Anyone care to tell them how wrong they are?

[CdnBison]

I sent an email, posted to the FB page, and sent Global a copy of my email (and link back to their story I was referencing).

I also didn't see *this* thread either when I posted my duplicate. Sorry.

 

[SoUnique]

I think this topic needs all the exposure we can give it.

 

[Ayce]

103 comments on that FB article, ( as of this post) and I can only see a few. Anyone know how to get all comments to show up?
I read as many comments as I could, and I agree they are just trying to use scare tactics to keep people off ecigs, and on their sponsors products. I haven't commented as yet, I want to see all other comments first.

 

[WolfeReign]

103 comments on that FB article, ( as of this post) and I can only see a few. Anyone know how to get all comments to show up?
I read as many comments as I could, and I agree they are just trying to use scare tactics to keep people off ecigs, and on their sponsors products. I haven't commented as yet, I want to see all other comments first.

If you follow this link here it should bring you to their site, and just press the view more comments until you get to the start. If not then you are not missing much as a majority of the comments are from the typical rent-a-mop view point. I have a feeling this will not end well

 

[WolfeReign]

The Reason why i said my last comment is that in reading what everyone had to say it looks like there is way to many keyboard cowboys and cowgirls out there.
Reading through the comments from the beginning i seen this:

Canadian Lung Association Based on the current scientific evidence and recommendations from the World Health Organization, Health Canada, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, the Canadian Lung Association has determined electronic cigarettes (e-cigarettes) are potentially harmful to lung health and are NOT an approved smoking cessation product aid. There are many Health Canada approved therapies to help someone quit smoking; the e-cigarette is NOT one of them.

The Canadian Lung Association is calling for:

More research into the potential health effects of e-cigarettes.

Legislation to prohibit the sale of e-cigarettes until e-cigarettes are properly researched and receive Health Canada approval.

~So they based their comments on the WHO, HC, FDA....and that is what lead to their comments. No one commented on this to correct them?

~Did you see the CLA is calling for more research into e-cigarettes? Hey this could be great for exposure. Sure i am not thrilled with the rest of the comment that says they should be made illegal until said research is done but still......And it would be rather redundant for people to go running to FB to make a comment on what CLA said

That comment right there could have been a opening to (peacefully) open a dialog to get the ball rolling and have better exposure on e-cigarettes ... instead we have the flash rent a mop. Also has no one else asked where the ECTA is in all this? Why have they not commented yet? I thought this is why they were formed?

Feel free to flame, dislike or hate this. Just trying to see the logical approach instead of what has been said on FB so far (though some of the comments there are cracking me up)

 

[Ayce]

Thanks, WolfeReign, reading the comments now.

 

[WolfeReign]

no problem it would seem the FB team has changed some of their coding so the usual shortcuts no longer work

 

[Dino Dave]

Thx for showing this. i don't have a facebook account and never will.

 

[Oriana871]

If you go to the official CLA site and download their Background PDF you will get a full picture (not a pretty one I have to say). Some excerpts:

The Canadian Lung Association is calling for:
• More research into the potential health effects of e-cigarettes.
• Legislation to prohibit the sale of e-cigarettes until e-cigarettes are properly researched and receive Health Canada approval.
• All laws related to smoke-free areas should include e-cigarettes.

2) The misconception that the e-cigarette is an effective tool to quit smoking. Research has shown no evidence that e-cigarettes are effective quit smoking aids and raises many concerns about potential health risks

• E-cigarettes may contain ingredients that are known to be toxic to humans including carcinogens and diethylene glycol, a toxic chemical used in antifreezev. In initial lab tests, the FDA found detectable levels of carcinogens and toxic chemicals, in two leading brands of e-cigarettes and 18 various cartridges. vi

• The use of e-cigarettes may glamorize/normalize the act of smoking.

