Are "organic" e-liquids/flavorings more hazardous than artificial?

[Gato del Jugo]

If you want to vape organic e liquids only, by all means it's your choice. But if you want to engage in scaremongering, you should expect to hear the other side of the argument. You are right, vaping is about harm reduction, and i am under no illusion it is totally safe. I am worried about the production facilities of the vendors, about the accuracy of nicotine content, about proper disclosure of ingredients, about adherence to hygiene standards etc... But i am not worried that the extract of a fruit produced by conventional methods is less safe than the extract of a fruit produced by organic methods.

Your statements above have no basis in logic and and facts. You are engaging in the age old strawman and ad-hominem fallacy by creating an imaginary link to Monsanto and Dow Chemical and implicitly questioning the validity of studies that have shown traditionally grown produce are safe. You have'nt produced any coherent argument against the statements you are refuting. The fact is the huge percentage of organic products in the market are produced by the same giant conglomerates that sell conventional produce.

Consumer Reports is not paid by Monsanto ! If you show me even one scientific, published, peer reviewed study that concludes organic produce is safer and more nutritious than conventional produce, i will concede the argument.

The fact is as we have become more modernized and our food production technology has improved over the last two centuries, hunger has decreased world-wide and our life expectancy has continued to increase. I don't know what these imaginary illnesses are that you are linking to conventional foods.

You can take your chances with E. coli, and i will take mine with science.

The link to the full article btw. and the citations :
Organic Food Myths

You seriously want to play the link game? Over this? Because there's enough out there to last a lifetime.. But, okay (citations included )..

Took me all of 2 seconds, randomly picked one...

Health Effects of Synthetic Fertilizer

Not so sure cancer is considered "imaginary"...


Every company has something to sell.. They'll promote their product, and bash the competition -- in all sorts of ways, oftentimes not very obvious or transparent... (In fact, my link does just that! But that doesn't mean there's no science behind it sometimes, either...)

Not to take this thread off-track, but an example of this was the recent New York Times article bashing e-liquid.. Now which entities would prefer that people not use e-liquid, but instead use pre-filled carts (made by Big Tobacco), or "FDA-approved" NRTs such as patches or gum (made by Big Pharma), or even, gasp, continue to use heavily-taxed tobacco (which Big Government is addicted to)...


So tell me: Do you think large synthetic fertilizer & pesticide companies are just a wee bit concerned about an ever-growing organic industry which hurts their business? If so, do you think they'll just roll over without a fight, especially when money & possibly their very survival are at stake?


Enjoy your "totally safe" chemicals.. And I'll be sure to enjoy my E. coli...

 

[Mazinny]

You seriously want to play the link game? Over this? Because there's enough out there to last a lifetime.. But, okay (citations included )..

Took me all of 2 seconds, randomly picked one...

Health Effects of Synthetic Fertilizer

Not so sure cancer is considered "imaginary"...


Every company has something to sell.. They'll promote their product, and bash the competition -- in all sorts of ways, oftentimes not very obvious or transparent... (In fact, my link does just that! But that doesn't mean there's no science behind it sometimes, either...)

Not to take this thread off-track, but an example of this was the recent New York Times article bashing e-liquid.. Now which entities would prefer that people not use e-liquid, but instead use pre-filled carts (made by Big Tobacco), or "FDA-approved" NRTs such as patches or gum (made by Big Pharma), or even, gasp, continue to use heavily-taxed tobacco (which Big Government is addicted to)...


So tell me: Do you think large synthetic fertilizer & pesticide companies are just a wee bit concerned about an ever-growing organic industry which hurts their business? If so, do you think they'll just roll over without a fight, especially when money & possibly their very survival are at stake?


Enjoy your "totally safe" chemicals.. And I'll be sure to enjoy my E. coli...

