I've read others comments on this issue, stating that if the e-liquid (juice/vapor) could somehow be absorbed in the lungs, it might "feel" more like a "real" cig. I'm curious if any of you know what the possibilities are of doing this? If the vapor could be absorbed in the lungs, it's my understanding that the nicotine would reach the brain much more quickly.
Any way to modify liquid?
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Modifying the absorption rate of nicotine won't mirror the sensation of a cigarette, it will only improve your addiction to nicotine. The nicotine is absorbed in the lungs, just not as rapid as being laced with urea/ammonia(nitrogen) If you really wanted to experiment, (although not advised) You could always buy some GRANULAR lawn fertilizer, preferably one with high nitrogen, not any that is laced with weed control such as Scott's weed and feed. Look for a high nitrogen rate. Description is as follows. Say the granular rating is 25-5-5.....25% urea/ 5 is phosphorus/ 5 is potassium. The urea is bright white. Don't buy slow release, it's coated with lime. Add one white granular to preferably a minimum of 100ml if you find the 25%. See what happens.........Again, I really don't recommend this. Really I don't.
Also to note, we're dealing with liquid. Once granular urea is dissolved in liquid or burned, it becomes a gas. So, not sure how effective this is. So it may take a different approach, such as crushing a granular urea into a fine powder, sprinkle some in the batting of a dry cart, then add liquid for immediate vaping, or good luck finding liquid synthetic urea.
Don't worry, commercial urea is not processed piss. It's synthetic, a byproduct of ammonia and carbon dioxide.
Dissolved urea must be kept cool and out of sunlight. If not, it will ammoniate........meaning your liquid will smell like piss, maybe even taste like it.
These reports show that farm stock have a fairly high tolerance of urea before DEATH.
But we aren't sheep and cattle.
Toxicity of Urea to Sheep
Urea and NPN for Cattle and Sheep
Here is a report that urea is already in our chewing gum at 3% and safe up to 300mg a day.....
798. Urea (WHO Food Additives Series 32)
Info on Urea Fert
http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/cropsystems/DC0636.html
Again, to each is their own. I'm not freebasing nicotine. If I feel the need to, I'll just go back to analogs.
Also to note, we're dealing with liquid. Once granular urea is dissolved in liquid or burned, it becomes a gas. So, not sure how effective this is. So it may take a different approach, such as crushing a granular urea into a fine powder, sprinkle some in the batting of a dry cart, then add liquid for immediate vaping, or good luck finding liquid synthetic urea.
Don't worry, commercial urea is not processed piss. It's synthetic, a byproduct of ammonia and carbon dioxide.
Dissolved urea must be kept cool and out of sunlight. If not, it will ammoniate........meaning your liquid will smell like piss, maybe even taste like it.
These reports show that farm stock have a fairly high tolerance of urea before DEATH.
But we aren't sheep and cattle.
Toxicity of Urea to Sheep
Urea and NPN for Cattle and Sheep
Here is a report that urea is already in our chewing gum at 3% and safe up to 300mg a day.....
798. Urea (WHO Food Additives Series 32)
Info on Urea Fert
http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/cropsystems/DC0636.html
Again, to each is their own. I'm not freebasing nicotine. If I feel the need to, I'll just go back to analogs.
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Also, to add.
If and when this has been clear of a possible ban or if banning occurs for the purposes of import, but allowed to be manufactured in the US. Expect your mind to be set at ease. This will be a common practice, to again ensure a successful user addiction rate.
It's not being focused on right now, simply because the market is saturated with many retailers and manufacturers and a possible ban. Reduce that, it becomes a king of the hill scenario. What's the best way to stay on top, than to make a product physically/mentally addictive besides adding additional drugs and flavoring to the liquid?
Change the molecular structure of the nicotine!!
If and when this has been clear of a possible ban or if banning occurs for the purposes of import, but allowed to be manufactured in the US. Expect your mind to be set at ease. This will be a common practice, to again ensure a successful user addiction rate.
It's not being focused on right now, simply because the market is saturated with many retailers and manufacturers and a possible ban. Reduce that, it becomes a king of the hill scenario. What's the best way to stay on top, than to make a product physically/mentally addictive besides adding additional drugs and flavoring to the liquid?
Change the molecular structure of the nicotine!!
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Dedmon - not quite sure what you are saying, but I think you are mixing up issues.
Here's my understanding: freebase nicotine is more effective and so potentially less is needed. There might be ways to have a higher freebase content without additives.
