Battery for USB pass through?

[breno]

I though you did not need a battery with a passthrough?
Thats the whole point of them isn't it???
510 Spare Battery for Passthrough - 510 - Manual - Eastmall International Co.,Ltd

 

[ApOsTle51]

it's a two fold safety feature originaly devised by janty with the Kissbox.

Firstly : Your standard USB port ( more so on older PC's ) will only supply 500mA of power to a device before it needs to negotiate with the host and request a higher output. an ecig passthrough currently cannot interface with your PC to request that power increase.

Your standard ecig can draw up to 1500mA of power. This is why if you want to run a passthrough without a battery you will see most people use a mains powered USB hub which can deliver a higher ( 1500mA ) amperage without negotiation.

To overcome this , a battery is placed in-line so your not drawing power from the USB port but rather from the battery. The passthrough just charges the battery as it has a charge protection circuit within it from the USB.

All this is to protect your PC's USB ports from a power overload.

Secondly : Drawing power from the in-line battery ( its a 10440 battery btw ) keeps the voltage at 3.7 volt which is what atomizers are designed to run at rather than 5 volts that a USB port would supply unregulated.

Not all passthroughs on the market implicate the in-line battery, and there are posts on this very forum about Damage caused to motherboards and such because of this. Granted , there are many that use them with no issues but it is a risk , hence the reason for a mains powered hub.


ApO.

 

[breno]

it's a two fold safety feature originaly devised by janty with the Kissbox.

Firstly : Your standard USB port ( more so on older PC's ) will only supply 500mA of power to a device before it needs to negotiate with the host and request a higher output. an ecig passthrough currently cannot interface with your PC to request that power increase.

Your standard ecig can draw up to 1500mA of power. This is why if you want to run a passthrough without a battery you will see most people use a mains powered USB hub which can deliver a higher ( 1500mA ) amperage without negotiation.

To overcome this , a battery is placed in-line so your not drawing power from the USB port but rather from the battery. The passthrough just charges the battery as it has a charge protection circuit within it from the USB.

All this is to protect your PC's USB ports from a power overload.

Secondly : Drawing power from the in-line battery ( its a 10440 battery btw ) keeps the voltage at 3.7 volt which is what atomizers are designed to run at rather than 5 volts that a USB port would supply unregulated.

Not all passthroughs on the market implicate the in-line battery, and there are posts on this very forum about Damage caused to motherboards and such because of this. Granted , there are many that use them with no issues but it is a risk , hence the reason for a mains powered hub.


ApO.

Thanks for that. It all seems a bit of a 'botched job' to me, a fudge, the whole point of using USB power is IMO to avoid batteries altogeather so to find I need a battery too is a major pain in the .....
How long would such a battery last? Any idea?

You seem to indicate that the passthrough will not work without a battery, is that the case, seems that way.

Seems to me there must be a switch so the charger is disconnected when you inhale otherwise you would get 5V?

I always though it was weird to have a USB power anyway the logical thing is a main adaptor, crazy idea, do I have to switch my computer on to smoke?

 

[ApOsTle51]

Thanks for that. It all seems a bit of a 'botched job' to me, a fudge, the whole point of using USB power is IMO to avoid batteries altogeather so to find I need a battery too is a major pain in the .....
How long would such a battery last? Any idea?

You seem to indicate that the passthrough will not work without a battery, is that the case, seems that way.

Seems to me there must be a switch so the charger is disconnected when you inhale otherwise you would get 5V?

I always though it was weird to have a USB power anyway the logical thing is a main adaptor, crazy idea, do I have to switch my computer on to smoke?