No, i seriously don't want to play the linking game, as you call it ! I merely linked to the article i quoted from, so that you can check the citations for alleged links to Monsanto ! And i would make a guess that the site you linked to was not randomly found in 2 seconds, but is an indicator of the sort of literature you get your information, and argumentative skills from. I ask for scientific, peer reviewed citations, and you link me to a site selling organic and holistic stuff, with new-agey mumbo jumbo with their link to scaremongering unreviewed, and often uncited and unlinked articles.

I really don't want to get in a back and forth with you over the safety of conventional food produce, as it's getting away from the topic. I merely stated my understanding of the facts re conventional and organic foodstuff as it relates to extracts used in e liquids. You are the one that started this by mocking my quote, and i will be ending it.

I will let the quality of the respective links and arguments stand on their own. I don't have the ability nor desire, to convince you of anything you don't want to be convinced of.

Enjoy your vape and have a great day.

 

[Gato del Jugo]

I don't know what these imaginary illnesses are that you are linking to conventional foods.

And i would make a guess that the site you linked to was not randomly found in 2 seconds, but is an indicator of the sort of literature you get your information, and argumentative skills from. I ask for scientific, peer reviewed citations, and you link me to a site selling organic and holistic stuff, with new-agey mumbo jumbo with their link to scaremongering unreviewed, and often uncited and unlinked articles.

Actually, it was a 2-second search.. "fertilizer cancer"... Anybody can do it, if they choose to read more about it...

Apparently this isn't well-known? That long-term exposure to synthetic fertilizers & pesticides are linked to increased rates of all kinds of cancer? Even from objective sources & studies?


And yep, it has everything to do with this thread.. Where do you think the raw material for e-liquid ingredients comes from?


Anyway, I'm sorry my poor debating skills are driving you from this thread...

 

[donwuan]

We are American at the end of the day. So we are extremely gullible people. First it was organic, vegan(Florida), now gluten free(not towards people with real gluten issues).and I wonder what's next.

^^^^
In a world where opinion is fact and people believe things they read on internet.

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[odysseysteve]

Diacetyl is organic and its a flavoring. Just sayin... blanket statements... stupid...

So you intentionally misquote me - then call me stupid. Like what is your issue? Need a hug?

 

[hazarada]

You do realize that a word can have more than one definition, right?

Not when the definitions have overlapping differences.
You could for instance claim "This flavoring is organic but its not organic." with the first "organic" meaning that its made out of plant stuff and the second "not organic" meaning that the plant stuff was grown using artificial pesticides. The sentence makes no sense.

But if you really feel that strongly about it, then you might want to contact Merriam-Webster...

google "organic definition" and see what pops up.. in most dictionaries the meaning relating to food or farming is little more then a footnote

I could be wrong, but sounds like you're trolling a bit...

Since when did having a differing opinion become synonymous with trolling? I'm accused of this a lot lately..
Regardless, I don't know where the food related definition of organic came from, but, I do know that it was popularized by marketing right along with "natural", "local" and other crap like that.

If one is trying to claim that their product was grown using no artificial compounds, why not just clearly state "Grown without using artificial compounds" on their label instead of using something obscure like "Organic"? Never trust anybody whose trying to sell you something.

 

[hazarada]

So you intentionally misquote me - then call me stupid. Like what is your issue? Need a hug?

How is that a misquote? Also I didn't call you stupid, i called blanket statements like that stupid. If you feel like passing that on to yourself then that is your choice.

 

[chapeltown]

Here's my opinion....

When I think "organic", naturally I think "grown in poop".
Typically speaking, Organic to me actually refers to produce (fruits and veggies) grown with fertilizer from ........poop....rather than chemical sources. It also should mean that the seeds were not genetically modified (gmo). The difference; with produce, should be higher nutritional content, because it hasn't been scientifically engineered to produce quantity at the expense of quality.

