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AV referendum not worth taking part in? Not on your nelly

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PlanetScribbles

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Voting reform referendum: A 'yes' could be death for David Cameron | Mail Online

The looming referendum on changing the voting system hasn’t exactly captured the public imagination. It might as well not be happening.
The few voters who are aware of the referendum could be forgiven for thinking that the issue is the preserve of political anoraks and over-excited TV pundits who wave their arms about wildly, pointing to swingometers on election night.
But while the referendum campaign may appear to be a boring non-event, the potential consequences of the result on May 5 are simply enormous. At stake is nothing less than David Cameron’s premiership, and the future of the electoral system under which Britain has, for generations, enjoyed long periods of relatively stable single-party government.
In just six weeks’ time, voters will be offered the historic choice between sticking with the ‘first-past-the-post’ system for Westminster elections or switching to something called the Alternative Vote (AV).

Don't be fooled into thinking it is a non-event, this is the biggest thing you will ever vote on. At stake is whether we have to persevere with a two-party system where you get Con or Lab in alternating doses every four years, or a govt composed of the people and by the people who actually have 50% of the vote. No more MPs voted in with a pathetic 29% of the popular vote under AV.
A yes vote could bring down this coalition too, this referendum has repercussions of enormous magnitude. Can you put up with another four years of these cuts? We won't have a UK left by 2015 under these butchers. Even if a yes vote secures a change of ideology in govt, it has to be done.
 

rolygate

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How do you see this, personally, in relation to the proportional representation issue?

In our position, it might be wise to note that the only reason ecigs are not now banned in the UK is because of the change in government - if the Labour party was still in power, ecigs would now be banned. There is no question about that whatsoever. It also means that when the govt. changes back again, we are going to be in trouble.
 

rolygate

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I'm not into politics at all as I think the end result, in general, is much of a muchness. But on individual issues there can be a big difference, which is the main reason I don't want to see the govt. change back. Otherwise I don't have any interest, so please don't take my commentary on Con v Lib v Lab as meaning anything at all - it's just that a Labour govt. will allow e-cigs to be regulated as a medicine. If you are a vaper and want to keep being one you won't vote Lab.

It's finally become a voting issue now that the battle lines have been drawn. I always wondered when that would happen, and this is a lot sooner than I expected. I understand that this will cause some issues for Lab supporters - but they will need to weigh up what is most important to them.
 

PlanetScribbles

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The fact that it is the Daily Fail running the story goes miles to showing how important it is for the tories to secure a 'no' vote. No way would a rank right wing rag like them run the story unless they were very concerned indeed. No way would I usually use a Mail story as they are so horribly biased in their reporting, just like the 'Torygraph'.
The paper itself always slants to the tories POV, hence later in the story I quoted they try to spin it at all costs. It is very, very clear which way The Fail wants the vote to go.

The cuts are fact, if you don't believe that then you must have blinkers on to the world. You really hold a position that says pensioners will not see a cut in their essential winter fuel payments? One that denies hospitals, schools, libraries, bus services, charities will be forced to close? One that pretends disabled people wont be cynically thrown onto the lower paid JSA and forced to find jobs that are simply not there to be had, even if they were able bodied? One that will see High Streets turned into ghost towns whilst hypermarkets prosper? I think you are buying into your own spin mate. Can you really sit there and support a govt that lied it's way into power. I can't, it makes me feel sick.

Roly, I see lots of ppl saying how they are going to vote 'no' and hang on for a PR system. How is that going to happen? PR is not, nor has ever been, on the table. It was smashed down in Parliament when Clegg tried to get it, hence him calling AV "a miserable little compromise". AV is the best we are going to get, and anyone waiting for PR will be waiting a very long time. It just isn't going to happen in our lifetimes.

I'm not a Labourite btw, I think Miliband is a weak leader, I just want fairness in the popular vote. I live in the ultra safe Brentwood & Ongar seat where my vote is actually worth 0.053 of a vote in reality unless I vote tory. AV will give ppl the confidence to vote with their heart, whether it be for green, ukip, or whatever, safe in the knowledge that their second preference is there as a failsafe. We could see some interesting coalitions, which stop single party ideology running rampant for a whole five year term. Imagine a pro-Europe party trying to push us into the Euro with UKIP as a coalition partner for example. It just could not happen.

As for e-cigs, what will be will be. I would happily trade the right to vape unchecked, indefinitely, for sensible regulation if it meant getting a govt that cares about ordinary people. AV doesn't favour Labour no more than it favours LibDems. It simply gives people the chance to cast a real vote and not be forced to make a tactical one that doesn't reflect their true politics. Tories will only ever care about money interests and their millionaire ex-Bullingdon chums business concerns. The conservative party is fatally flawed to always cause social unrest, it's what they are good at.

I am most definitely in the Yes2AV camp.
 

PlanetScribbles

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amazing. Don't be fooled by slanted Labourite rhetoric, typical of hysteria being spread about 'drastic' cuts... check the facts here

No one, or almost no one, will point out the amazing truth, which is that these cuts — variously described as ‘savage’ or ‘draconian’ or, by the TUC, as a ‘massacre’ — are actually comparatively mild. Far from being ‘slashed’, public expenditure at the end of the process in 2014-15 will be a mere three per cent lower in real terms than it was in 2009-10 before the cuts began.

Just wanted to comment on this lame doublespeak. Sure, I buy that spending is only down by 3%. What the Fail doesn't say is that it is only 3% down because they are giving mega rich corporations a 5% decrease in Corporation Tax, just one example of taking from the poor to give to the rich. This whole budget was fiscally neutral, the whole thing an exercise in robbing from children, families and pensioners to give to the City.
 

PlanetScribbles

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BBC News - Voting referendum: William Dartmouth's view

AV would go some way to redressing the imbalances and unfairness that is the inevitable consequence of first-past-the-post. Last May, UKIP polled 919,546 votes and did not even come close to winning a seat in Westminster.
Compare that to the Democratic Unionist Party in Northern Ireland, which polled just 168,216 votes and were rewarded with eight seats

How is that a fair representation of the electorate's wishes?
 

PlanetScribbles

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PlanetScribbles

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Voter Power Index - the Alternative Vote Referendum Edition

Type in the name of your town to find out what your vote is worth under the current system. A little fun if nothing else. My vote has a real terms value of 0.057 of a vote, it's no wonder i'm disillusioned about FPTP. No matter who I vote for, I know i'm going to get a tory. Even though he is forcing our council to have our very nice town hall demolished, he will still be a standing dish in a largely conservative area of rich folk.
 

PlanetScribbles

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This made me lol ...

av-dogs.gif


:laugh::laugh:
 
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