People here are already addicted to nicotine. Quite a few move to zero nic, which is all well and good. More people would stay on the e-cig train the first few days if it was more able to duplicate the nicotine hit.
It's not black magic or turning 'ordinary' nicotine into a hard drug. Freebase nic is simply nic that is not bound to another molecule, which can render it innactive or unabsorbable.
ps: I do not recommend any attempt to modify existing juce. This is something to be done by manufacturers not by users.
Here's my understanding: freebase nicotine is more effective and so potentially less is needed. There might be ways to have a higher freebase content without additives.
People here are already addicted to nicotine. Quite a few move to zero nic, which is all well and good. More people would stay on the e-cig train the first few days if it was more able to duplicate the nicotine hit.
It's not black magic or turning 'ordinary' nicotine into a hard drug. Freebase nic is simply nic that is not bound to another molecule, which can render it innactive or unabsorbable.
ps: I do not recommend any attempt to modify existing juce. This is something to be done by manufacturers not by users.
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But, changing the way the nicotene is carried to the brain is turning it into a hard drug. So, people have to take a few more drags than a typical analog....okay, I don't see the problem. My issue is the miss conception that nicotene is not being absorbed into the lungs. It may not become gaseous, but indeed, it is being absorbed into the wall of the lungs.
This is what I wrote and links provided has shown in the other thread.
I find this to be an amazing concept. And I emphasize on concept. I suppose the victims around the world exposed to asbestos, (particles larger than a nicotine molecule) could only wish this theory expanded across the board, especially those suffering from the aftermath of 9-11. Particles of any size can be absorbed by the lung to some degree, and if not, it might come up as phlegm. If it doesn't, you can eventually expect to drown due to build up or flat out respiratory failure once you've achieved an undetermined build up. With this theory, I would now question the use and recommendation of a nicotine inhaler prescribed by physicians and the use of the e-liquid.
Again, it's a matter of how long your willing to hold in or how frequent you inhale.
I read the Freebase thread. And I've read no evidence that the lung doesn't absorb nicotine. Freebase form, allows the nicotine to disperse into a gaseous form, allowing rapid absorption to the brain.
Mentioned in the link, ammonia is added in cigarettes to convert nicotine to a gaseous state....SO THAT WE ARE LIKELY TO BE ADDICTED and for the cigarette manufacture, this ensures a more successful rate to turn once social or experimenting smokers into, 8-o....us!
"Nicotine enters a smoker's body mostly carried on the billions of particles in cigarette smoke, Pankow said. In common with street drugs like ......., he said, nicotine's molecular structure can appear in both free-base ("unprotonated") and non-free-base ("monoprotonated") forms.
Opening statement is an open and shut case. The particles in which our nicotine travels, replaces burnt carbon for vapored glycol.
The difference is that the free-base form is missing a hydrogen ion , and this allows it to vaporize easily into a gas during smoking. "During smoking, only the free-base form can volatize from a particle into the air in the respiratory tract. Gaseous nicotine is known to deposit super-quickly in the lungs. From there, it's transported rapidly to the brain."
The study found a wide range of free-base nicotine levels among other brands such as Camel, Winston, Doral, GPC, Kamel Red, Virginia Slims, American Spirit and the French brand Gauloises. (A copy of the complete study is available upon request; see the last page for details).
OHSU researcher publishes first measurements of "free-base" nicotine in cigarette smoke
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Dedmon - you are too addicted to the BT tried to get smokers hooked line. While that is true, it doesn't then imply that a fast nicotine hit is bad. Some don't need it, some do.
I just want the choice. I don't want to be buying something that is mostly placebo.
Even if bound forms of nicotine are lung absorbable, are they metabolisable, and in a way that releases the nicotine? In general, partially. Why not have a more effective nicotine??
I just want the choice. I don't want to be buying something that is mostly placebo.
Even if bound forms of nicotine are lung absorbable, are they metabolisable, and in a way that releases the nicotine? In general, partially. Why not have a more effective nicotine??
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LMAO!!!!!
You are certainly obligated to this right. My concern, is in the event that a manufacturer should replicate the freebase form....will I?(outside of vaping or not to vape?)
It appears that I can't control my vaping enough as it is, even when my heart rate is up and skips a beat. I just love to vape, because I can.
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I think vitamins and minerals are a good analogy. Many are, in plants, boand and barely absorbable. So would you take this bound form and sell it as 28mg of X?
If you like alcohol free beer, why not. But let's be clear on the product and give the consumers a choice. Better a lower true nic than a high inneffective nic.
