Battry power vs coild builds - not just the obvious rules

[Huriyet]

Hey all, I recently posted this http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...my-devine-comedy-build-whats-going-wrong.html

I've had some really fine points made but the issue I'm most curious about is battery power vs coil builds. If I'm using an AW 18650 1600mm high drain and am building a 4 coil set up will this battery power it? As of now the coils take much to long to heat up. I'm talking close to 10 seconds until full red.

Just a note that the battery is at full charge and tested on my smok tester through the mod. This is the only battery though that I have that is safe for my build so I can't compare to rule out the battery. All other details are mentioned in the link to previous post.

Thank you!

 

[derogg]

Four coils is a lot of wire to heat up depending on what size wire you are using. I would imagine you would be better off using thinner wire for multiple coils. If you are using a mech the most voltage you will get is 4.2 volts. I suppose a regulated mod might work better with step up.
- Dirk

 

[juggalofisher88]

^^+1^^
When you use multiple coils the piwer gets equally divided to each coil, so lets say your running at .88ohms fully charged that's roughly 20w of power
So you would have 5w going to each coil, aol theu would take longer to heat up, I would try using thinner wire vs lower ohms till you get better batteries, and/or dual coils I use 24g for my duals, and 28g for my quads.
I'm thinking of getting some more 30g to try some novelty octo builds lol

 

[KC33]

If you use Sony VTC 4's or 5's or MNKE 35amp you'll be fine. You really shouldn't use anything less than a 30amp battery with that build. I'm quite sure the battery you're using isn't 30 amps and you're taking a chance by using it.

ETA
Orbtronics also has a 30 amp for under 12 bucks. (SX30)

 

[Huriyet]

^^+1^^
When you use multiple coils the piwer gets equally divided to each coil, so lets say your running at .88ohms fully charged that's roughly 20w of power
So you would have 5w going to each coil, aol theu would take longer to heat up, I would try using thinner wire vs lower ohms till you get better batteries, and/or dual coils I use 24g for my duals, and 28g for my quads.
I'm thinking of getting some more 30g to try some novelty octo builds lol

I had 28g wrapped 11 times on 4 coils. I know this battery can handle the .6 ohms but not that much metal. I tried 2 coils or 28g wrapped 5 times. It lit up instantly. To bad the vapor off the cats RDA was awefull.

I tried 32g once wrapped 12 times on this RDA. Never again. One leg snapped just screwing it down. I think an octo would break my mind.

 

[Huriyet]

Those sony batteries are on order right now Even though the 4 coil build on this rda is increasingly less appealing to me.

I just wasn't focusing enough on power drop. I had allot of metal on that deck.

 

[TheKiwi]

I had 28g wrapped 11 times on 4 coils. I know this battery can handle the .6 ohms but not that much metal. I tried 2 coils or 28g wrapped 5 times. I lit up instantly. To bad the vapor off the cats RDA was awefull.

I tried 32g once wrapped 12 times on this RDA. Never again. One leg snapped just screwing it down. I think an octo break my mind.

I thought I should point out that the problem isn't really with whether a battery can "handle that much metal".

It's more of an issue with given a resistance and voltage, how much power (wattage) is generated, and consequently how much power each coil gets.

Now I don't know what inner diameter you're working with, but heck, even a 4 times of 11wraps of 28ga on a 1/16 is a lot of metal to heat up. There's a reason why quads are always low sub ohms and very high wattage set ups.


If you want better heat up time, you're gonna need a heck lot more wattage to drop from a 10 seconds heat up time to something more acceptable.




Burping out loud using Tapatalk

 

[Huriyet]

I think your absolutely right. I was at 3mm size wraps. Just not enough power with this AW battery. I tried running this rda at 2 coils last night of 28g, 5 wraps at 3mm running at .6ohms. It had horrible vapor production and was quite harsh. Not burnt, but harsh. It was very heavy on the lungs. Not sure what that means. Maybe my air flow wasn't lined up, or the wicking was bad.

 

[Pensilac]

I think your absolutely right. I was at 3mm size wraps. Just not enough power with this AW battery. I tried running this rda at 2 coils last night of 28g, 5 wraps at 3mm running at .6ohms. It had horrible vapor production and was quite harsh. Not burnt, but harsh. It was very heavy on the lungs. Not sure what that means. Maybe my air flow wasn't lined up, or the wicking was bad.

