Bartteres...head's battered with the sheer choice!

[The Ministry]

Hi folks

I've done some searching online and I'm almost at my wits end with 18650 battery choices.

Ok, so I bought a Panasonic NCR18650B Li-ion battery (green with a 3400 mah rating I believe) for my Vamo V5.

I was using it merrily until I stumbled across a thread about how these batteries are not high drain, and can't produce a lot of amps (comfortably) for some e-cig setups.

I then searched around the net and ECF, and decided on two CGR18650CH batteries, which I've used hassle free since.

I pretty much resigned the NCR to the top shelf (not depleted, nor fully charged, around the 3.8 ish volt mark).

I decided to charge and use it again the other day, figuring using it some kind of rotation would be good, keep it "going" as it were. It's lasted me two days, and only down to 3.7 volts....this is quite staggering, and puts the two NCR batteries to shame on lifespan.

I know that it's a higher Mah rated battery, so stands to reason it will last a bit longer, but some posts I've come across have been weary of using them in PV's because of the amp limits, and how this extra headroom can't really be utilized.

To save my sanity, can anyone reassure me that using this NCR18650B battery is safe - that's all I'm after really. I use it at 7 watts, on either a 1.5ohm or 2.1ohm iclear30 head, I rarely, if ever, go about 8watts and figure my amp draw on the battery should be within range (hopefully)

I'm not wanting to blow my head off, if it can be helped. I've found a lot of conflicting info on this battery online in various forms and just want some reassurance.

If it's not safe, I'll just pop it on a famous online auction site and be done with it

Thanks in advance!

Edit - wow, nice typos on the title to this.....need a new Keyboard!

 

[retired1]

Moved to Batteries and Chargers

 

[retired1]

In a regulated mod like your Vamo, the Panny is perfectly fine to use. The high amp, high drain recommendations are more for unregulated mods.

 

[The Ministry]

Sorry, didn't realize there was a dedication section for this!

I thought I'd be ok, but I didn't know for sure. I like my teeth where they are so just wanted a more knowledgeable type to put my mind at rest, which you have.

Many thanks

 

[Baditude]

In a regulated mod like your Vamo, the Panny is perfectly fine to use. The high amp, high drain recommendations are more for unregulated mods.

I'll respectfully disagree.

A lot of people are using that battery in their mechanical mods and even in their regulated mods and I've not heard of any problems. However, theoretically, knowing that battery's amp limits and how a regulated mod uses pulse currents to create higher voltage it is not the ideal battery to use in a regulated mod. A high drain battery is required.

Your regulated mod's processor uses buck boost circuitry and pulse currents (pulse width modulation) from a converter to achieve voltages higher than the battery's 3.7 volts output. Say you set your converter to output higher voltages, say 4.0 volts at 3.5 amp draw. Keep in mind that this 4 volts is ONLY the average current. The pulse current will be much higher, in fact it can be a factor of 2 higher than the average current. Depending upon the voltage set, the converter may need to pull up to 9 amps in pulse fires to the coil to achieve those volts to the coil. The 3400mah B battery only has 6.8 amps.

Look at the amp limits of the 18650 high-drain IMR and hybrid batteries (second link below). They are 10 amps or more, and are what are recommended to be used in regulated mods. The Panasonic/Orbtronic 3100mah & 3400mah A & B batteries only have a 6.8 amp limit. Their hybrid chemistry is very heavily weighted to the ICR end of the spectrum; that is why they have a much higher mah rating compared to IMR batteries and are not high drain.

I've tried to explain this as simply as I can. For a more technical explanation, read this statement by the Provape technical team:

Technical: Why high drain batteries?

Battery Basics for Mods: IMR or ICR?

The battery in question can be safely used in a mechanical mod using factory-built attachments (cartos and clearos). Consider this battery like it is an ICR chemistry battery.

Use high drain batteries in regulated mods, mechanical mods using a Kick, and any mod using an RBA.

 

[The Ministry]

You'd think, given I read Law all day, I'd get this, but it's still lost on me. I will do some more research and wrap my weary head around this at some point...

You know when you read something and your brain just says "no" - that's me just now.

