Battery concerns and first mech mod Precise 14500

[mikeyoneshot]

First time thread starter on ECF for me. Mods if this isn't the correct place to seek battery advice my apologies and please move, didn't see anything for dedicated battery discussion.

A month or so ago I bought a SID from MVS and packaged it up with Panasonic NCR18650B batteries and an eFest LUC Charger. I knew the importance of a good charger so sprung for one with the built in protection and digital readout. After placing the order I read some concerns about the NCR18650B batteries even in a protected device like the SID and decided to not use them. Placed an order on fasttech for the NCR18650PD batteries after reading some good reviews. I've only been using these, charging them when I'm awake and near them, I have a brand new fire extinguisher in the next room and keeping them in the plastic box they came in when not in use.

However, y'all scared the s**t out of me tonight as I lurked the battery failure threads after deciding on my first mech mod the Precise Simplicity 14500. I already ordered 2 LiPo protection bags off amazon for storage and charging to use for any battery of any chemistry or circuitry. I'm not sure where I landed on keeping them in the plastic boxes they come in so any input there would be awesome. I charge my batteries in my house but now I'm concerned about the surface I'm charging them on. Is there anything that's a ready-made board or safety device for charging the batteries on while in the bags? Keep in mind once these LiPo bags come in I will use them for charging and storage on whatever board or surface I can get, once they're in the bags I would keep them in either the plastic box or battery-safe box, suggestions there highly appreciated. If anyone can clear that all up for me that would be great. Also, should I have any concerns about batteries from fasttech?

After deciding on the Precise Simplicity 14500 I ordered the AW P14500 batteries off lighthound, these were listed first on the Precise site and the protection circuit / AW brand made me feel comfortable but now I'm wondering about the AW IMR 14500 that Precise also suggests wondering which is the overall safer choice. I know the battle continues on which is safer IMR or Protected but my question is one would YOU put in the Simplicity 14500 based my usage detailed below?

I do not do sub-ohm nor would I, and I do not build my own coils or mess with RBAs or RDAs and if I did start that I wouldn't coil anything under 1.5ohm, in fact I would probably stay closer to 2.0 ohm. I bought some pre-built Octopus RDAs and wasn't impressed so didn't continue down that path of building my own but who knows I may in the future.

I typically use LR/SR 510 attys, 2.0ish ohm cartos and the occasional clearo again around 2.2ohm. Also, battery life does not concern me as I vape 1-2 mil/day, I've gone a work day on a 10440 350mah battery, 2 days on an eGo Twist and a week on the NCR18650PD. I also keep my voltage low, 3.2-3.8 or 6-8.5W Please keep this in mind with any responses.

Whats the best way to transport the Simpicity 14500 to and from work? I've read no batteries in the device, batteries in the device but no attachment head, keeping it all together and using the locking mechanism....not using the locking mechanism...the choices are overwhelming.

Thanks to anyone who can provide me with some help, suggestions or input and thanks to all for making this site a great resource for vapers!

 

[Thrasher]

whew! lol
ok wil start somewhere so here goes.
ok first with general charging and safety, adhering to general safety guidlines is always a good idea, but dont be fearful of these batteries, handle them with care and treat them no rougher then you would the batteries in your phone or laptop.

While chargers go bad it isnt very frequent so being careful is a great idea, being scared to charge the battery isnt really necessary. personally i charge mine in the kitchen on the stovetop when im home and awake.

ok now the 18650b debacle - in regulated mods we need to be careful and use high drain batteries, high drain are usually defined as having a 10 amp or more draw, the reason is (and this is as basic as i can make it) to set the mod at 4 volts pulling 3 amps the mod has to make 7 amps from 3.7 volts and this number goes up as the voltage/charge drops even lower. (not accurate just example).

the problem with the B is it is a low amperage battery, as soon as the mod goes above 6.8 amps current draw (very likely in a regulated mod) the battery is being pushed past its limit. creating a very unsafe condition.


now you do not use low resistance stuff so you are pretty much in the clear zone, but on a mech it is very important to know where the current draw is for what you do. the best way is using an ohms law calculator like this-
Ohm's Law Calculator

the best way to transport the mod is just to lock it, i lock my mech and drop it in the pocket, the way Super-t builds things i wouldnt be worried about the button lock failing(if it does send it back)

now the batteries they recommend- the aw 14500 has a 4 amp limit, using the calculator we can find a 2 ohm load running at a 4.2v output (the batteries maximum charge) will be a 2.1 amp load, well below what the battery can handle so you are very safe.
using the calculator we can find that 1.1 ohm would be as low as you can go with a 4.2 volt charge and still be safe.

