Another Mod has died

[vapdivrr]

I have more than ten cheap joyetech/Wismec/Eleaf mods, the oldest one more than a year old, and all of them are fully functional. And it's not like I've been gentle with them. My oldest rx200 has taken more than a few tumbles on the stone staircase of my building. Of all the regulated mods I've owned, all under $50 (well, except my Reuleaux DNA200, but that's a Wismec mod as well), only one has even failed (fasttech replaced it). There's a lot of discussion about evolv replacing the boards in failed mods with their tech, but that's not much help for someone outside the US. The postage alone will probably be considerably more than a mod with a joyetech board will cost. The "you get what you pay for"-mantra ("mantra" is a very suitable word because it's not rare to find an almost religious devotion to brands) repeated religiously but there's simply not much evidence of the truthfulness of it. Percentagewise expensive mods probably fail as much as cheaper ones (show me proof of that this isn't true). This does not apply to only mods of course, with all merchandise you pay for the brand name rather than for quality. In other areas I'm loyal to a particular brand, and I'm fully aware that I'd get a product of equal quality for a cheaper price. I have no problems with brand loyalty, but don't fool yourself with the "you get what you pay for"-mantra.

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Here it comes again. You guys come out of the wood work to gang up on us that don't buy cheap stuff! Again this crap stirring , I don't get why you go out of your way to disagree with my opinion to the OP. I said it before, if you have any information or recommendations to the OP'S question, then give him advise on his question. Don't crap stir and come at my comments, that's just ridiculous. I'm honestly giving sound advise to the OP in that if he is not having good luck with the devices he had dieing, then move up to a higher quality mod! What the heck is wrong with that? Now I got freaken guys giving no help to the OP and going out of their way to argue with sound advise! You all got to chill out and stop this nonsense. I have been here for years and honestly try to help people the best I can, not once have I ever went into a thread and instead of answering directly to the OP with help, have I intentionally directed a post to someone's comments to the OP. I said it before, this is why crap get stirred up and threads get closed.

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[KenD]

Here it comes again. You guys come out of the wood work to gang up on us that don't buy cheap stuff! Again this crap stirring , I don't get why you go out of your way to disagree with my opinion to the OP. I said it before, if you have any information or recommendations to the OP'S question, then give him advise on his question. Don't crap stir and come at my comments, that's just ridiculous. I'm honestly giving sound advise to the OP in that if he is not having good luck with the devices he had dieing, then move up to a higher quality mod! What the heck is wrong with that? Now I got freaken guys giving no help to the OP and going out of their way to argue with sound advise! You all got to chill out and stop this nonsense. I have been here for years and honestly try to help people the best I can, not once have I ever went into a thread and instead of answering directly to the OP with help, have I intentionally directed a post to someone's comments to the OP. I said it before, this is why crap get stirred up and threads get closed.

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I've been here all the time, I'm not ganging up with anyone against anyone else, and I'm expressing my opinion based on my experience, for the benefit of the op and others. It's not off topic, and posted as a response to the post it was for completely logical reasons. Do you think you have some sort of exclusive right to express opinions? Why are you taking this so personally? It wasn't meant personally. This exchange is off topic, and we should engage in it no more.

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[vapdivrr]

But there is a difference in saying "I got "X" mod after some research because I like the way they do things and I think it will pan out to last longer" and "Buy only expensive mods because expensive mods last longer". I also never suggested that all devices are created equal and gave good examples of that. But price itself isn't the solo factor originally suggested. These devices aren't complicated to manufacturer. You have a logic board that is like rocket science to get right but after that it's about designing a good looking shell and input system (button placement), the rest is just basic ground and power lines running to a battery sled and atomizer connector. Really even when we talk about thin cables, it's a sign of a company penny pinching and usually has no impact on the performance of the device (regulated). So assuming a good connection (proper soldering) the major holdup on reliability is in the logic board. This is something that none of the hemo manufacturers actually do themselves.

The problem as you noted is that I or someone else could have a Hemo mod die and it doesn't mean anything because its just a bad device or bad luck and you aren't wrong. But on the other hand a person with a bad lets say Smok H-Priv, didn't get unlucky, he got what was expected with a $50 mod. Now we can turn around and take a show of hands and ask everyone how many H-privs have died. We might get 20 people to say something. If we asked the same of your Hemo (Lets call it Hemo X) we might not get any at all. But wouldn't that be the case not because they don't die, but because it's a hemo X there isn't a large enough sample.