The problem is not that the battery is not putting out enough power, the AWs put out max 4.2v the same as Sony VTC4/5s or even 26650s. On a mech you'll need to build it at a lower resistance by either removing wraps or wrapping at a smaller diameter so you get more power. Just make sure that at whatever resistance you're building at your, amps don't exceed your batteries maximum rated limit. I'm pretty sure that is 24amps with your AW 18650s.

As for your dual 28ga build, I can imagine that should perform quite well. If it's not burning then more than likely it's that your airflow is not quite right, you need to make sure that it's hitting the coil straight on and that it's either level or a little bit above the coils. Could also be the wicking as you said, you might not have enough in the coil so that it is touching the whole inner surface of the coil. Last thing to check would be to make sure that the legs of the coils aren't lighting up as that can lead to some harshness as well.

 

[juggalofisher88]

I think your absolutely right. I was at 3mm size wraps. Just not enough power with this AW battery. I tried running this rda at 2 coils last night of 28g, 5 wraps at 3mm running at .6ohms. It had horrible vapor production and was quite harsh. Not burnt, but harsh. It was very heavy on the lungs. Not sure what that means. Maybe my air flow wasn't lined up, or the wicking was bad.

Try dual micro coils on a 2mm or 1.4mm tight touching wraps.
If you have to force cotton in its to much, it should easily slide back and forth in side coil.

Of course this could also be a product of your juice, higher pg= less vapor, high nic= throat hit/harsh.
I drip exclusivly at the moment, thinking real hard at getting a genny tho or going the bottom fed reo style way.
At the moment I use 75vg/25pg 6mg nic. I would prefer a 100vg to try but my vendor only has tobacco and menthol in vg.....

Also airflow could be a factor, if coils are positioned above airflow there will be less vapor but it will be hotter, I found for me the air holes lined up in middle of coil so air can travel above and under coil to work nest for me

 

[DaveP]

Most, if not all factory coils are 32ga wire. It heats fast and requires fewer coils to reach the target resistance, saving space. If you are doing two or more coils, thick wire may not be your best bet. You can do nano and micro coils and save space.

Dual coils are probably what would work best with a single 18650 battery (and you certainly don't want to stack batteries).

 

[Huriyet]

I'm pretty sure that is 24amps with your AW 18650s.



As for your dual 28ga build, I can imagine that should perform quite well. If it's not burning then more than likely it's that your airflow is not quite right, you need to make sure that it's hitting the coil straight on and that it's either level or a little bit above the coils. Could also be the wicking as you said, you might not have enough in the coil so that it is touching the whole inner surface of the coil. Last thing to check would be to make sure that the legs of the coils aren't lighting up as that can lead to some harshness as well.

They are rated for that yes. And with my .6 build only requiring about 7 of those I shoud be good. I guess what I'm having a hard time with is factoring in how the diameter and amount of wraps is affecting power. I've been using steam engine for wire configurations but what I have not taken into account is that you can achieve a specific ohm reading with a few different set ups. Seeing I'm trying to keep this above five ohms, with a 4 coil build it's very difficult without either using allot of wraps and a huge diameter.

I bet it is the airflow. I didn't think to look at the holes to coil symmetry. The wick I feel was good but I'm still in incipient stages of building so my certainty is with some reservation.

So the legs should not go red? How do avoid this?

Thank you, Pensilac.

 

[Huriyet]

Try dual micro coils on a 2mm or 1.4mm tight touching wraps.
If you have to force cotton in its to much, it should easily slide back and forth in side coil.

Of course this could also be a product of your juice, higher pg= less vapor, high nic= throat hit/harsh.
I drip exclusivly at the moment, thinking real hard at getting a genny tho or going the bottom fed reo style way.
At the moment I use 75vg/25pg 6mg nic. I would prefer a 100vg to try but my vendor only has tobacco and menthol in vg.....

Also airflow could be a factor, if coils are positioned above airflow there will be less vapor but it will be hotter, I found for me the air holes lined up in middle of coil so air can travel above and under coil to work nest for me

I tried a 2 coil with 3mm and they lit up nice but low quantity and harsh quality of vapor. Maybe I'll try 2mm. The wick looked good to me.

