Anyone see blu's statement this morning?

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AlmityPunx

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i believe we are looking at this issue from 2 different points of view.

we all agree that there needs to be some long term scientific studies done on vaping. it needs to go through all the trials like any other product that they put up for approval. my issue is that if the FDA has their way, vaping will be outlawed almost completely which would make any sort of university study next to impossible. there have to be wins in public opinion to get the FDA to consider testing.
 

corruption42

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"wins in public opinion" that will force testing already happened: the market exists in the United States, and is a multi-million dollar thriving industry, growing hand over fist annually. They've taken notice of that, and thats why the looming hammer exists. Yes, as members of the ongoing experiment it is our duty to spread what knowledge is available, and explain to people what we're doing and more importantly WHY we do it -- but public visibility can easily take backlash too. I don't think we're necessarily looking at this from 2 perspectives, your last post is much more indicative of reason than your previous one. I think its just a matter of what we think is the right solution. I'm happy to admit that I don't know the answer to that one. The scientific conclusion, like always, will be mine -- science has a way of not skewing facts, like mathematics.
 

AlmityPunx

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i believe that the best solution here would be for the FDA to back off and endorse scientific trials. let the science be discovered before praise or condemnation.

earlier posts i was simply pointing out other areas of society where claims are made without science and them not taken to the courts by the FDA.

oh and Uncle Willie, there is a documented history of corruption with the FDA. check out this article and thats just one they have acknowledged
 

NancyR

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I agree the FDA needs to be fixed, but that doesn't mean we don't need them. Rather anyone wants to admit it or not the FDA has saved countless number of lives here in the USA, because of stuff they didn't allow in. Yes they have made a lot of mistakes and I do think they are over due for a major overhaul, but we are in no position to do away with them.

As to the stance on e-cigs: yes I feel better vaping than I did smoking, I have needed my inhalers less, I have had less issue with things like the acid reflux. So I do feel I made the right choice for me, but ya know we don't have the long term studies, so no one can say what inhaling the flavorings and what have you will do to us 10, 15, 30 years down the road. Maybe I just changed from one set of risks to another, and because it hasn't been that long I can't tell it yet. Let's face it, if all of us had noticed the effects that smoking had on us within a few months to a year, most of us wouldn't have been smoking for 10+ years.

That is part of why I disagree with non smokers starting to vape, wait and see what happens, not just with the FDA ruling, but long term.
 

Uncle Willie

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i believe that the best solution here would be for the FDA to back off and endorse scientific trials. let the science be discovered before praise or condemnation.

earlier posts i was simply pointing out other areas of society where claims are made without science and them not taken to the courts by the FDA.

oh and Uncle Willie, there is a documented history of corruption with the FDA. check out this article and thats just one they have acknowledged

Yes, I am aware of that letter .. however, that is till not hard evidence .. it is a letter with undisclosed writers ..

In any private or govenmental body of any size, a degree of corruption will exist .. it has been that way since society began and it will not change .. certain people can be swayed .. it's the same concept as Welfare Fraud .. people will game the system .. and you cannot hire one over Lord for each recipient ..

The point I'm making is the fundamental functionality of the system is still sound, regardless of a small minority ..

And we must deal with it under those circumstances .. because what do we have as an alternative .. ??
 

crxess

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The point I'm making is the fundamental functionality of the system is still sound, regardless of a small minority ..

I agree and also feel the same about the foundation of our government. Unfortunately Human Bricks have all but covered the foundation in lies and deceit for personal gain.
 

Uncle Willie

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I agree and also feel the same about the foundation of our government. Unfortunately Human Bricks have all but covered the foundation in lies and deceit for personal gain.

I won't disagree with that, however, We the People have elected our Governance .. and we have proven time and time again that the will of the People can prevail ..
 

IntelligentDesigner

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Do you really want the FDA to consider the PV a smoking cessation device .. ??

Noooo. Allow me to clarify, please. I don't want the FDA to label or consider e-cigs as a smoking cessation device, just to recognise that they can be used that way and allow manufacturers to market certain e-cig products that way. PVs have evolved way beyond just being just for smoking cessation. I just believe e-cigs would be a lot more popular if the manufacturers were allowed to market them and advertise their effectiveness in helping people quit smoking tobacco.

I think my sentiments were well expressed here:
i believe that the best solution here would be for the FDA to back off and endorse scientific trials. let the science be discovered before praise or condemnation.

However I must say that from some of the things I hear about some e-cig fluids dissolving plastic, perhaps some sort of regulation over what's in that stuff wouldn't be so bad.
 
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dsy5

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They are absolutely correct whether anyone here wants to admit it or not .. and I don't think their commercials promote any health improvements .. promotion of health aspects is not allowed by any vendor ..

Of course, vendors don't need to promote health they can just link folks to ECF where private individuals do all the promotion needed ..

Uncle Willie, you sound just like a troll!
 

corruption42

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How is that trolling? Its truth -- vendors aren't allowed to make claims about health benefits or smoking cessation, by law. On the other side of the coin, people can make all the claims they want -- just like pretty much anything. And ECF is chock full of anecdotal evidence about health benefits, when no one knows the long term benefits/harms. Sounds pretty factual to me; hard for facts to troll. :)
 

MaDeuce

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ECF is a source of information .. some right, some wrong .. just like any forum .. that's the American way .. if members choose to tout their anecdotal health claims, why would I have a problem with that .. ?? I am, after all, using a PV myself ..

The point is, a vendor cannot use health claims as a method to sell .. many on the forum, however, do it for 'em .. so, in a backdoor way, users are lead to believe it's a "healthy" alternative .. however, IMO, the jury is still out on that aspect ..

Ask me again in 20 years when long term information by both users and science is available ..

I agree with Willie. I cannot attest that PV's or e-cigs are a healthier alternative to analogs, and since I cannot foretell the future, I cannot tell you what the effects of vaping will have on me in 10 or 20 years. What I CAN tell you is that I do feel physically better since I put down analogs and there are plenty of studies telling me the HIGHLY PROBABLE effects those same analogs would have had on me in 10 or 20 years. It would be counterproductive to make claims that are not yet substantiated by fact.
 

Drael

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Please be aware that due to regulatory concerns, blu and many other companies that manufacture electronic cigarettes do not advertise or promote their products for the purpose of smoking cessation or as a healthier alternative to cigarettes. Additional research is being conducted by a variety of third parties regarding these issues. Please do not make such claims in the future when posting to our facebook page.

A triple blind on e-cigs for smoking cessation will be complete by the end of the year. So the FDA can say goodbye to that line.

Any fool can figure out that smoking is more dangerous, but the needed evidence for vaping being healthier will be in soon enough too (we already have some, like juice and vapour analysis), probably in about two years.

The FDA lets low fat products, vegetable oil etc claim health benefits with no medical studies directly on the products themselves (rather by virtue of mere statistical inference). Cognitive processes of a vogon.

But as is pointed out, such is not reserved for e-cigs. Herbal products can have studies proving benefit, and they are still not allowed to claim benefit. Foods can have no such studies and claim benefit based on essentially cultural dogma regarded heart disease etc.

Blu is just falling in line with all the other nonsense, until the studies are completed, which they should be soon enough.

However they still wont be able to claim anything until e-cigs are regulated somewhere and it has such provisions. They have been deemed "not a drug", so they cant go through the medical application process to gain access to claims.

Ultimately one hopes for americans, medical application type studies will be applicable for this ability to make claims, rather than some other style of standard, as that is the hoop course ruyan is already jumping through here in NZ and will presumably use for acheiving said status in other places where medical laws apply, like canada, and probably soon the EU.
 
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