Even if we ignore sample size there is still use case. As I commented before A guy with an Eleaf isn't going to treat his Eleaf any where as nice as the guy with the $1200 Hemo X. In terms of problems who is going to get ...... easier the guy with Eleaf or the guy with the Hemo if they act up. Surprisingly the guy with the Eleaf why. By admitting to themselves that the Hemo X acted up they would reflect on the money they spent on it where as the Eleaf person has no reason to miss represent his experience with the device because he can pick up a different product relatively cheap. Also along the same lines a forum can give these users where there are many of them the opportunity to realize that this might be a bigger issue. If you have a 1 of 20 Hemo and no one is saying anything, people don't want to admit that they managed to kill or break this unique and expensive device when no one else has (outside the obvious this completely fell apart in my hands stories).

You see this in the car markets all the time. Satisfaction levels on brands with numerous issues. Take Mercedes or BMW. The perception and price of the car get a different type of buyer than a chevy. Both actually are middle of the road or lower in repairs per car. But owner satisfaction and repeat buying they have some of the highest numbers. When a Mercedes' stereo goes out, its minor annoyance to have on vehicle this good. But on a chevy cruze the owner would go ballistic. But honestly the Cruze is probably the one that will make it to 200k miles. Or keeping it in the family. One of the best rated cars by owners even above BMW and Merc is Buick. These cars use the same factories, the same workers, and use 80-90% the same parts as their chevy counterparts. But between the market the cars sell to, the perception of the brand itself, and how the owners drive the car and treat the issues they have with it. Nearly the same car will have an astronomically higher rating.

So I am not saying you can't get a well built, nearly indestructible hemo. Or that by and large that Hemo's aren't better than devices a lot of people purchase. But the sample size is so low, the price so high, the information from users so low, the human aspect of users, the changes in use case, and the fact that the one most important part is actually shared with the less expensive devices that a blanket statement that money equals reliability just plainly isn't true. Even if some of the information seems to show that information it's missing one vital aspect and that is Sample size. It prevents the previous statement from being factual even if anecdotal evidence says otherwise. Call it failures per million puffs or something like that. There just wouldn't be enough puffs on one side to hit the million puffs per failure on the other.

Sorry if it seems like you ruffled my feathers, you didn't. It just hits on a point that I see in every market and every niche. It can lead to elitism activity and honestly Vaping is full of that douchebaggery anyways. But I thought it was a nice opportunity to give insight or at least engage on the topic.

You can song and dance all you want, the bottom line is there should be no reason for someone to purposely crap stir things in a thread, I honestly gave good advise to the OP. He was having major issues with a few devices in which I responded by saying to move up to a higher quality mod, and now I got guys coming from all ends and going on about pure nonsense. If you have good info on how the OP can do better, then direct your help to him and stop wasting time by b/s ing .

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[vapdivrr]

I've been here all the time, I'm not ganging up with anyone against anyone else, and I'm expressing my opinion based on my experience, for the benefit of the op and others. It's not off topic, and posted as a response to the post it was for completely logical reasons. Do you think you have some sort of exclusive right to express opinions? Why are you taking this so personally? It wasn't meant personally. This exchange is off topic, and we should engage in it no more.

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It great and have no problem with anything you say at all, but say those opinions to the OP. You can do this directly to the OP by saying something like this" it's unfortunate that a couple of mods have died on you and maybe stop buying that particular brand. I know some have stated to possibly look into a higher priced mod, but In my experiences I have found this not to be the case and have had better luck with modx, or mody, or maybe try modz." This is how I would of done it, I wouldn't confront someone else's opinions when they are just opinions and something that cannot be right or wrong. Sorry my friend, I just cannot understand the confrontation thing when it's just an opinion

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[Topweasel]

You can song and dance all you want, the bottom line is there should be no reason for someone to purposely crap stir things in a thread, I honestly gave good advise to the OP. He was having major issues with a few devices in which I responded by saying to move up to a higher quality mod, and now I got guys coming from all ends and going on about pure nonsense. If you have good info on how the OP can do better, then direct your help to him and stop wasting time by b/s ing .

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I didn't say you gave bad advice. I really don't think you did. I asked a simple question and even gave a perfect example of two devices immediately after it. I'll admit to being a contrarian at times. But mostly because I like pointing out when public perception doesn't match reality. This being a good example. I am sorry if my posts are a bit long. I get excited when I am having what I thought was decent debate. But obviously not if you feel I am just trying to stir things up.

If I really wanted to stir things up I would tell you that not everyone is in a position to buy a much more expensive device for it's reliability and that suggesting so is both insensitive and for many people impossible. I would suggest doing a search for why poor people spend more on toilet paper or this article analyzing a John Oliver video on how we punish people for poor How America Punishes People for Being Poor | BillMoyers.com . Both can give you an idea how pointing at someone and saying well that's what you get for buying such a cheap device is a really crappy thing to do.