The juice was 70/30 vg heavy. I use this juice on an aspire and it's quite nice. I'm used to all vg as it is. Where I get my juice it's quite easy to get all VG of some flavors. But some other juice I like they unfortunately don't do all vg. I feel as though this will change as the demand grows. As it should. Juice makers think they know what we want but in fact we know what we want. If I want all vg than just give it to me!

Thanks for airflow points! Makes adjusting easier with some words of experience in what works for people.

 

[Huriyet]

Most, if not all factory coils are 32ga wire. It heats fast and requires fewer coils to reach the target resistance, saving space. If you are doing two or more coils, thick wire may not be your best bet. You can do nano and micro coils and save space.

Dual coils are probably what would work best with a single 18650 battery (and you certainly don't want to stack batteries).

Nano is all I've doing thus far. This deck is tight so 4 coils had to be nano. But yes I'm thinking with 28 or lower gage wire over 2 coils is allot work for the battery.

 

[juggalofisher88]

Nano is all I've doing thus far. This deck is tight so 4 coils had to be nano. But yes I'm thinking with 28 or lower gage wire over 2 coils is allot work for the battery.

I thought you was doing 3mm wraps?

 

[Huriyet]

Sorry yes your right. I was doing the nanos for the 4 coil build before on this RDA before I switched to 2. Until I perfect 2 coils, I'm not going back to 4. As it is though with the coil at 3mm, I'll likely to move that down to 2.5mm. Unfortunately with this particular RDA I can't get a big vape that's also not harsh with my current build. Maybe the wicking is bad. I'm pretty new in the wicking realm.

 

[vapdivrr]

be careful my friend, for im not so sure you have fully grasped what your attempting.

 

[Kemosabe]

another thing to consider when observing that your coils dont glow so quickly is the conductivity of your mod and the atty itself. mods and attys with SS pos pins are less conductive than attys with brass/copper/silver or gold plated pins. less conductivity = less power to the coils. modding the atty is possible but there are lots of attys that come with a copper pos pin stock. same goes for mods. lots of mods are made of pure copper but in leiu of purchasing a new mod, you can mod your mod with copper foil tape to increase conductivity. this is assuming of course that your mod and atty are not made of highly conductive material and if they are, my apologies. im simply offering another facet/possible solution to your issue. and id also like to stress what vapdivvr brought up above. please be careful and do your research.

 

[sahsah]

I had 28g wrapped 11 times on 4 coils. I know this battery can handle the .6 ohms but not that much metal. I tried 2 coils or 28g wrapped 5 times. It lit up instantly. To bad the vapor off the cats RDA was awefull.

I tried 32g once wrapped 12 times on this RDA. Never again. One leg snapped just screwing it down. I think an octo would break my mind.

If you've really got your heart set on a quad coil set up (and honestly, I don't know why you would since the same vapor/flavor production can be achieved with dual coils or even single coil builds with the right coils) then I'd strongly recommend you lower the number of wraps on your coils, ie 11 wraps on four coils is an outrageous amount of kanthal you're trying to heat up. I'd recommend the entire build for a quad coil array to measure out to a resistance somewhere in the .25-.4 ohm range (with the proper batteries only of course, meaning something allowing 30 amps or more) to achieve optimum results in coil ramp up time, flavor/throat hit, and vapor production. Hope that helps. Good luck.
seriously though, why are you set on the idea of quad coils? It's just super impractical in so many different ways with no real benefits I can think of.

 

[sahsah]

Those sony batteries are on order right now Even though the 4 coil build on this rda is increasingly less appealing to me.

I just wasn't focusing enough on power drop. I had allot of metal on that deck.

Also, what would be invaluable in troubleshooting your build with you and allowing us to provide step by step relive not and pertinent tips instead of just everything that could be wrong or potentially repeating things that aren't actually issues with your set up would be PICTURES OF YOUR SETUP. Seriously, if we had some photos of your build I'm sure we could get to the root of what's causing the Vape to dissatisfying in a very short amount of time. Nothing fancy is necessary, lol no need to call in glamour to set up a photo shoot for your rda and mod, even cell phone pics should be more than adequate