Backwoods Brew :(

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smonomo

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And here is his exact response

"Sorry but liquids are not returnable cause they are not to your liking. They are a consumable item and I would be surprised if any company ever did this."

Would it have been so hard for it him to reply with something like this:

Hey Mark,

I'm sorry you didn't enjoy those juices. What didn't you like? Maybe I could suggest some better flavors for you. Unfortunately I will not be able to refund the items at this time. Please let me know if there is anything else I can help you with.

Thank you,
I much prefer the first one, sounds like a real person, a backwoods country boy perhaps, but on the money with the reason for not being returnable, however, one very important thing missing in the response is not addressing you with Hi Mark, Hey Mark etc, assuming that it's an exact quote.
I would have told you to keep the juice, and offered to send you some freebie samples...maybe.

The second one sounds like a sickening tele marketing corporate recording...aaakk!

Not taking sides here, I'm not a customer.
 

basilray

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Honestly, that kind of a response isn't what I would have expected from Don. However, I don't think that he's wrong in stating that because it's a consumable and there wasn't anything "wrong" with the juice per se, that he would not accept a return.

Just imagine the kind of response that would have come from a certain proprietor of a certain juice vendor of a Tasty variety...if you catch my drift.
 

ScottB

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Mr OP,

BwB has a crystal clear Return Policy statement linked from the Main Menu. The applicable part states:

In order to return the product we must first be contacted by the original purchaser. If you wish to return our e-Liquid just because you dont care for a flavor, it can not be returned. (emphasis mine)

Had he chosen to be impolite, he could easily have referred you to the site & the statement and said nothing more.

Just guessing, but that statement probably exists because of issues like this. I don't believe it lacks clarity.
 

Vapenstein

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Imagine being a vendor and having to deal with all the people who bought something and didn't like it. Not because of a defect in the product, but just from a matter of personal taste. You can't make everyone happy.

People should always order the smallest amount possible of any juice the first time they order it. Even then, there is a home for EVERY juice waiting in the ECF classified forum.
 

guitardedmark

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Guitar...Not everyone is going to taste things the same way, His response to you, was IMO fine sweety, Polite
& fair...

Ya maybe it was. I've just heard SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many things about how amazing he was an how friendly and interested in juice and his customers that I really did expect a lot more. I work as a customer service technical support manager and so I got irked when he didnt take the extra 15 seconds to be professional with his response. It was almost like he txted me... I never said he was rude or unfair. I just said it was the worst experience I have had vaping. I have had worse juice but as far as the entire process of this order I have never been more disappointed.
 

guitardedmark

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Have only ordered from BWB once but love the Casablanca, great when I got it and even better after a couple of weeks. Cherry was good too, but a bit weak when I got it so letting it steep. Even weak it is the best cherry flavor I have tried yet. And it was shipped the next day after ordering. BWB will be my vendor for tobacco liquid hands down after trying Casablanca.

When I ordered my first liquids ever, I bought them from another vendor that is raved and raved about here. When I got them I did not really like any of them, some flavors were not what I expected and to me they all hardly had any taste . Since I had read that they were so friendly and would help newbies I e-mailed them telling them how I was disappointed, and did not want a refund but just suggestions on what and how I should order next time from them. Got a reply a few days later that told me I perhaps should try DYI but no suggestions on how their product might be ordered so that I would be happier. Since that was not what I asked about, I took them as not being very helpful and hence a vendor I didn't want to deal with anymore.

Tried another raved about vendor and was again very disappointed, not this time with no flavor, but with an aftertaste I really couldn't stand. But taste is subjective so I moved on.

Still see people rave about these two vendors, and I am glad they are so happy with them, but they are not for me. Life is all about choice, isn't it though? Would be a boring world if we were all the same.

Ordered the first time from the vendor I use now that I have not read much about here, and ordered nic strength too high and a throat hit option that was too harsh for me. Did remember the taste of the juices through that mess and remember I liked it, just not as harsh , so I adjusted my options and ordered again using a lower nic and all VG and I am finally a happy camper with them.

