'm not entirely sure you need them. Once performance starts to noticeably fall, that is usually the time for replacement and there is little need to "test" your real world hypothesis. You can certainly try, but noticeable performance drops, in and of themselves, are kind of your "sign." You really don't need more than that, and batteries are really the single most important part of vaping almost when it comes to safety.

Is it possible you may get a few months more use out of them? Maybe. Is it necessarily worth it to find out? I'm not so sure.

Anna

 

[Flavourful]

Ok thanks everyone. It was only if there was a simple way to see if the capacity was much lower now. Doesn't look like it so I'll just buy a couple more - they're not expensive

 

[Baditude]

@Flavourful The Xtar VC2 charger for about $20 will provide you with how many mAh it gives to the battery. It's a decent way to calculate the capacity left in an older battery.

 

[Flavourful]

Nice! Currently using the Xtar VP2 charger. Can't remember why I chose that over the VC2...might be because of the choice to charge at 0.25a, 0.5a and 1a in case I needed a quick charge.

 

[aLyr]

All of the things that the topic starter wants to know has been discussed in other threads already.
He ought to search this forum properly.

 

[Flavourful]

If you read my posts, specifically these parts, you'll find that these questions haven't been asked before:

"if I'm only vaping up to 30w, then (would) the Sony VTC6 last longer than the LGs or Samsungs?"

"After 50 discharge cycles at 15A, the capacity of the VTC6 is reduced the most, and the 30Q takes the lead.
Would the results look any different with discharge cycles around 7A?"

I couldn't find threads that answered those questions, but please point me in the right direction if I missed them.

Guess everyone should apologise for trying to be helpful.

Thanks again all.

 

[Topwater Elvis]

At the amp demand 30w creates there isn't much difference in run time between any of the authentic 3000mah cells mentioned.
Maybe a few to a about dozen or so puffs, or, around 15 seconds to at the very most 1.5 minutes difference in actual run time.

Power device efficiency has a greater impact on run time than which cell you use as long as the cells used are same mah & authentic.

As cells age they lose capacity, the harder they're pushed the faster degradation takes place. Upon final assembly a cell's lifespan time clock starts ticking whether used or not.
Even if transported & stored in a temp & humidity controlled environment they slowly lose capacity.

So, which will last longest out of the 3 at 30w? The newest / freshest cell.