I have no idea how long the battery life time would be on a passthrough Im afraid , I dont use one

A passthrough that incorporates a battery will not work without the battery installed.

there is no switch that disconnects the battery charger when you inhale, your just using the battery to power the ecig , the USB in turn charges the battery.
Passthroughs that don't use a battery run at 5V unless they carry a resistor circuit to reduce the voltage to 3.7v.

edit : oh , I see where you got that idea from :

Your standard ecig can draw up to 1500mA of power. This is why if you want to run a passthrough without a battery you will see most people use a mains powered USB hub which can deliver a higher ( 1500mA ) amperage without negotiation

The bolded text should really have read " run a passthrough that doesnt incorporate a battery"

If you use a mains USB hub then no yo dont need to plug it into your PC.
You can use USB wall chargers, but must make sure it has a high enough mA output ( 1000mA min. )

 

[breno]

I am just not sure how you can recieve power from the battery at 3.7V when it is being charged at 5V?
I mean if the top of the battery is 5V then you would receive 5V from the battery when you drew power from it.
The only way I can see you getting less than 5V is if you have a suitable resistor before the battery to drop the voltage and take the supply from there.

 

[ApOsTle51]

no , the charging circuit in the passthrough reduces 5volts from the USB to 4.2volts to charge the battery. putting charge at any level without any electronic protection to an unproteced battery will cause the battery to catastrophically fail.

The maximun voltage from a passthrough with a battery to the atomizer is 4.2 volt . all ecig batterys rated at 3.7volt are actually around 4.2 volt when fresh off charge then quickly drop off from there. If using unproteced battery as the 10440 is , if the charge within it goes below 2.7 volt then there is a possibility that the battery will not accept further charge.

As the protection is not in the battery to avoid this happening the protection circuit is normally fitted to the device to which it powers. I do not know if a passthrough with a battery has this low voltage cut-off protection but i would find it unlikely as the battery would be constantly accepting a charge as long as the PT is connected to the USB with the overcharge protection circuit in the PT shutting off the charge cycle to the battery when it reached 4.2volt and switching the charging cycle back on at a pre-determined voltage ( 4.1 volt for e.g. ) so in theory the battery should never drop to the minimum voltage.

Lithium batteries are different chemistry to say Ni-Mh . Ni-Mh will hold the same voltage ( 1.5v) virtually until the charge has been expelled. Lithium Ion cells drop voltage as the charge is expelled.

 

[SwanVesta]

I have been informed by TECC (despite the fact I use my passthru daily) that the rechargeable battery should not need replacing "for about 6 months to a year"

HTH

 

[breno]

I have been informed by TECC (despite the fact I use my passthru daily) that the rechargeable battery should not need replacing "for about 6 months to a year"

HTH

How long has your battery lasted?

 

[SwanVesta]

Interesting you should ask......


8 weeks ago I upgraded to a new Titan 510 and purchased a new usb passthrough with my new kit and caboodle asked TECC if I should replace the battery - hence reply I quoted earlier in thread. Anyway, I decided to order another USB passthrough as I use it so much and now I am today using my new USB PT I know for sure it has weakened considerably! Its like a whole new experience again!

So now I wonder is it the passthrough itself thats knackered or does the rechargable battery actually need replacing?

I am going to do a thread asking when I figure out where I should post such a question

Thanks

 

[breno]

Well as far as I am concerned I don't see how your pass through itself can be knackered, I mean basically it is a couple of wires and a bit of circuitary to control the charging.
Such circuitary in my opinion does not 'wear out', it is mainly solid state stuff and a few connections, basicaly such stuff either works 100% or it doesn't, a bit like a TV or a computer perhaps, they don't 'fade' over time.
Batteries on the other hand are well known for fading we know that from flash light batteries, OK they are not usually rechargeable but car batteries are and they also fade over time, (the plates corrode or whatever).
So to me it is certain that your battery is becoming less efficient as I would definately expect in fact I would be astonished it it did not!

Manufacturers and suppliers opinions of their products seem to be rather optimistic!!
(note I avoid calling them down right liars here ), I mean you get similar optimistic claims on how much eliquid you will use etc...
So I would say you should just have ordered another battery as I expect your passthrough itself if perfectly fine, apart from the battery.
I mean what you have done effiective is bought a new car because your car battery was fading!! (well that's exaggerating it a bit!)

