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ScottP

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This is the problem with “trump administration announced” There’s a real act before think issue there that’s been going on for a long time.

Trump certainly didn't invent that though. The whole "act before thinking" has been going on for several decades at least.

Just one example:
"We're heading for the next ice age if we don't do something about car emissions immediately" - Scientists in the 1970's that got Washington to create the law requiring all cars to have catalytic convertors.

Oddly enough those catalytic convertors actually convert the car emissions into Co2 which now seems to be causing global warming. Maybe we should just take them off and go back to the old emissions that were supposedly causing the Earth to cool.
 
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muth

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iqos will probably cost as much as smoking. Once you start a cartridge you have to keep puffing until is done, like a cigarette. I mix and rebuild. Iqos is not my thing but may be it will get people off cigs until they're smart enough to switch to vaping, even lower risk and lower cost, unless vaping is eliminated to insure Iqos success? Our dear, dear government wouldn't do that to us, right?
Get them out of bed with Big T and Big P and maybe they won't.
 

ScottP

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Get them out of bed with Big T and Big P and maybe they won't.

That would be a great idea except that the people that could pass such laws are the ones that benefit from the way it currently is. I just don't see them ever passing any law that stops them from getting more money.
 

muth

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Is everyone still phoning the WhiteHouse switchboard, emailing their representative, 2 senators and state reps every few days? If not, why not? Also, to get to Trump directly, you can do that on Twitter.
I wrote an email today to my governor with links in it. But thank you for reminding me. I need to make some calls.
 

bombastinator

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Trump certainly didn't invent that though. The whole "act before thinking" has been going on for several decades at least.

Just one example:
"We're heading for the next ice age if we don't do something about car emissions immediately" - Scientists in the 1970's that got Washington to create the law requiring all cars to have catalytic convertors.

Oddly enough those catalytic convertors actually convert the car emissions into Co2 which now seems to be causing global warming. Maybe we should just take them off and go back to the old emissions that were supposedly causing the Earth to cool.
Before my time, mostly. I was a kid. Global warming has been on the radar earlier than that but until the 90’s no one was sure whether it would produce warming or cooling. I forget what chemicals got spit out of leaded gas tailpipes. All I remember is they were pretty ugly and they stayed in the atmosphere. I do know that different chemicals produce vastly different amounts of global warming. CO2 is mostly bad because there’s so very much of it. A single CO2 molecule is really kind of middling at best. One of the worst ones is sulferhexaflouride which is 26 times worse than CO2.

The most common global warming element by far is water. We’re saved from it though because it tends to fall out of the atmosphere and cause us to use our windshield wipers. The issue with global warming compounds is they affect the water cycle. There are apparently a bunch of feedback loops. I don’t really understand it. Apparently small amounts of additional stuff has a large effect because of these loops. I merely watched a YouTube video for kids about it. Any given 12 year old probably has a better grasp.
 

bombastinator

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Getting “optomistic”s on this one so it appears I should state my source.


Here’s a thing on what was IN leaded gasoline
Why Lead Used to Be Added To Gasoline
Apparently they were mostly after carbon monoxide with catalytic converters but they also wanted to get rid of the lead. The CO2 amount didn’t actually go up much. Engines always produced CO2

Thinking about it more one thing I do remember, not sure from when, is that there was corporate money behind catalytic converters adoption and it came from Detroit.

Detroit was afraid of Japanese cars. They had newer much more flexible factory designs that made cars cheaper, faster, and better, but could also be retooled much much faster. Detroit was a decade behind. The idea was that such a fundamental change in US regulation would make foreign cars effectively illegal. It didn’t work. Honda’s cvcc engine was so good at what it did that it was able to just keep going. Detroit merely hobbled itself internationally. Water under the bridge now.
Corporate executives didn’t say it that way of course. They blamed unions even though the unions didn’t control factory design, corporate executives did. It was all BS. Rich people blaming poor people for the problems the rich created.
US manufacturing has long since caught up and they make some of the best cars in the world now.
 
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Izan

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bombastinator

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Optimistic was given because of "CO2 is mostly bad because there’s so very much of it"
Nitrogen 78%
Oxygen 21%
Argon .9%
CO2 .03% (with .0291% being naturally occurring)
Other .07%

Don't buy into the fear!
The 1970's Global Cooling Compilation – looks much like today
Cheers
I
Yeah, but you’re not paying attention to the feedback loop thing. 0.3% is more than too much. The “causes 20%” thing is apparently still true. It’s just a massive oversimplification according to the video. When you turn on a tap you get many buckets of water. You didn’t carry many buckets of water, all you did was turn a dial. Barely any motion, giant amounts of water. Greenhouse gasses aren’t The water, they’re the dial.

That sulfur hexaflouride stuff isn’t a significant problem because it’s parts per trillion. It’s much worse but there’s barely any of it right now.
 

Rossum

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CO2 .03% (with .0291% being naturally occurring)
Actually, it it's now slightly above 0.04%. That's a fairly substantial increase.

But guys, we are way off topic here. There's a whole Climate Change thread in the Outside if you want to discuss this.
 

bombastinator

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Optimistic was given because of "CO2 is mostly bad because there’s so very much of it"
Nitrogen 78%
Oxygen 21%
Argon .9%
CO2 .03% (with .0291% being naturally occurring)
Other .07%

Don't buy into the fear!
The 1970's Global Cooling Compilation – looks much like today
Cheers
I
Looked at your link. Sounds right but you’re drawing the wrong conclusion. In the 70’s there was beginning to be enough science to know that a problem existed and it was logarithmic. They didn’t know enough about the problem to tell which way it would tip, but they knew it was there. It won’t be visible until it’s already nearly out of control. It’s starting to be visible. I think revelations actually spoke about this one.

My dad contracted a horrible fatal disease in the 1970s called CJD. It’s like mad cow but slower. It’s logarithmic too. No one could even tell he had it till he started shaking and falling over. He was dead in 3 weeks. Towards the end he was so far gone he attempted to attack my stepmother with a golf club because he thought he was “defending the house”. Thank god he didn’t have a gun.

UPDATE:
Bah. Ninja post with @Eskie . Didn’t see his till I posted mine. He is right.
 
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fiddleshe

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Izan

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Actually, it it's now slightly above 0.04%. That's a fairly substantial increase.

But guys, we are way off topic here. There's a whole Climate Change thread in the Outside if you want to discuss this.
Fair play.
I just abhor the abuse of Fear, Bread and Circus.

Cheers
I
 
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