Setting aside that point, you could say that eliquids that are "organic", could have flavorings that are derived from food sources that were not genetically modified and don't have extra chemicals. This would be great, but somewhat a needless and moot point. We do not ingest flavorings for nutritional purposes. We want purity, and good flavor, but we aren't trying to get vitamin A out of our vape juice.

Organic should not be the point. Purity should. Also, since you mention it, many have argued that synthetic eliquid flavorings are actually easier for our systems to process. I am not certain. I will tell you this. When I compare one liquid company to another, I can see where there is a vast difference in how I feel, even if both companies are trying to sell me something from their "organic" line. I have had "organic" juice that came to me a lovely caramel color. I have also had "organic" juice that came to me clear as crystal. The clear juice was typically easier on me than the caramel colored stuff. I have a sensitive system. But to me.....I want purity I can "see", regardless of the label.

 

[hazarada]

this is where language is headed

 

[RT88]

we need Science Police to enforce on the Irony Police. The main thrust of Organic is no pesticides, no GMO.

what other parameters have you found that differentiate between the two?

 

[Purplepeeps]

Please keep in mind this is my opinion - not presented as fact - and is gleaned from my first hand experiences.

I do believe vaping VG e-juice with only organic flavorings is indeed safer for my health. It is all I vape. Early on in my vape journey my body made it plain to me that vaping PG is a bad thing for me to do. So I switched to all VG. Much better. Then I found the artificial flavorings I was using in my DIY juice were causing me problems to I switched to organic flavorings. Much better again and this is what I vape now.

For any of those interested I would suggest you check out Guilty Pleasures Organics. Their site has a ton of information you may find enlightening.

Take care!

If you don't mind sharing, what kinds of issues were you having?

 

[Coldrake]

Not when the definitions have overlapping differences.
You could for instance claim "This flavoring is organic but its not organic." with the first "organic" meaning that its made out of plant stuff and the second "not organic" meaning that the plant stuff was grown using artificial pesticides. The sentence makes no sense.

google "organic definition" and see what pops up.. in most dictionaries the meaning relating to food or farming is little more then a footnote

What you are completely failing to understand is that we are talking about organic certification standards. You can argue all day that wombat droppings are organic, (which they are,) but that has nothing to do with what we are talking about here.

Since when did having a differing opinion become synonymous with trolling? I'm accused of this a lot lately..

Does that tell you anything?

 

[~Sue~Feb2012]

we need Science Police to enforce on the Irony Police. The main thrust of Organic is no pesticides, no GMO.

what other parameters have you found that differentiate between the two?

May I borrow this phrase for future reference? Thanks.

Carry on

 

[hazarada]

The main thrust of Organic is no pesticides, no GMO.
what other parameters have you found that differentiate between the two?

how about "no pesticides" and "no GMO" but maybe being clear is just crazy

What you are completely failing to understand is that we are talking about organic certification standards.

If you can be arsed to go back a few pages, you'll see my opinion on the matter. What follows and what people are failing to grasp is the fact that organic certification follows my definition of organic to the letter while everybody else is slapping all these magical properties on the word.

Does that tell you anything?

Yes, people hate being wrong.

 

[RT88]

 

[Mariannef2]

I am looking for pure extracts rather than flavorings, namely PEACH. I make my own juice and have found the peach flavors from the major vendors taste like peach candy or peach jolly ranchers. I haven't been able to find any vendors that sell natural peach flavoring for ejuice. Anyone have more info on this?

 

[firephly]

it's not a flavoring but highbrow vapor makes their peach thymbra from real peaches

 

[captknots]

Well if the flavor is macerated with antoin i believe its called its far safer as without the antoin most fruits creat diacitol durring the maceration thru fermentation. In other words no one really knows but without antoin it is certainly more harmful due to the diacitol which isknown to cause popcorn lung (sorry for my spelling errors xp)

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[Speed Vap0r]

I'm new to all this but I will say that anytime I see Organic anything I automatically get suspicious due to what "Organic" can encompass..I guess I'm just a bit skeptical of the whole process.