Battery usage question

[malkuth]

I have been using a single grand exclusively for about 6 months now (this is my only mod). When I first started using it, I would get an entire day from one battery. Now, using those same batteries, I am going through 3 batteries per day. (They are AW IMR 2000 batteries.) My juice usage has actually decreased in that same 6 months. When I first started, I was using a bottle per day. Now I am using between 1/2 to 3/4 of a bottle per day. I pull my batteries (usually) between 3.6 and 3.7 volts. The lowest (in my memory) that I have let the battery go is about 3.5 volts. I have three batteries in rotation, so they get to rest about a day between being charged and used. I always check them before inserting them in the REO, and they are 4.21 (one is 4.20).

Is this an indication that these batteries are failing? Should I just replace them (and thank them for their valiant service)?

I am using a RM2, 28 awg with 8/9 wraps on a 5/64 mandrel (about 1.2 - 1.3 ohm) and XC-132 wick.

 

[Funk Dracula]

Have you cleaned your firing pin contact?

 

[Raynman]

Sounds like it could be the batteries going. I really can't tell as I haven't had batteries go south on me yet.

 

[Funk Dracula]

It sounds unlikely that three batteries sharing cycling duties would go bad that quickly. A battery being used one out of every three days for 6 months is like 60 charge cycles, they should last 4 times that amount. I'd look into the charger... Or a dirty firing pin is causing wasted and inefficient discharge of the battery when firing.

 

[malkuth]

It sounds unlikely that three batteries sharing cycling duties would go bad that quickly. A battery being used one out of every three days for 6 months is like 60 charge cycles, they should last 4 times that amount. I'd look into the charger... Or a dirty firing pin is causing wasted and inefficient discharge of the battery when firing.

Note, evidently, I was not very clear. Each of the three batteries is cycled daily. I do clean the firing pin, btw.

ETA Having re-read the post, it appears that the batteries are good for 240 cycles? Since I have 180 cycles on them, it is not an unusual occurrence. Is the information about the 240 cycles published anywhere?

 

[Harlen]

Get new ones and see if it helps ?
For the cost of battery's and the savings they give us ,it's a cheep fix if that's what it is.
I'm still using my 6 month old ego's in a three way rotation and they are still giving me a full day each .

 

[Funk Dracula]

Most every site I've ever looked up info specs on the AW IMR claim it should last > 500 cycles. 240 is a super conservative realistic expectation I would give it considering non-ideal storage, manufacturers over state specs etc.

180 is unacceptable, something is wrong. It may be your charger. Do you remove the batteries after they are fully charged? Do you "fast charge" them? Does your charger "trickle charge"?

 

[ltrainer]

Just to add to this discussion. If a battery is 1/4 discharged and placed in a charger that counts as 1/4 charge cycle not as a complete charge cycle. Lithium batteries will age over time even when they are not used. I've heard 2 to 3 years but I have no hard evidence or reference at this time to back this up. Its important to buy batteries from a vendor that has not had batteries in stock for a protracted amount of time. I suspect that many batteries degrade not from use but from age. My IMR AW 1600s are over 2 years old and still working quite well. I rotate 3 of them. I don't mean this to imply that your batteries are degraded but just as another part of the whole discussion.

 

[malkuth]

Most every site I've ever looked up info specs on the AW IMR claim it should last > 500 cycles. 240 is a super conservative realistic expectation I would give it considering non-ideal storage, manufacturers over state specs etc.

180 is unacceptable, something is wrong. It may be your charger. Do you remove the batteries after they are fully charged? Do you "fast charge" them? Does your charger "trickle charge"?

The charger is an Intellicore I4. The batteries are removed as soon as they are charged. Based on the documentation from the company, there is no "trickle charge",

 

[Raynman]

I'm at a loss, but will keeping an eye on this for future reference. Thanks for bringing this up. Hope it gets resolved soon.

 

[Filthy-Beast]

All other factors being equal a battery that, dissipates it charge, drops voltage, faster is going. Use it until the useful length of charge becomes a problem.