If you do decide to get into rebuildables stay in the 1.3 to 1.4 ohm range for this mod. but the more draw the shorter the battery life.

I really like the bigger mechanicals with a big 18650 battery so they last a good long time and the bigger batteries have more power and more room to flex so to speak when using lower resistance coils (1.1 or lower) on a rebuildable.

 

[SissySpike]

HE HE took me 27 turns of the scroll wheel to read the OP and one post;-)

 

[90quattrocoupe]

Thrasher, if I remember right you are using Panasonic PDs in some of your devices, right?

Greg W.

 

[genghishahn]

I think Thrasher covered all the points pretty well

I use a granite machining slab as my charging surface. I don't ever leave charging batteries unattended. I'm sure that between the lipo bag and a non-combustable charging surface you'll be good. Like Thrasher said: don't fear the batteries, just be respectful and conscientious.

I've personally never used anything besides IMRs in my mods. I tend to like my coils around 1 ohm though, so protected batteries don't really meet my needs. At 2 ohms, the protected batteries will be just fine. Maybe look into what happens to each type of battery when they experience a catastrophic failure and see what you're more comfortable with should you ever find yourself in that situation.

As far as transporting the Simplicity, I just use the locking ring on mine. I've yet to have it come loose and fire an atty in my pocket. If you're freaked out by the possibilty of the ring coming loose, I'd pull the battery and store in it a non-conductive case until you want to use it. I wouldn't take the atty off though because some, like a gennie, will dump juice in your pocket if not kept upright.

I hope you enjoy your Simplicity! Happy Vaping

 

[Baditude]

I've done a fair bit of research and self-education on mod batteries recently, and have collected this information in this blog article:

Battery Basics for Mods: IMR or Protected?

Long story short, ECF battery guru's like rolygate recommend AW IMR batteries over any other class of battery, including protected Li Ions. [reference: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-library/129569-rechargeable-batteries.html]

You lose battery capacity with an IMR, but conventional wisdom is safe chemistry IMR's are now considered safer than protected Li Ions. And when choosing any battery for a mod, safety should be the number one priority, not mAhs.

I've used the red AW IMR's in all of my mods, regulated and mechanical, for over a year. I've done this since I had the fire button stick on my Altsmoke BB while in the pocket of a pair of shorts in my work locker. This caused a rapid discharge of the protected 14500 Trustfire battery you see below. The battery over-heated, the protection circuit failed, and the battery hard-shorted, going into thermal runaway, scorching my pants from the venting hot gases.



I present this story not to be fear mongering, but to alert other vapors that these batteries need to be respected and handled appropriately at all times. The one time you mess up may be the time you experience an unfortunate accident. In hindsight, I should have removed the cartotank (incomplete circuit) or removed the battery from the mod. Practice safe battery measures and you should be as safe as you are using your cell phone or laptop, as they use the same chemistry batteries.

I use a Nitecore Intellicharger i4. It's home is on the countertop in the kitchen, and I charge my batteries with the charger on the stove top. Statistically, most battery incidences happen during charging. I've not had another battery incident since, but I now practice safety measures, as my previous incident was a wake up call.

 

[Thrasher]

Thrasher, if I remember right you are using Panasonic PDs in some of your devices, right?

Greg W.

correct. I really enjoy the amount of time they run.and so far I have run them in everything from the provari to the mechanicals.
while the argument of chemistry and safety arise, if someone wants to feel safe as possible I would say stay with AW or the panny cgr but in the end there is safer only, nothing is completely safe.

This caused a rapid discharge of the protected 14500

also a good reason to not lay all your trust on a protection circuit

HE HE took me 27 turns of the scroll wheel to read the OP and one post

LOL!

no biggie though as they at least use paragraphs

 

[mackman]

Amen to that

I've done a fair bit of research and self-education on mod batteries recently, and have collected this information in this blog article:

Battery Basics for Mods: IMR or Protected?