 

[SwanVesta]

Hi Breno

Just keep you updated from my other thread...............a much wiser member than I advised I swapped the batteries to test the theory!

And the results indicate it is the USB passthru itself that is knackered and NOT the rechargable battery

When putting the new battery in the old USB PT I get much weaker performance and weirdly intermittent working - virtually every other vape does not work. I tried leaving a longer gap between vapes and I tried engaging the button without vaping to try and override this "every other vape" scenario but it didnt make any difference.

Therefore my old USB PT (only 8 weeks old) is knackered as not only is it weak when it does work but it only works every other vape.

This indicates the battery did not need replacing as it is powering my new USB PT fine

Thank you

Swan

 

[breno]

Hmm it's rather worrying that the passthourgh itself is malfunctioning I would have though such a component should last a lifetime.
Maybe it is because a relatively large current goes through it?
I would not expect such a device to fail no more than I would expect a small power supply for say speakers or a modem to fail.
Shows how much I know
I certainly would not be pleased if I had to replace mine, infact if it failed within a year I would be sending it back, quoting my rights under the Sale of Goods act, in particular that the item must be 'fit for purpose', and demanding a refund.

 

[breno]

I have been informed by TECC (despite the fact I use my passthru daily) that the rechargeable battery should not need replacing "for about 6 months to a year"

HTH

Ha ha interesting you got it from TECC cos I got my passthrough from there and it arrived faulty ie minus the button to operate it!!
I am sending that back to them tommorrow.

 

[breno]

Anywya more confusion on passthroughs.
I notice that the batteryless ones cost more than the ones without a battery which I think is rather odd?
I mean surely the batteryless one is just the USB plug and an the wires?
Or does it have more circuitary in it?

 

[breno]

I have no idea how long the battery life time would be on a passthrough Im afraid , I dont use one

A passthrough that incorporates a battery will not work without the battery installed.

there is no switch that disconnects the battery charger when you inhale, your just using the battery to power the ecig , the USB in turn charges the battery.
Passthroughs that don't use a battery run at 5V unless they carry a resistor circuit to reduce the voltage to 3.7v.

edit : oh , I see where you got that idea from :

The bolded text should really have read " run a passthrough that doesnt incorporate a battery"

If you use a mains USB hub then no yo dont need to plug it into your PC.
You can use USB wall chargers, but must make sure it has a high enough mA output ( 1000mA min. )

Are you saying you don't use a passthrough or that your passthrough has no battery (and you run it from a mains adaptor?).

Also would this be suitable as a USB power source?
http://www.cablesandmore.co.uk/usb2...n.php?osCsid=31bcd5f301c11dd8cb471883c1e45a5e

It does not mention anything about power output, nor do others I have seen. Most of the USB chargers I have send seem to mention a 1/2 amp (500mA) output.

 

[ApOsTle51]

I dont use a passthrough , seen too many horror stories of people blowing motherboards with them so I just rule it out..
Powering them from a hub is fine, like the one you linked too , you dont even need to plug it into the PC , just the mains.

I wouldnt like to say whether or not that hub is ok to use , but i imagine it would be ok.

Output is more relevant if your using something like the kensington USB power pack where it's not plugged into the mains or your using a usb mains charger like the IPOD ones which only output 450mA or so.

 

[breno]

Hmmm I have just had a though, there are quite a few spare power connectors inside my PC, for connecting disk drives or whatever, they have a red 5v power line.
There is a load of stuff about the connectors here:-
All about the various PC power supply cables and connectors
So I guess you could use the red 5v power line rather than a USB.

I expect the USB 5v is just directly connected to the 5v line anyway!!

That can't be anymore dangerous than connecting to a USB slot.

I am wondering how PC's get fried, I guess if you get anything in the atomiser to short circuit it than that would fry your PC!!

Safer to use something not connected to the PC at all, if you short circuit the end which connects to the atomiser then that is probably your PC going up in smoke.
If you are connecting a passthrough to your PC it would seem to be a good idea to have
a suitable fuse in the circuit.