 

[WolfeReign]

Well before this branches off into another three threads, and tons of people commenting just for the sake of sounding angry (as many times CLA's post's were ignored) and if people get pissy at me for saying this:

I thought matters like this was handled by the ECTA? ...just sayng.....

 

[Oriana871]

This has to do with the public responding to a public statement made by CLA or mainstream media. I'm sure the ECTA can work on legalities, etc. behind the scenes. As for them speaking up in public, not sure FB is their choice of battleground.

 

[WolfeReign]

This has to do with the public responding to a public statement made by CLA or mainstream media. I'm sure the ECTA can work on legalities, etc. behind the scenes. As for them speaking up in public, not sure FB is their choice of battleground.

touché.

I guess i was looking at something else which was the transference in this case. CLA put the onus on HC, FDA, WHO, and a few others, so i was looking directly at HC, WHO, and FDA thinking that is where the this call to action should go. I mean get this out to the media...write the letters to the news stations, news papers etc....the government does not like bad press and i am sure this would kick HC's ....'s into high gear.....

(if i can flag down project guy or Dusty who seem to understand politics better then myself, they might correct me here in my logic)

 

[nuclearbroccoli]

"The use of e-cigarettes may glamorize/normalize the act of smoking."
Thank you Oriana871 for bringing that to light.

This imho, is exactly why HC is against them. They've spent the last decade trying to denormalize smoking, and e-cigs don't fit in with their strategy.
For them to support e-cigs would require a new strategy that accepts nicotine addiction as being ok.
I don't see that happening...

 

[Kagey K]

I have a 7 year old daughter at this time and a 4 year old son, if either of them were to follow my example as I did my parent's they would be likely to start smoking at a young age (12-14) this way I have a chance to quit before it gets permanently ingrained in them, but if I am still vaping then, I would rather they pick that up than if they picked up analogs.

No matter what kids are going to pick up Nicotine, the amount of them may get smaller and smaller, but there will never be a nicotine free world.

So in that end if my kids were to start, which would I prefer? Vaping or smoking? Which would you prefer from your kids? It's enticing them in the same way coolers entice kids to drink, or berry flavored wine entices them to drink. Right now I can walk into a liquor store and find various fruity, chocolate or strawberry flavored drinks that would appeal to kids as much as adults.

So should we as adults forgo our palettes and preferences so that the kids may not be enticed? Seems narrow minded to hold that standard to only one industry out of many that may be bad for our kids. What about energy drinks and the damage that they do to the cardiovascular system and kidneys yet aren't regulated and any kid of any age can buy? There are so many hipocracies, on so many levels so why is this being scrutinized so much harder than the others.

We all know the answer to that, but that doesn't make it right. I especially like that they compare old China ejuice to antifreeze and whatnot, haven't looked back since and ignore all the poisons they could avoid with an ecig. The least they could do is have ongoing studies that get updated every non-smoking week and relate new info, but that would be against their self interest.

 

[kato1234]

Until e-cig are tested and approved as smoking cessation devices they will continue to be subject to attacks by politicians and groups like CLA. The patch, gum and the spray have all been approved by testing. I realize that this is an expensive and time consuming process but until someone bites the bullet and has it done we will be in a situation where we are using a banned substance and will have to put up with the problems that creates. If they were tested and approved we would be able to buy them much as we did analogs and I believe this would increase the number of people willing to try the and make it easier for those of us already using them. The price would probably increase but we would be assured? of getting a product without impurities. One of my concerns that they brought up is youth vaping and well it is easy to say that I would prefer children to vape over smoke I really don't want them doing either. I have tried to get my son that smokes to get into vaping by buying him a 510 kit but it hasn't worked yet. All I'm saying is that maybe testing and regulation is not the end of the world.

 

[Oriana871]

It appears now that CLA is blocking a number of people from their site, particularly if they have some research, evidence, really valid argument that puts CLA to shame. I posted the CLA rebuttal this morning and poof! I'm gone.