I suppose it can be resigned to backup for now, which is what it kind of was anyway - I believe my other CGR18650CH's have a 10amp limit, but I'm starting to doubt that now!

 

[Baditude]

You'd think, given I read Law all day, I'd get this, but it's still lost on me. I will do some more research and wrap my weary head around this at some point...

You know when you read something and your brain just says "no" - that's me just now.

I suppose it can be resigned to backup for now, which is what it kind of was anyway - I believe my other CGR18650CH's have a 10amp limit, but I'm starting to doubt that now!

The Panasonic CGR18650CH's do indeed have a 10 amp limit. (see second link above)

There basically are three types of Lithium batteries currently:

• ICR - These are the protected Li-Ion batteries. They typically have a larger mAh rating for long battery time, but because of their higher resistance they are not high drain. ICR batteries generally have a 3 - 4 amp limit.
  
• IMR - These are unprotected, safe-chemistry, high-drain batteries with higher amp limits for higher power devices, but don't have the extended battery time of an ICR battery. Can have amp limits of 10 - 26.
• hybrid - These have a mixed chemistry of both the ICR and IMR batteries. They generally have the better properties of both ICR and IMR - long battery time, safe chemistry, and except for the two Panny's that are in question, are high drain. Can have amp limits 10 - 35.
  
  The Panasonic NCR18650A 3100mAh and NCR18650B 3400mAh are hybrids, but much more heavily weighted to the ICR end of the chemistry spectrum, and should be considered more like an ICR than an IMR due to their lower amp limit and not being high drain. Amp limit is 6.8. These were actually designed for long battery time in flashlights.

 

[tnt56]

And those Panasonic you refer to are also perfect for the Evic. Great performance and very very long run time. Also allow pass through mode.
I've seen a lot of people use em in other mods. But I'll stay with the Evic for mine. Don't trust em enough for other high drain mods.

 

[The Ministry]

awesome advice - much appreciated. I've been away for a couple of days on a business trip so busy catching up

(£5 an hour for wifi in the hotel - erm, no!)

Really appreciate the advice

 

[tnt56]

The Panasonic NCR18650B 3400mAh are hybrids, but much more heavily weighted to the ICR end of the chemistry spectrum, and should be considered more like an ICR than an IMR due to their lower amp limit and not being high drain. Amp limit is 6.8. These were actually designed for long battery time in flashlights.
[/LIST]

These are the one's I refer to in use for the Evic.

 

[GeorgeIIII]

I realize this thread's a few weeks old. But for what it's worth:

I purchased an Innokin VTR mod several months back. Was the first mod I had that needed separate batteries (as opposed to my MVP, which has built in batt). Anyway, I purchased two of the Panasonic 18650b's just like the ones you have, and used them in rotation with the VTr for about two months. I'm a heavy vaper, so take that into consideration when I tell you that I had to swap them out about once or twice a day. I vape anywhere from the 7.5-9.0 wattages, and sometimes even higher if I'm running a dual-coil carto. I also used a Pro-tank II as my primary tank for the longest time.

I just got my hands on a Vamo V5 about a week ago. One thing I have noticed with this mod is that it hits a lot harder than the VTR did. Hell, it about blows my head off if I don't get my PG/VG mix just right. I find that I have to turn my wattage all the way down for a few hours, until the coils get worn in. On a side note here, I've also noticed that the V5 will blow through coils in a day or two, versus two or three for my VTR.

Back to the topic though...

These batteries have performed well for me. I've not had any issue with them. They do get really hot in the V5, so I'm more concerned with longevity than anything at this point. I finally ordered an Intelli-charger, so that should solve part of the problem. Either way, these batteries seem to perform well, whether you can "use the full range of it" or not. With the V5 I can get into a few heavy vaping sessions and not really worry about the safety of it as much as the longevity.

I liked these batteries so much that I've ordered two more. I may try IMR's somewhere down the road. But since the V5 has a number of built-in protections, I don't see that it's really necessary.

Having said that, there is one drawback to these batteries. Because of the lack of protection, you couldn't use them in a mechanical mod. You'd have to get some kind of an IMR with built-in protection. Personally, I have no experience with mech's, but this iswhat I've heard all around the 'Net. So, bear that in mind if you ever decide to go that route.

Hope this helps!