Aspire official statement on Atlantis coils material
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Nope, nothing more exciting than them shooting themselves in the corporate foot.
I like to understand and assess these things. There are those who prefer to do more research and draw their own conclusions based on details they consider relevant that guide device and liquid selections. Given the variety of solutions available, there are a lot of choices one can make. Ultimately I have to decide what I consider the least risk and be comfortable with that.
It sounds like you're comfortable with your decision and that's good. I don't share your confidence, but it doesn't mean you're wrong and I am right, we just view the risks and process differently. And I don't need to trust you about anything, they're your lungs, so long as you trust it, that's all that matters.
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I think the biggest problem right now with the Aspire Atlantis coils is folks pushing them far beyond their intended use power levels. The 5 coils I have used and taken apart all look good with just a slight discoloring around the material facing the coil. And it looks like just the typical discoloring from juice saturation and residue form normal use. But, I only vape them at 25watts and that's well within the intended range of these coils. I cringe when I hear people pushing these far past the stated limits vaping at 45 to 60watts. They were just not manufactured to survive that kind of heat. I guess one of the downsides of the coil is that they are so resililant and actually put up with that abuse and still deliver a passable vape even when they have burned through the material facing the coil. It might have been better if they had a distinct taste of dog rockets if the initial wicking layer was burned.
I am all for investigating potential issues with these coil, but honestly, when used within their intended power range I just haven't seen an issue yet. Anecdotal I know since it is just my experience, but that's what I've experienced.
I am all for investigating potential issues with these coil, but honestly, when used within their intended power range I just haven't seen an issue yet. Anecdotal I know since it is just my experience, but that's what I've experienced.
I have two dual coil atty setups on mechanical mods I use all the time and know very well right now. I don't think the difference between single coil vs dual coils is significant for this comparison. The first is my all day vape in a small RDA (bottom fed Cyclone) at 0.3 ohms so about 45 watts max after voltage drop. I use 27 gauge wire in that build and get a heat flux of 470 mW/mm². It's used on a Reo bottom feeder so I can squonk every couple of drags. The wicks are always really saturated because of that and I get a cool vape from it even if the coils and wicks get pretty gunked up. I drilled out the air holes to 3.25mm each, significantly bigger than stock. I take lung hits all the time with both of these setups.
The second one is a Mutation X at 0.18 ohms with 24 gauge wire at about 70 watts max. This is my cloud chasing setup and comes in at 429 mW/mm². The Mutation X has a lot of air flow when I open it up all the way which makes for a cold vape with a lot of vapor. It's still a cool vape with only 3 of 9 air holes per side open at that power but flavor is better and that's how I usually vape it. This is also a very dependable vape that I pretty much have to work at to get a burnt hit from. Neither of these setups burn the rayon wicks I use.
I modeled the Atlantis coil at 0.5 ohms and 30 watts. Using 25 gauge Kanthal (0.45mm diameter) it would need a 5mm ID to have 3 coils and the heat flux would be 375 mW/mm². This is a setup that would not need a lot of air flow (compared to what I'm used to) to keep the coil cool.
Using 26 gauge wire (0.41mm diameter) it would need a 4mm ID to maintain 0.5 ohms and 3 coils and would have a heat flux of 531 mW/mm². This is a much hotter coil which would need a lot of air flow to avoid burning things.
So, coil dimensions are critical for these models and the wire could be Kanthal or Nichrome which have different resistances per gauge. I've never gone higher than 470 mW/mm² so I don't know at what point reasonably open air flow doesn't prevent burning wicks or juice. I can do that experiment with my gear, but I don't have a Atlantis tank to compare air flow to.
I think if someone could give me better dimensions for ID and wire diameter that would be a good start to get a handle on this atty setup. Does anyone know if the wire is Kanthal? If anyone has replaced the coil, did you use Kanthal in the middle and did it have the same number of coils and resistance?
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Kanger dual coils have the same build, but there is an additional flavor wick in between the coils. No wrap around the coil:
That's an interesting picture Katya. Building my own coils this is something I notice right away. Check out the coil the arrow is pointing at:
Coils depend on contact with he wick to keep them wet and cool. Did Kanger really publish this picture?!
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I agree. Nobody makes consistent coils--that's why people rebuild them. Not so much to save money, but to get a better vape.
IMO the gunk was what you didn't inhale
The coil was not gunked when it was fresh. At that point the cotton sheath could have stopped any fibers from being inhaled. Once the cotton was burned away the ceramic fiber might have been contained by the gunk. Or maybe not.
If I were going to depend on this kind of 'science' to prevent harm to my lungs after going through hundreds of these attys, I would need more proof they are safe.
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No, that is not all that we are doing.
You sound like you think knowledge is dangerous?
I certainly can't relate to being threatened by fact seeking / truth seeking. I can't see how exploring this piece of hardware would be a problem for anyone?
Please don't include me in that "we". Many vapers are concerned about learning more about the risks as well as the safety of vaping.
There are no truly educated people who reject scientific inquiry on the basis that they might not "like" what they find. Scientific model, even from the early Greek astronomers, if you have a Hypothesis you Experiment. Gather Data. Test.
Without that, we'd remain victims of archaic beliefs, like the earth being flat.
(however, I do understand the Flat Earth Society does have actual members.
)As it stands, I have no desire to be a victim of Marketing 101, so I really welcome the work vapers are putting into topics of this sort.
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A bit more info please dr g
It's vapor joe. he's far from altruistic in this, he makes a lot of money off various chinese companies. and having recently been in a position to have some industry information before he did, and having seen what information he ended up putting out -- and the attitude he copped... anything that isn't concrete black-and-white that he puts out needs to be taken with a big grain of salt.
he's basically the fox news of vaping.