 

[nuclearbroccoli]

It appears now that CLA is blocking a number of people from their site, particularly if they have some research, evidence, really valid argument that puts CLA to shame. I posted the CLA rebuttal this morning and poof! I'm gone.

I thought it was just me...
At least from my phone, it seems that I can view their fb page, but can't comment.
Or is that just fb's mobile page just being stupid as usual?

EDIT: It appears that my comments have been deleted from the topic, and I've been blocked from posting.
What a load of crap. Apparently CLA doesn't like statistics against other stop smoking methods as there are no stats left in those comments....
That does it, I'm starting a group to respond to this garbage online media reporting.
Once I figure out some details, I'll post it here on ecf..

 

[Oriana871]

Chances are, you're banned. One way to tell is if any of your previous posts are missing.

 

[Projectguy]

touché.

I guess i was looking at something else which was the transference in this case. CLA put the onus on HC, FDA, WHO, and a few others, so i was looking directly at HC, WHO, and FDA thinking that is where the this call to action should go. I mean get this out to the media...write the letters to the news stations, news papers etc....the government does not like bad press and i am sure this would kick HC's ....'s into high gear.....

(if i can flag down project guy or Dusty who seem to understand politics better then myself, they might correct me here in my logic)

Some things to consider:

1. HC: They have huge issues to deal with. Its not just that e-cigs are IMO one of the most complex social issues that they will have ever dealt with, the other one coming to mind is abortion, they don't know where to start because it involves other branches of government specifically, the Canadian Revenue Agency. This is further complicated by the fact that this is a cross border issue.
   
2. CRA: Another government agency with more on its plate than you could imagine and some very painful lessons of the '70s. The lessons come from a first attempt to by governments to take on BT with massive increases in taxes on cigarettes. All it did was to drive the "problem" underground and effectively create the "First Nations smoke shop" and Grand River Enterprises of Six Nations.
   
3. BT: I'm certian that some of you are saying there he goes again - same old - same - old. Well I'll say it again and again but this time try to phrase it differently. BT is and continues to be a "dying business" but it is remarkably resiliant and has been able to weather many storms of government imposed fines in the countless of billions of dollars. Then along comes e-cigs. Well the corous of allaleuihas coming from the executive suites of BT is increasing and that means only one thing - get in and dominate. Wall Street has taken notice and is predicting the demise of alalogues within a 10 years time frame. No, that doesn't mean there will be no more alalogues what it will mean is a shift away by BT into the e-cig market with billions of dollars in R & D and marketing. The analogue market will be relegated to the LDC's, i.e., Africa.
   
4. BP: NRT's are just a product line and like thalidomide, a mounting data base of evidence will kill the Zybans and Champix of the world and a similar mounting data base of evidence as to the effectiveness of e-cigs will kill the patches, gum and inhalers. These data bases already exist you can find them in dozens of places on this and any other e-cig forum but every year they exist they grow deeper and more compelling and the more our community grows the better educated the general population becomes. "Owners" of these product lines, the non-executive managers of BP, will continue to justify their existance until the sales fall off and the negative data bases become impossible to ignore at the board level. The war on vapers is being waged by these middle managers who have the power to fund the CLA's of the world and keep the boards in the dark. As I'm sure you can all tell by now this has nothing to do with the health or well being of the users of BT products only the well being of the corporate entities that the respective boards of directors have a fiduciary responsibility to manage. Nothing personal its just business.
   