Long story short, ECF battery guru's like rolygate recommend AW IMR batteries over any other class of battery, including protected Li Ions. [reference: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-library/129569-rechargeable-batteries.html] You lose battery capacity with an IMR, but conventional wisdom is safe chemistry IMR's are now considered safer than protected Li Ions. And when choosing any battery for a mod, safety should be the number one priority, not mAhs.

I've used the red AW IMR's in all of my mods, regulated and mechanical, for over a year. I've done this since I had the fire button stick on my Altsmoke BB while in the pocket of a pair of shorts in my work locker. This caused a rapid discharge of the protected 14500 Trustfire battery you see below. The battery over-heated, the protection circuit failed, and the battery hard-shorted, going into thermal runaway, scorching my pants from the venting hot gases.

View attachment 252446

I present this story not to be fear mongering, but to alert other vapors that these batteries need to be respected and handled appropriately at all times. The one time you mess up may be the time you experience an unfortunate accident. In hindsight, I should have removed the cartotank (incomplete circuit) or removed the battery from the mod. Practice safe battery measures and you should be as safe as you are using your cell phone or laptop, as they use the same chemistry batteries.

I use a Nitecore Intellicharger i4. It's home is on the countertop in the kitchen, and I charge my batteries with the charger on the stove top. Statistically, most battery incidences happen during charging. I've not had another battery incident since, but I now practice safety measures, as my previous incident was a wake up call.

 

[mikeyoneshot]

Thanks for all the replies guys really appreciate it. Good info.

Sounds like the preference is to IMR right now.

Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk 2

 

[Coastal Cowboy]

Randy at RTD says that those 18650B's are actually protected batteries.

He has them listed as such at the link below, and confirmed in an email to me that they are protected.

Genuine AW Batteries at RTD Vapor

This counter to what I have read elsewhere on this forum. I own a pair, but hesitate to use them in my regulated Vamo V3. I use Efest and AW IMR's in 18350 mode and Panasonic CGR's in 18650 mode.

 

[90quattrocoupe]

So if my understanding is correct, both the Panasonic CGR and PDs, are both Hybrid High drain batteries, but the CGR is protected and the PD is unprotected. Correct?

Greg W.

 

[mikeyoneshot]

So if my understanding is correct, both the Panasonic CGR and PDs, are both Hybrid High drain batteries, but the CGR is protected and the PD is unprotected. Correct?

Greg W.

No the PD is protected, the CGR is a different chemistry battery.

What I got out of this is that both the protected and non protected AW 14500's will work for me with my vaping style, the IMRs will be better when the ohms drop and they both have safety pros and cons but bottom line if the protected circuit fails its now its an unprotected battery with less-safe chemistry. Going to order the IMR's and I'll make the decision once I put it in the device.

Interestingly though, provape had more to say about the protected 14500s AW 14500 batteries
It's saying these specific batteries have two layers of protection in the form of a anti-explosion gas vent and protected circuitry. Can anyone chime in on that?

Thanks for all the feedback so far, really appreciate. Apologize for my long initial post but I had so many questions and didn't want to start 10 threads to get them all answered. LiPo battery bags on the way, IMR and Protected batteries on the way and I got a pyrex cooking tray to charge everything in so in the event any of my batteries go I should be fine.

 

[90quattrocoupe]

Actually, I should have read the RTD vapors site, before asking.

Both the NCR PDs, and the CGR CHs are both hybrid batteries, and both can come protected or unprotected. The CGR CH is also IMR. This is for button top batteries, which I use. The NCR PDs are 2900mAh and the CGR CHs are 2200mAh, which seems to be the limit for IMRs.

Panasonic Hybrid/IMR CGR18650CH Button Top 2250mAh 3.7v
Batteries : Panasonic Hybrid/ IMR CGR18650CH Button Top

Panosonic Hybrid/IMR CGR18650CH 2250mAh Protected Button Top
Panasonic Hybrid/IMR CGR18650CH Button Top 2250mAh 3.7v

Panasonic high drain NCR18650PD 2900mAh button top
Batteries : Panasonic High Drain NCR18650PD Hybrid 2900mAh Button Top

Panasonic high drain NCR18650PD hybrid 2900mAh Protected button top
Batteries : Panasonic High Drain NCR18650PD Hybrid 2900mAh Protected Button Top

Greg W.