But I didn't do that. I just tried to communicate on a technical level why you may not have bought a device that will last longer under the same use case, but bought a false sense of security that has on many other examples actually clouded perception of performance.

Edit: I also would like to note that I originally was communicating with another user who suggested that they used to think the same way but found himself with an overly expensive outdated mod and just followed it up with my opinion that I am not sure Hemo's would really last longer. You injected yourself into a point I was making with another user (regardless if his was commenting on yours) saying I shouldn't say anything that challenged your opinions even if I was just agreeing with others and then accusing in this post of trying to stir things up. Which after you read this post I am sure it will become a self fulfilling prophecy since I am getting a bit snarky. I can't help it on this because its gets under my skin that you can insinuate that I am a troll with impunity when up to this point I have been nothing but cordial.

 

[KenD]

It great and have no problem with anything you say at all, but say those opinions to the OP. You can do this directly to the OP by saying something like this" it's unfortunate that a couple of mods have died on you and maybe stop buying that particular brand. I know some have stated to possibly look into a higher priced mod, but In my experiences I have found this not to be the case and have had better luck with modx, or mody, or maybe try modz." This is how I would of done it, I wouldn't confront someone else's opinions when they are just opinions and something that cannot be right or wrong. Sorry my friend, I just cannot understand the confrontation thing when it's just an opinion

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It's in this thread so it is to the original poster. Don't take it personally, it's not about you.

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[vapdivrr]

It's in this thread so it is to the original poster. Don't take it personally, it's not about you.

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If its not about me, then leave my quote out of your post response. You still don't get it, do you

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[Topweasel]

If its not about me, then leave my quote out of your post response. You still don't get it, do you

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I am not sure you get it. I mean really look at your post history in this thread. As I pointed out in my last post. It was you that replying to me, as I quoted and commented on someone else post, that started our conversation that KenD joined in on. You are just as responsible for the activity you say I and KenD are responsible for committing. His point and it holds true is that A.) A thread and more importantly a forum is meant for group discussion and B.) It's in this thread which is accessible to the OP to read and make a judgment call based on the information passed along in the thread. Not every post needs to formatted a certain way and no crime has been committed if a dissenting opinion was given. This isn't some corporate office where an underling has upstaged you by disagreeing with you in front of the CEO.

 

[6steelstrings]

Ok, I want everybody to calm down and chill. There is truth to most of what is said so far in this thread. The fact of the matter is that I have just had some very bad luck. I decided on the Hcigar VT75 because the evolv chip is highly regarded and is generally considered a high quality chip. Granted the Hcigar VT75 is not a top of the line mod, but it is not a bottom of the barrel el cheapo either. I just got a bad one. As far as the Smok X Cube Ultra goes, I heard from a reliable vendor that they have had several returns for exactly the same problem I had with mine. The good news is that I got my money back for my VT75 and I am getting a warranty replacement on my X Cube.

Now for the ultimate irony. I purchased a Lavabox M DNA75 to replace the VT75 and it is now lost in the mail. No one knows where it is right now.

I cannot catch a break!

Oh well, it will all work out in the end eventually.

 

[Topweasel]

Ok, I want everybody to calm down and chill. There is truth to most of what is said so far in this thread. The fact of the matter is that I have just had some very bad luck. I decided on the Hcigar VT75 because the evolv chip is highly regarded and is generally considered a high quality chip. Granted the Hcigar VT75 is not a top of the line mod, but it is not a bottom of the barrel el cheapo either. I just got a bad one. As far as the Smok X Cube Ultra goes, I heard from a reliable vendor that they have had several returns for exactly the same problem I had with mine. The good news is that I got my money back for my VT75 and I am getting a warranty replacement on my X Cube.

Now for the ultimate irony. I purchased a Lavabox M DNA75 to replace the VT75 and it is now lost in the mail. No one knows where it is right now.

I cannot catch a break!

Oh well, it will all work out in the end eventually.

Yeah sorry specially the last few mods have gotten out of hand. The basic idea is to get the best mass market mod with the best public evidence. DNA devices are generally pretty good so are Yihi. The Hohmwrecker is pretty much regarded as bullet proof but honestly none of these devices have a long enough track record to talk long term reliability. Like you said with the VT it's probably a bad unit. Any device can have that short lived died 20 days later unit. But outside the truly terrible devices any statements about reliability are just educated guesses at this point.