It is all trial and error. I try and remember no one goes out to create a product that is going to make a customer unhappy, after all they are in business and I see some vendors do take a lot of pride in their products. If I don't like the product or customer service I will just go elsewhere, much like I do when I shop for other items other than liquids.

I can imagine that with taste being so subjective E liquid vendors get a lot of e mails from people who have buyer's remorse. I know I have ordered a couple of flavors that sounded really good on the night I was ordering and then when I get them delivered, I'm like, what was I thinking? Evidently not much I guess, I am more blonde sometimes than others it seems... :)

I agree completely. The only real reason I posted this review because of all the BWB fans that have raised the expectations so high for a company. If 200 people tell you to expect gold, your going to expect gold...
 

Godzilla

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hey Guitardedmark, I have a bottle of Waffle with extra flavor I ordered. I ordered 30 ml, and have found other juices I love, so I have some I would be happy to share. Send me a PM and I will send you a few ml. I can even throw in some tasters of BWB peach, 555, and Nutty, all ordered with extra flavor. I find their juices to have a suprisingly high TH, this could be just me, but would be happy to have you try them.
 

guitardedmark

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Honestly, that kind of a response isn't what I would have expected from Don. However, I don't think that he's wrong in stating that because it's a consumable and there wasn't anything "wrong" with the juice per se, that he would not accept a return.

Just imagine the kind of response that would have come from a certain proprietor of a certain juice vendor of a Tasty variety...if you catch my drift.

Like I said, I never expected him to replace the juice, but how would I know unless I asked? I actually did have to contact Tasty Vapor and their response was SIGNIFICANTLY better. Geoff was professional, direct, concerned, and offered multiple resolutions. Granted he didn't shower me with "sorrys" but thats not what I prefer. I prefer them to back their juice up with customer service and a genuine concern for their customers. With Don, I had heard such GREAT AMAZING things and I expected it.
 

guitardedmark

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Mr OP,

BwB has a crystal clear Return Policy statement linked from the Main Menu. The applicable part states:

In order to return the product we must first be contacted by the original purchaser. If you wish to return our e-Liquid just because you dont care for a flavor, it can not be returned. (emphasis mine)

Had he chosen to be impolite, he could easily have referred you to the site & the statement and said nothing more.

Just guessing, but that statement probably exists because of issues like this. I don't believe it lacks clarity.

I agree with you. My complaint is CLEARLY not the fact that he didn't return the juice... I never said his return policy lacked clarity. Clearly, you have misunderstood what I am saying...
 

Vapenstein

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@guitardedmark don't take this the wrong way, but it sounds like you are nearly impossible to please. You had issues with BWB and TV regarding their juice, and previously you stated you didn't like the juice from two other highly liked vendors here on ECF which you didn't name. Maybe chalk it up to having hard to meet standards and move on to the next vendor. Like I pointed out earlier, there is a home for every juice here on the ECF classified forum, so you're never going to lose much except your time.
 

guitardedmark

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Imagine being a vendor and having to deal with all the people who bought something and didn't like it. Not because of a defect in the product, but just from a matter of personal taste. You can't make everyone happy.

People should always order the smallest amount possible of any juice the first time they order it. Even then, there is a home for EVERY juice waiting in the ECF classified forum.

I agree that there would probably be a lot of people that dont like the juice just due to taste differences. However, I disagree that you cant make everyone happy. For instance, VaporBomb has a few really good juices but overall I'm not a huge fan of their stuff. Their customer service however is PHENOMENAL. I spoke to them after getting an order and I wasn't sure if something was wrong with it or not. It tasted pretty chemical and I wasn't sure if it was a taste issue or bad juice. They INSTANTLY offered to exchange the juice. I was not expecting that. I also bought much more juice than I normally would just because they were so nice. Funny enough, after trying enough of their juices, I have found a couple I really like (pina colada, peach, mountain mist, mango). I think they do fruity better than anything else.
 

bluebelle

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I agree completely. The only real reason I posted this review because of all the BWB fans that have raised the expectations so high for a company. If 200 people tell you to expect gold, your going to expect gold...

I know the feeling. I was disappointed by the 2 vendors I mentioned that constantly get praised here as if they were the best thing since sliced bread.