If the battery has reached this condition too early then it's probably from being over charged or discharged to low. I had one charger that was charging to 4.32 volts

 

[Funk Dracula]

The charger is an Intellicore I4. The batteries are removed as soon as they are charged. Based on the documentation from the company, there is no "trickle charge",

Is this your charger? http://www.nitecore.com/productDetail.aspx?id=18

I dunno about that intelligent shenanigans. According to the site a microprocessor automatically detects the batteries status and selects the appropriate charge mode (CC, CV, or Trickle Charge).

Seeing as the Reo has so little that could go wrong and cause this problem, it's either the charger or itrainers suggestion that maybe, just maybe the three batteries you bought (did you get them at the same time?) were old as heck stock coming to you in the first place.

The problem with not knowing if it is the charger or not is; if you buy new batteries and the charger was to blame, your just ruining another set of batteries.

I just use an el'-cheap-o Trust Fire 500mA and pull 'em out when the light turns green. It works fine for me because I know it doesn't charge too fast, it cuts off at 4.2V, and if it busts no big loss. My older pair of AW's are at least past 300 cycles at this point. Maybe the same perks of a Reo being a mechanical slightly apply to the battery charging world? Throw in a microprocessor, automation and bells and whistles and things may go wrong...

 

[Ian444]

Do your batteries charge in a shorter time than they used to? If so, that would indicate a loss of capacity. How many hours does your charger take to charge your batteries?

 

[malkuth]

Do your batteries charge in a shorter time than they used to? If so, that would indicate a loss of capacity. How many hours does your charger take to charge your batteries?

I have noticed that sometimes they charge real fast. Typically they take between 1-2 hours. There have been occasions where they took a really long time to charge (more like 4). I purchased them from RTD, and I remember when I first got them, they took seemingly forever to charge. I am going to order more batteries and compare them to the ones I already have. This time around, I am going for the 1600 instead of the 2000.

 

[Funk Dracula]

I have noticed that sometimes they charge real fast. Typically they take between 1-2 hours. There have been occasions where they took a really long time to charge (more like 4). I purchased them from RTD, and I remember when I first got them, they took seemingly forever to charge. I am going to order more batteries and compare them to the ones I already have. This time around, I am going for the 1600 instead of the 2000.

RTD has a decent amount of occasions where their batteries run out of stock, so we can probably rule out NOS. What are the chances you received three bad batteries from a trusted vendor? Pretty unlikely. If you agree with me, we can probably conclude that it is the charger, because at 180 cycles something is definitely going wrong.

I'd consider adding good ol' el-cheapo to your cart if you order from RTD again. No microprocessors, no fancy displays, just red and green lights. Xtar WP2 II - Battery Chargers

-B

 

[clstearns]

I have been using a single grand exclusively for about 6 months now

When was the last time you rebuilt your coil? I know that coils will drop in resistance over time, so if you've been running this coil for a long time, it's quite possible that the resistance has dropped to 1.0-1.1, meaning you'd go through batteries more quickly.

ALSO - you mentioned that you clean the firing pin. Have you also cleaned the contacts on your batteries and cleaned the spring on the reo? When I give mine a bath, I tend to noalox the battery on positive and negative just to make sure i get plenty on the spring and firing pin also. A dirty spring can give the same effect as a dirty firing pin.

One final thing: Have you ever turned your RM2 into the hole so tight that it might have been done by Orcs? Because it's also possible that the insulator on the contact is causing a small short and draining your batteries quickly (though I'm not sure this is likely, because it would probably short so hard the batteries would fail).

 

[malkuth]

When was the last time you rebuilt your coil? I know that coils will drop in resistance over time, so if you've been running this coil for a long time, it's quite possible that the resistance has dropped to 1.0-1.1, meaning you'd go through batteries more quickly.

My coil is changed about every two weeks at the max. I think I am doing good to get a coil to last that long.

ALSO - you mentioned that you clean the firing pin. Have you also cleaned the contacts on your batteries and cleaned the spring on the reo? When I give mine a bath, I tend to noalox the battery on positive and negative just to make sure i get plenty on the spring and firing pin also. A dirty spring can give the same effect as a dirty firing pin.

