Battery Safety and Amperage

[sonicbomb]

ALLWAYS stick to the CDR, there is quite literally no reason to exceed it.
If you need more power than one battery can provide, use a second or a third one.

Tube mechs come from a time when they were the only and certainly the cheapest way to get a lot of power into an atomizer. Those days are long gone. Cheap relatively safe regulated mods are two a penny capable of multiple hundreds of watts.
People still like to use single battery mechs for reasons. But if hot high power vaping is what you are after, then single battery tube mechs are not the way to do it. At very low resistances they are increasingly inefficient and as stated there is only so much power you can safely pull from one battery. Trying to have the hottest most kamikaze build on the block is either down to ignorance or more likely misguided machismo.
Use the right tool for the job, and don't try to be a vaping Rambo.

 

[ScottP]

Here is the truth. Yes batteries have a Continuous Drain and a Pulse Rating that is higher. If you build between the two, the risk of blowing your batteries using short bursts is still fairly low. So yes it is possible to do that at least for some time. As batteries age the risk will increase. However, consider the following points when building over CDR and closer to max safe pulse.

1. What happens if your ohm reading is slightly off and the variance puts you over the pulse rating?
2. What happens if you take too long of a draw OR the button happens to get stuck?
3. What happens if that particular battery was slightly under spec to begin with?
4. Are you going to care about the % chance that something bad will happen AFTER it happens to you?

For these reasons, if you want to be as safe as possible, your target current draw should be BELOW the CDR rating. Really probably at least 10-15% lower to cover potential variances as mentioned above.

 

[CliffCloff]

ALLWAYS stick to the CDR, there is quite literally no reason to exceed it.
If you need more power than one battery can provide, use a second or a third one.

Tube mechs come from a time when they were the only and certainly the cheapest way to get a lot of power into an atomizer. Those days are long gone. Cheap relatively safe regulated mods are two a penny capable of multiple hundreds of watts.
People still like to use single battery mechs for reasons. But if hot high power vaping is what you are after, then single battery tube mechs are not the way to do it. At very low resistances they are increasingly inefficient and as stated there is only so much power you can safely pull from one battery. Trying to have the hottest most kamikaze build on the block is either down to ignorance or more likely misguided machismo.
Use the right tool for the job, and don't try to be a vaping Rambo.

Yeah I get that using regulated mods are kind of the way to because you can basically "force" it into putting out more. What I pretty much mean by that is turning up the wattage. But mechanical mods have basically grabbed my attention a lot more than the regulated ones and I really want to get one and still be able to get that nice warm dense vapor with the big clouds. But as for a set up for that I'm a little lost cause I'm new to the mechanical scene but I at least understand ohm's law and how batteries go. I want to know what I need to do in order to get what I was talking about. I was thinking maybe a parallel box because the amps will stack and I can build somewhat low. Probably no lower than 0.10 ohms. And I mean .... I may be 100% wrong but then at least someone can tell me and tell me how i can get what I'm looking for.

 

[invisiblehand13]

Why do these threads always end up as a cesspool of "there is so much misinformation...blah, blah, blah"? I mean just directing someone to the proper source would be more constructive than telling them that people they know or people they watch on youtube (or wherever/whatever else) are just wrong? The simple fact is that as long as you buy genuine and good cells (sony vtc5, samsung 25r, lg hg2 just to name a few) from a reputable distributor or site (illumn.com for instance) and use basic ohms law you literally cannot be any safer than that as far as applying "proper battery safety". With that being said, no battery is "safe" (not counting low power double and tripple a batteries here as we all know they do next to nothing when shorted lol) whether it is in your phone (which you hold to your head), your laptop (which is commonly in your lap), your tablet (which is usually right next to your head on a nightstand) or even your power tools. Manufacturing defects can sometimes be missed or slip by in a factory and make it to a consumer and work for some time before it just becomes defective. These are just the facts of high capacity (whether amp or amp hour) batteries at the present time. Can you push a battery to twice its amp limit? Yeah, you can and probably nothing catastrophic will happen unless we are talking about a true dead short but there are so many variables that many people overlook in that equation (the resistance of the mod itself, the resistance of the atomizer the build is in, the internal resistance of the batteries, etc) that to just outright call people "stupid" (whether it be directly or even just implying it in the tone of the response) and comparing them to someone jumping off of a cliff is just not constructive nor helpful in actually educating those people who are trying to be on the "bleeding edge" of vaping. I can, however, guarantee that using cells in this manner (using them at twice their rated CDR) will, in fact, wear them out more than twice as fast as they are a "consumable" product. If you value your batteries, the mods you put them in, the face you inhale vapor with and the hand you use to vape...just ponder how willing you are to be on that "bleeding edge"...anywho...just my two cents on the topic...vape on peeps!