5. The Unholy Alliance: CRA and BT: Before discussing this we have to understand the dynamics surrounding why and when this unholy alliance will come into being. The best research I have been able to find is from the UK. The estimate is that in the OECD, excluding Japan there are 1 billion people. Rule of thumb is that the the percentage of the population that smokes is 20% (200 million smokers). Currently at least 25% of the smoking population is a vaper and has or will try an e-cig (50 million vapers). The numbers for North America are currently, today not tomorrow, TODAY is close to 4 million. On its own for a government vaping is its its worst nightmare:
   1. E-Cigs are an effective alternative to government sanctioned NRT products
   2. The e-cig consumer is middle class with sufficient disposable income to sustain the market and make it grow
   3. The e-cig consumer can withstand tax hits, prohibitions and misinformation
   4. The E-cig community has no identifiable leadership group. This is huge - how do you attack an organization when there is none? Attacking a community has huge downside because of an amorphous demographic. They are attacking a block of swing voters.
   5. The product itself - Nicotine aka Joose: Small packages and difficult to identify if there is Nicotine without in-lab testing.
   6. The Internet: Community, information, education, support, freedom of speech and TRADE & COMMERCE
   7. The E-Cig market is global and acts local
   
   All that to prep you for a theory. In a perfect world when government has come to the realization that it can't undo the e-cig market it will want to regulate and tax it. Government will gradually turn its policy on its head. It will approve the use of Nicotine in e-cigs but at a cost - joose will be taxed. And this is where BT comes in: they [BT] will be only too happy to act as the collection agent. They will make joose so easy to get and of such reliability and quality that the household names we know today will have no choice but and be happy to sell out to BT - Amen.
   
6. The Campagins Against E-Cigs: Well funded it is largely uneducated, poorly informed and ham fisted. Lets hope it stays that way. Campaigns such as the one the CLA mounted on 19 Jan 2013 has only served to teach us how to mobilize, to educate ourselves and others and to use our most effective subversive weapons of war ever invented; the internet and social media.
7. The Media: Acting like a drunken sailor at a bar at closing time looking for a date - the raunchier the better. Again as shown by the CLA, the 4th estate largely published without regard for accuracy or balance all that mattered was a flashy headline generating story.

The Vaping Response: We are too dam busy to go out and march: jobs, family, friends but we have the net and we are getting much better at using it. That is where our response should be launched from. As a community my advice is to stay away from the media use the net and social media to give heart felt, teary eyed testimonials but leave the debate and expert accounts for the media and the EXPERTS. We as a community must be like vapor translucent and uncontainable. Enough said

 

[WolfeReign]

The Vaping Response: We are too dam busy to go out and march: jobs, family, friends

Well yes....and no. Let me explain.

It was actually something my wife picked up on (and oddly she is not a vaper, but a ex smoker of 20 years) which i started to look at which I think i said a few times in the last few days, but it is said so quick and then presented with other BS that the human brain does not catch up on it.

How is a e-cigarette "classified" in Canada? How is the news presenting it? They are saying it is a smoking cession device. Does this not seem odd to any one else? Oh sure some vendors in Canada may or may not state it, but it is something that is being put out there.

This is where it is sticking in my craw but good. When i was shipping my first 808 kit from the USA (never had a issue since then getting things through customs) it was a Fumma system in 2011. If i reach further back to 2009 (when i seen my first e-cigarette in a pawn shop) it was advertised as being a safer harm reduction alternative to smoking (as per the news reports i see people posting on here). It was never claimed that you would stop smoking, but instead replacing your nicotine intake as a alternative to pumping in the countless other chemicals in a cigarette.

Do we have to march out in droves to the parliament buildings? Do we need a occupy the park movement? Do we need to ride the tails of idle no more? Do we need to tell every evil doer the stories of your past smoking lives? The answer is no. What do we need? Letters to the editor, ECTA getting radio spots out there, news paper ad's, even some weird duck wearing a sandwich sign walking the streets, saying a e-cigarette is not a cession device, but a alternative too....

Has not anyone ever wondered why we are in 2013 and already we have how many reports in Canada on e-cigarettes? 5? 20? 100? Has anyone ever stopped to wonder about this, and then thing there is some big changes about to hit (and i do not mean in a good way)? Before it is mentioned about little brother pharma, look at it this way: they see us using cession devices that they are not getting a cut on, someone has invaded their territory on it with no warning, no memo, not even a email. Get the word out it is a alternative and watch them be happy once again.