I suspect that bound forms of nic are a part of what causes burned residue build up on atty coils.
I suspect that bound forms of nic are a part of what causes burned residue build up on atty coils.
The problem with the vitamin analogy, is even if one could overdose on vitamins, the body can only use so much before turning it into waste or some adverse affects such as liver failure or blood poisoning from overdosing on iron. Nicotine, I can expect a visit to the ER, or to the grave. We've eliminated the burn down timing of an analog, so one would have to gauge how much they should take, based on feel. As stated and known, freebase is potent. So when exactly has one reached a dangerous point?
I would assume nicotine purchase would have to be vastly lower than what we typically buy. Somewhere around 5-10mg a ml to match an analog intake. I'm not sure so don't quote me on it.
I would assume nicotine purchase would have to be vastly lower than what we typically buy. Somewhere around 5-10mg a ml to match an analog intake. I'm not sure so don't quote me on it.
I'm not sure that freebase nic in juice is possible even, but I think it might be.
Even then, it might not work out for various reasons. But if it can work, that's the one to use. One can still choose the dose, and perhaps also if this type or the standard type.
Even then, it might not work out for various reasons. But if it can work, that's the one to use. One can still choose the dose, and perhaps also if this type or the standard type.
The problem with the vitamin analogy, is even if one could overdose on vitamins, the body can only use so much before turning it into waste or some adverse affects such as liver failure or blood poisoning from overdosing on iron. Nicotine, I can expect a visit to the ER, or to the grave. We've eliminated the burn down timing of an analog, so one would have to gauge how much they should take, based on feel. As stated and known, freebase is potent. So when exactly has one reached a dangerous point?
I would assume nicotine purchase would have to be vastly lower than what we typically buy. Somewhere around 5-10mg a ml to match an analog intake. I'm not sure so don't quote me on it.
I believe in consumer choice not state control. 'Protection ' instead of freedom to run my own life as opposed to being a slave of the state - no thanks.
I believe it's achievable with the method I mentioned. It will eliminate the extra Hydrogen ion the nicotine is attached to found on burnt tabacco particles and allow some of the nicotine to be carried by gas. The problem is that, you don't want your liquid to smell and taste of urine.
Although commercial urea is mostly synthetic, it still ammonites when reaching a certain temp. So this reduces the desire to carry any liquid around in the pocket or pre-mix in advance.
Powdered urea on filters, would probably be the solution.
Again, we all know heat and nicotine contributes to throat hit. If nicotine is forced to be reduced in our vaping method since it has gone free base form and far more potent in terms of absorption...Throat hit will have to be relied on heat and some other way to achieve the sensation of a throat hit.
But anyway, I really hope people leave that up to the manufacturers who have a degree in chemistry. My knowledge is based on google research and experience in horticulture!8-o
I'm not saying I want any measure of state control. I'd rather have someone tell me the appropriate intake(such as nutritional facts found on food packaging) rather guessing.
I'm hoping that freebase nic can be stable or stabilised in the juice without need to be created at point of vaporiation. But not sure if that is possible. Some chemistry trained bods disappeared from here just after this topic got moving. I've not had time to look into it any further. But I think there might be some developments in terms of better juice just around the corner ...
Agreed. But the point is that presently the figures are misleading because much of the nic is unused.
Also, faster acting nic is better for self-control of dosing because the effects are more immediate. With slow acting forms, one might overdose before realising it.
I know one or two people are looking into this behind the scenes; quite soon we might have something to actually try.
Well, I hope when this happens. That it's maufactured under honest and knowledgeble measures. Because this industry has no level plane of product production under regulations, description's or recommondation's. It's mostly influenced with the intent to false advertise, bringing us back into the early 80's of misleading commercials.
100 puff carts my as$! Replace my atomizer every 2 weeks my as$! Marlboro flavor my as$!!!
Very good point. I know I have done this many times with even 18mg.....time to take a seat and sit in front of a fan on high!
Well, I hope when this happens. That it's maufactured under honest and knowledgeble measures. Because this industry has no level plane of product production under regulations, description's or recommondation's. It's mostly influenced with the intent to false advertise, bringing us back into the early 80's of misleading commercials.
100 puff carts my as$! Replace my atomizer every 2 weeks my as$! Marlboro flavor my as$!!!
True, but off topic.
The juice manuafctures are not the ones doing the cart selling, in the main.
Kinabaloo - if and when you hear more about developments with the juice, as you mentioned here, will you please post them on this site? Thanks.
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