 

[invisiblehand13]

Yeah I get that using regulated mods are kind of the way to because you can basically "force" it into putting out more. What I pretty much mean by that is turning up the wattage. But mechanical mods have basically grabbed my attention a lot more than the regulated ones and I really want to get one and still be able to get that nice warm dense vapor with the big clouds. But as for a set up for that I'm a little lost cause I'm new to the mechanical scene but I at least understand ohm's law and how batteries go. I want to know what I need to do in order to get what I was talking about. I was thinking maybe a parallel box because the amps will stack and I can build somewhat low. Probably no lower than 0.10 ohms. And I mean .... I may be 100% wrong but then at least someone can tell me and tell me how i can get what I'm looking for.

When I first started on mechanical mods I would build as low as 0.08 on a single battery mech (using genuine 20+ CDR batteries) but to be clear I also made sure I paid very close attention to heat differences coming from my tube mods and I never chain vaped...just long warm thick inhales of sweet, sweet vapor...but as time progressed and more quality vw devices became available I just phased out of mechanicals and went to vw devices as my go to. When I started vaping I needed that throat hit to give me what I was looking for and I was a manager at a vape shop so I was always one step away from a charger (abusing batteries like this will make them last soooooo much shorter its redick) and it helped me sell plenty of mods in my store at the time so for me it was a convenient win-win (I never would build a customer a build that low to be clear here). Now that I work in the medical field and need a mod that can last 12 hours for my workday and not be obnoxious so I can vape in a bathroom or while charting without being "that" guy vw mods just work better for me now but I still use my mechanicals around the house but that throat hit isn't for me anymore and I never build below 0.15 on single battery mech but now I use dual parallel mods mostly anyways ...I guess what I am trying to say is just remember that there is always a trade-off with vaping (and electricity in batteries) if you want to try dual parallel mods (which are my favorite btw, just not enough of the good phillipino ones anymore like their used to be) at 0.10 ohms on a set of at least 20 amp CDR batteries (pretty much any recommended mooch battery) then you will be more than fine as far as "proper battery safety" but also remember if you do end up pushing lower than that to just be smart about it and do what makes you happy and content...nobody on the internet should influence you otherwise...just imho...Cheers mate!

 

[KenD]

Here is the truth. Yes batteries have a Continuous Drain and a Pulse Rating that is higher. If you build between the two, the risk of blowing your batteries using short bursts is still fairly low. So yes it is possible to do that at least for some time. As batteries age the risk will increase. However, consider the following points when building over CDR and closer to max safe pulse.

1. What happens if your ohm reading is slightly off and the variance puts you over the pulse rating?
2. What happens if you take too long of a draw OR the button happens to get stuck?
3. What happens if that particular battery was slightly under spec to begin with?
4. Are you going to care about the % chance that something bad will happen AFTER it happens to you?

For these reasons, if you want to be as safe as possible, your target current draw should be BELOW the CDR rating. Really probably at least 10-15% lower to cover potential variances as mentioned above.

"Pulse ratings" are pretty much false/fake advertising. No real battery manufacturers use them, and rewrappers have almost certainly not tested their cells for any reliable "pulse discharge".