Yes, I clean the battery contacts as well.

One final thing: Have you ever turned your RM2 into the hole so tight that it might have been done by Orcs? Because it's also possible that the insulator on the contact is causing a small short and draining your batteries quickly (though I'm not sure this is likely, because it would probably short so hard the batteries would fail).

No, I do not over tighten my RM2. I never have the cap on the RM2 when I attach it to the REO. Basically, the RM2 is finger tight. When I tighten the post screws, it almost supplies enough force on the RM2 to tighten it to the REO. I have had that happen before (tightening the post screws to secure the coil causing the RM2 to tighten slightly.

I took my latest discharged battery, and put it in a el cheapo charger. The charge time was about the same, maybe a little more. I checked the voltage of the battery coming off the charger and it is the same as when I check them prior to putting them in the REO (4.19 - 4.21 volts). I will report back on the duration of the charge.

All told, it may just be my style of vaping. Maybe I am just hard on batteries. I take about 5-10 second tokes. I have found that I will evaporate the juice that is on the wick and have to wait a couple seconds to allow the center of the wick to draw juice from the tails of the wick. I do notice that if I am chain vaping, the REO and RM2 get quite warm.

 

[rudy4653]

I have been using a single grand exclusively for about 6 months now (this is my only mod). When I first started using it, I would get an entire day from one battery. Now, using those same batteries, I am going through 3 batteries per day. (They are AW IMR 2000 batteries.) My juice usage has actually decreased in that same 6 months. When I first started, I was using a bottle per day. Now I am using between 1/2 to 3/4 of a bottle per day. I pull my batteries (usually) between 3.6 and 3.7 volts. The lowest (in my memory) that I have let the battery go is about 3.5 volts. I have three batteries in rotation, so they get to rest about a day between being charged and used. I always check them before inserting them in the REO, and they are 4.21 (one is 4.20).

Is this an indication that these batteries are failing? Should I just replace them (and thank them for their valiant service)?

I am using a RM2, 28 awg with 8/9 wraps on a 5/64 mandrel (about 1.2 - 1.3 ohm) and XC-132 wick.

Not to get off subject but how do you like your XC-132 wicks? I use the exact same setup only with 7wraps of 30 awg. 1.2 ohm
I get close to 4hrs on my mini with 14500 batteries. Good for about 2/3 bottle with 3mg bottle.

 

[malkuth]

Not to get off subject but how do you like your XC-132 wicks? I use the exact same setup only with 7wraps of 30 awg. 1.2 ohm
I get close to 4hrs on my mini with 14500 batteries. Good for about 2/3 bottle with 3mg bottle.

I think the wick is great! As I stated earlier, the center of the wick evaporates quickly (where the coil is). I wait a second or two, and the juice migrates from the tails to the center and it is like doing a squonk. The wick lasts me about a week (with NETs), and I do not get an off taste like with cotton. My wicks are about 3/4 inch long, so I leave some tails to suck up the juice.

 

[Funk Dracula]

I took my latest discharged battery, and put it in a el cheapo charger. The charge time was about the same, maybe a little more. I checked the voltage of the battery coming off the charger and it is the same as when I check them prior to putting them in the REO (4.19 - 4.21 volts). I will report back on the duration of the charge.

All told, it may just be my style of vaping. Maybe I am just hard on batteries. I take about 5-10 second tokes. I have found that I will evaporate the juice that is on the wick and have to wait a couple seconds to allow the center of the wick to draw juice from the tails of the wick. I do notice that if I am chain vaping, the REO and RM2 get quite warm.

Changing the charger for those batteries isn't going to save them. If they come off at 4.2 and don't last the full mAh they are toast. I was suggesting that along with your new batteries you not use that charger. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

I like your style of vaping! I too take 5-10 second puffs.. tho it is actually a bunch of puffs off of one button press. Mouth to lung and out the nose three or four times followed by a mouth to lung/direct hit to top it off with a nice plumy exhale. yummy.

-B