Ryedan, you mean more proof that they provide Harm Reduction
That is my point. What good does it do to get the proof as to how much "less harmful" it is?
It is all harmful.
Ryedan, you mean more proof that they provide Harm Reduction
That is my point. What good does it do to get the proof as to how much "less harmful" it is?
It is all harmful.
I'll attempt it
Stated early.
Dr. Farsalinos is doing a study that will provide evidence on a number of these issues, so that's proof based on science, as are a number of his other papers. All we are doing is making personal observations here. There are some things we do know and some things we don't know. We all speculate that vaping is less harmful than smoking, but smoking has many more years of observation, medical surveillance and scientific study. Vaping does not (yet). Vaping appears to be less harmful and some people have made a choice to do it over smoking. Some do it purely as vapers (me for instance) and accept the risk that gap represents.
I've watched my 77 year old mother recover some quality of life and lung function while suffering COPD after smoking since she was 14 years old and who now vapes instead. Her medical condition actually improved and her quality of life as well. To me thats enough proof that there is some worthwhile quantity of harm reduction. Can I measure it to a number or a conclusion? No, but I bet she can. We've seen the dire medical consequences of smoking and have accepted that - most people have personal experiences with friends or loved ones living with, or who have died because of it's complications.
There are people here who don't want this discussion for a number of reasons. One, one they feel it gives the ANTZ ammunition and two, they perceive it to threaten some aspect of their rationale for vaping. The ANTZ community doesn't want vaping on principle because it resembles smoking and its doubtful that their hardcore members will ever accept any of our positions or even the solid science of it when its finally presented.
Free speech and action often comes with the price of having to listen to dissenting opinions and positions and choose to disagree and co-exist regardless of that disagreement. Whether we like it or not, these are questions our community members are struggling with and want to talk about, regardless of whether VprJoe is a FOXNEWS style opportunist or not. Its gone beyond his blog statement, regardless of his motives. I honestly don't care what a media shill thinks, its not my concern and the conflict of interest he is in invalidates his statements.
We aren't trying to prove how much less harmful that reduction is - this is a discussion around aspects of a particular atomizer and its possible shortcomings. We've all already accepted the harm reduction and the risk gap by vaping. Its like you're standing up in a church meeting amongst the faithful and in the middle it demanding proof of God. I didn't bite, so you're drawing Ryedan into a prima facie argument and filibustering it, but its not what this thread is about.
you know...
i've been on some other forums before. (imagine that)
and i find it hysterically funny (embarrassing since i'm sometimes involved in the discussions)...
that this forum is likely the only one i've been on with a near 100% adult user base... (assuming someone under 18 has snuck in at some point)...
and the only one that's pretty much dedicated to human harm reduction and/or safer/healthier alternatives to one of our common vices...
and somehow... every time safety/health is brought up for one aspect or another... this is by a massive margin... where i see the most resistance on the subject.
it's befuddling.
other forums include kids toys (RC - with a large youngster user base) (think 13 to 15 yr old kids in droves that each know more about advanced battery technology and care than almost the entire user base on this forum)
amphibian forums (people take better care of their pets that offer no affection than they do themselves) (some smokers have even filtered the air into their pets cage or smoke outside so the pet isn't affected by it)
fish forums (like fish tanks... this group by far outweighs the others on the science and technology/practices of harm reduction and general care... and efforts taken for such)
etc. ...
it's astonishing, the difference.
i've been on some other forums before. (imagine that)
and i find it hysterically funny (embarrassing since i'm sometimes involved in the discussions)...
that this forum is likely the only one i've been on with a near 100% adult user base... (assuming someone under 18 has snuck in at some point)...
and the only one that's pretty much dedicated to human harm reduction and/or safer/healthier alternatives to one of our common vices...
and somehow... every time safety/health is brought up for one aspect or another... this is by a massive margin... where i see the most resistance on the subject.
it's befuddling.
other forums include kids toys (RC - with a large youngster user base) (think 13 to 15 yr old kids in droves that each know more about advanced battery technology and care than almost the entire user base on this forum)
amphibian forums (people take better care of their pets that offer no affection than they do themselves) (some smokers have even filtered the air into their pets cage or smoke outside so the pet isn't affected by it)
fish forums (like fish tanks... this group by far outweighs the others on the science and technology/practices of harm reduction and general care... and efforts taken for such)
etc. ...
it's astonishing, the difference.
I hear ya dr g. I initially thought he was obviously wrong. After participating in this thread I think he may have a valid point which at the least justifies more investigation.
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you know...
i've been on some other forums before. (imagine that)
and i find it hysterically funny (embarrassing since i'm sometimes involved in the discussions)...
that this forum is likely the only one i've been on with a near 100% adult user base... (assuming someone under 18 has snuck in at some point)...
and the only one that's pretty much dedicated to human harm reduction and/or safer/healthier alternatives to one of our common vices...
and somehow... every time safety/health is brought up for one aspect or another... this is by a massive margin... where i see the most resistance on the subject.
it's befuddling.
other forums include kids toys (RC - with a large youngster user base) (think 13 to 15 yr old kids in droves that each know more about advanced battery technology and care than almost the entire user base on this forum)
amphibian forums (people take better care of their pets that offer no affection than they do themselves) (some smokers have even filtered the air into their pets cage or smoke outside so the pet isn't affected by it)
fish forums (like fish tanks... this group by far outweighs the others on the science and technology/practices of harm reduction and general care... and efforts taken for such)
etc. ...
it's astonishing, the difference.
Holy crap, we've probably talked on other forums [emoji1]. I was huge into reef tanks for years (reefcentral & über frags) and I'm now hooked on RC aircraft (used to be on RCGroups, but hated all the bickering and trolling...now on helifreak and runryder).
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