Sent from my Thor E using Tapatalk

 

[CliffCloff]

When I first started on mechanical mods I would build as low as 0.08 on a single battery mech (using genuine 20+ CDR batteries) but to be clear I also made sure I paid very close attention to heat differences coming from my tube mods and I never chain vaped...just long warm thick inhales of sweet, sweet vapor...but as time progressed and more quality vw devices became available I just phased out of mechanicals and went to vw devices as my go to. When I started vaping I needed that throat hit to give me what I was looking for and I was a manager at a vape shop so I was always one step away from a charger (abusing batteries like this will make them last soooooo much shorter its redick) and it helped me sell plenty of mods in my store at the time so for me it was a convenient win-win (I never would build a customer a build that low to be clear here). Now that I work in the medical field and need a mod that can last 12 hours for my workday and not be obnoxious so I can vape in a bathroom or while charting without being "that" guy vw mods just work better for me now but I still use my mechanicals around the house but that throat hit isn't for me anymore and I never build below 0.15 on single battery mech but now I use dual parallel mods mostly anyways ...I guess what I am trying to say is just remember that there is always a trade-off with vaping (and electricity in batteries) if you want to try dual parallel mods (which are my favorite btw, just not enough of the good phillipino ones anymore like their used to be) at 0.10 ohms on a set of at least 20 amp CDR batteries (pretty much any recommended mooch battery) then you will be more than fine as far as "proper battery safety" but also remember if you do end up pushing lower than that to just be smart about it and do what makes you happy and content...nobody on the internet should influence you otherwise...just imho...Cheers mate!

best ....ing reply yet!!! like 1 it was a great read tbh, 2 it was straight forward, 3 you were really cool about it. But thank you and also I'd like to know what dual parallel boxes you'd recommend. Color wise I mainly stick to black and red, also don't want anything more than about $150. Cause lately its been impossible to find what I been looking forward to

 

[invisiblehand13]

"Pulse ratings" are pretty much false/fake advertising. No real battery manufacturers use them, and rewrappers have almost certainly not tested their cells for any reliable "pulse discharge".

Sent from my Thor E using Tapatalk

The real issue is that even "if" they did test the pulse rating they never even specify for what length of time the pulse rating was even for lol, almost any battery could be listed as a 100 amp pulse rating if you gave the pulse rating based on milliseconds lmao

 

[invisiblehand13]

best ....ing reply yet!!! like 1 it was a great read tbh, 2 it was straight forward, 3 you were really cool about it. But thank you and also I'd like to know what dual parallel boxes you'd recommend. Color wise I mainly stick to black and red, also don't want anything more than about $150. Cause lately its been impossible to find what I been looking forward to

I was shopping a few months ago because it was bonus time at my facility and it seems dual parallel boxes aren't as popular as they were when I started vaping but there are a few...the vape breed box v2 by vape breed for $160 and I think they have a v2.5 but you have to order through their facebook page Log In or Sign Up to View and they come in white or black with gold trim, then there is the guti parallel v1 (not sure if they sell it anymore tho but they do have the series v2 from optimum mods which comes with a free engraving on the front plate included in the price but it is a series box so voltage is 8.4 instead of 4.2 and builds should be above at least 0.30 ohms) for $120 and they also come in white or black with gold trim, you have to contact them through their facebook page Optimum Mods full Mech and I think that was all the phillipino parallel box mods I found at the time (that fit your price range) but both are great mods and both fit 24-25mm attys no problem and then you have the fasttech route but they don't stock hardly any mechanical dual parallel box mods anymore and they are always of questionable quality becuase they are clones of older designs mostly and then you have the ebay route if you are looking for a hammond box style but if you have any experience with soldering and drilling and painting it is much more fun to make your own than pay someone on ebay $100+ to make you one with only like $25 worth of components lol plus you can sand down the sides yourself and get rid of that annoying hammond box lean that I hate.

 

[invisiblehand13]

best ....ing reply yet!!! like 1 it was a great read tbh, 2 it was straight forward, 3 you were really cool about it. But thank you and also I'd like to know what dual parallel boxes you'd recommend. Color wise I mainly stick to black and red, also don't want anything more than about $150. Cause lately its been impossible to find what I been looking forward to

If you haven't seen the "vaping bogan" channel on youtube I highly encourage you to watch him for more ideas on phillipino box mods if that is what you are looking for oh and I think there is one more from MCV, the ballistic mod...its a pistol grip magazine loading style mech...but it has a hybrid style 510 connection plate so you would need to use an atty with a protruding positive pin and it is for $180 in black and gold (when I say gold I mean brass but they look they same when its all shined up lol) and you can contact them throught their facebook page as well Masterpiece Custom VAPES

 

[ScottP]

"Pulse ratings" are pretty much false/fake advertising. No real battery manufacturers use them, and rewrappers have almost certainly not tested their cells for any reliable "pulse discharge".