The first vendor I mentioned was especially a disappointment because I was so new to vaping and really was discouraged when I got the liquid and tasted practically nothing but a little generic sweetness and then to get none of that friendly help I kept reading about. Was puzzling though, still is, because you would have thought they would have been ready with some kind of suggestion so I would order more of their product, their loss though in the end.

As far as the other, I do have to wonder about some people's taste buds here if they find that after taste so savory...but to each his own I suppose, just glad its not my own. :)

Sorry you were disappointed, I know the feeling. I have a whole box of liquid disappointments by my home computer desk.
 

guitardedmark

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@guitardedmark don't take this the wrong way, but it sounds like you are nearly impossible to please. You had issues with BWB and TV regarding their juice, and previously you stated you didn't like the juice from two other highly liked vendors here on ECF which you didn't name. Maybe chalk it up to having hard to meet standards and move on to the next vendor. Like I pointed out earlier, there is a home for every juice here on the ECF classified forum, so you're never going to lose much except your time.

Good point. I do have pretty high standards o_O The tasty vapor thing was a completely different deal though. I was sent something other than what I ordered. They have since completely resolved the issue. Maybe I forgot but when did I say I didn't like to other highly liked vendors?
 

guitardedmark

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i dont see anything wrong with Don's answer to you but its not something I'd call great/good customer service either.
the people that became my go to supplier are the ones that really impressed me with some freebies on orders and/or a handwritten note on the invoice...

I agree. It always feels nice to know that you are a value customer.

My favorites juice vendors are:

FreedomsmokeUSA
Tasty Vapor
Ms. T's bakery
Vaperite


Favorite hardware vendors:

Litecigusa
cignot
Vaporflow
 

skydragon

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Honestly, that kind of a response isn't what I would have expected from Don. However, I don't think that he's wrong in stating that because it's a consumable and there wasn't anything "wrong" with the juice per se, that he would not accept a return.

Just imagine the kind of response that would have come from a certain proprietor of a certain juice vendor of a Tasty variety...if you catch my drift.

Exactly whom I had in mind when I said I would not buy from a vendor who treats their customers poorly. No matter how much I like a juice. Call it principles if you will.

You know, I think Don's attempt at the best customer service may be the culprit here. I know he has been swamped but he still makes sure he replies to everyone so I suppose there are times that his responses can not be as extensive.

guitardedmark, you said it would have been better to get no reply. But you see, Don would never just ignore a customer. Unlike many vendors, even if he has very little time he wants to make sure he addresses every question or comment without making a person wait a week.

I'm still really sorry it didn't work the way you thought it should because I think Don is one of a few that honestly cares about his product and his customers. And I keep thinking you are going to be missing out on some very good juice and a vendor that does care. :( It probably sounds silly but it makes me a little sad.
 

guitardedmark

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hey Guitardedmark, I have a bottle of Waffle with extra flavor I ordered. I ordered 30 ml, and have found other juices I love, so I have some I would be happy to share. Send me a PM and I will send you a few ml. I can even throw in some tasters of BWB peach, 555, and Nutty, all ordered with extra flavor. I find their juices to have a suprisingly high TH, this could be just me, but would be happy to have you try them.

I've recently heard people say they tried requesting double flavor from Don and he rejected them. When did you place those orders?
 

StormFinch

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Certainly not trying to be contentious, but I'm going to have to agree with Whiskey on this. I truthfully don't see a lot wrong with Don's reply, especially when he states in the return policy on his website that juices aren't returnable because you don't like them. He'll take them back if they get ruined in transit however. Juice is like food, you wouldn't expect anyone to exchange or take back something you consumed part of and then decided you didn't like. As far as him not spending more time on the email, Don is 99.9% a one man show and extraordinarily busy. He could have just referred you back to his website return policy.
 

FAUXPUFF

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Guitar, let me just say this:

Don is a good man, and a courteous one.
It's not like he would be discourteous to a random person one out of a thousand times.
I'm sure he didn't wake up one morning and say "I'm going to be nasty to someone today".
There are two sides to every story and I'm sure you gave him a reason to be short.
 
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