Even if the battery has not been tested for or does not have one listed, it still has a pulse limit that is going to be higher than the CDR. That is the nature of how batteries work. The problem in these cases is you are trying to hit an invisible mark. I am not, by any means, suggesting that anyone should ever exceed the CDR rating. I am merely explaining how someone can make a video demonstrating that it is possible, at least in the short term.

Bottom line, if you are planning to build OVER the CDR you have to ask yourself one question:

 

[Eskie]

I think the real question is why is a 0.1 ohm build necessary to get big clouds and flavor. There are lots of ways to achieve that without resorting to a 0.1 ohm build on a mech in the first place. And if it’s a matter of using high metal mass builds then you need more amperage just to heat that up in a reasonable period of time, but it still doesn’t need to come in at super low resistance. In fact coming in at >0.3 ohm is preferable to get the metal hot before lunch is ready.

 

[Topwater Elvis]

.1Ω isn't necessary to get bro cloudz, excellent flavor and any amount of heat one chooses.
Ultra low resistance has become a ...... contest, something to brag about, a way to live on the edge, a badge of delusive badassery.

It is the easy button way, unfortunately the easy button is on top of the unsafe button, when the easy button is depressed so is the one under it.

I've said it dozens of times, if you know how to build efficiently you can get more cloudz than your lungs can inhale, excellent flavor and as much or as little heat as anyone could want and never exceed 10a draw.

 

[zoiDman]

I think the real question is why is a 0.1 ohm build necessary to get big clouds and flavor[?]. ...

 

[mimöschen]

I've said it dozens of times, if you know how to build efficiently you can get more cloudz than your lungs can inhale, excellent flavor and as much or as little heat as anyone could want and never exceed 10a draw.

And which build would that be?

 

[Baditude]

And which build would that be?

 

[stols001]

My kid can cloud up the great outdoors (it's raining today, I bet he's vaping) on a 0.3 coil on a regulated mod. He's Michael Phelps like, honestly, in terms of his lung capacity I guarantee he'd out cloud almost anyone on a 0.01 build on a mech mod, I can pretty much guarantee it.

There are other factors, like you know, airflow, type of coil, and wattage amount (though I think he was only at 70 or 80 watts, as well as type of juice and well, lung capacity, lung capacity lung capacity.

There's a reason the "Clouds brahs and cloud winning people" are mostly younger folks who either never smoked, or didn't smoke for a long time.

I don't care if I never smoke again, my lung capacity is probably PERMANENTLY reduced, I did some damage and will have to see how well it comes back.

But honestly, I think Lung Capacity is one of the biggest factors. Juice is another one often overlooked. I am far cloudier than your usual MTL person at say 7 watts, simply because I can't use PG. It is sometimes annoying, in fact.

And regardless of all of the above, you aren't going to get a very nice vape if it just blows up in your mouth. Why anyone would risk doing that is totally beyond me.... I kind of WISH I did, maybe I'd have a better chance of reasoning with them.... But probably not even then.

Anna

 

[Beamslider]

lol.....I only do about 20w on .5 ohm coil. And a large room looks like it was hit by tule fog after about 4 hits on the vape. After 6 or 7 you need a seeing eye dog to get around for a few minutes.

 

[Topwater Elvis]

And which build would that be?

Depending on what delivery device you're talking about & what it is in vape quality you're looking for any one of several hundred different build intricacy's & combinations.

I'm not participating in this thread to entertain tangential questions on the very beginning basics of building efficiently. In my opinion something everyone should already know before they build below .5Ω using a mechanical the very first time.
This thread is about battery safety & amperage started by an OP that has legitimate concerns.

 

[Eskie]

And which build would that be?

Try a dual kanthal Clapton 26/36 7 wraps, should come in around 0.5 ohm. Bet you get a nice warm cloud and flavor. You will have to hold the fire button a second or two to heat it up.

Eliminate the wrap and use plain round kanthal like that and you’ll still have a very solid vape. It will heat up a bit faster. If it’s still not hot enough drop by 1 wrap.