Thinking about this ... in this case there's not really an equibrium involved, it's just entropy i think
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Thinking about this ... in this case there's not really an equibrium involved, it's just entropy i think
And of course everyone will need MORE crap to get their old level of good stuff = more sales
I'm accustomed to thinking of entropy thermodynamically, but your sense of the term works as well.
One could also view it as a diffusion process via brownian motion... sort of. Macro forces such as convection would also be at work that would overcome (via their stronger outside force) the stricter sense of the term.
Back to tobacco (that was the topic, right?), OH- is relatively free to move throughout the tobacco, and could encounter resistance at intact cell walls, or possibly permiate into a cell but not back out. I'm really hazy on the whole osmotic pressure thing, and I'm not pulling down a textbook at this hour!
It would be a fair presumption to think that an extraction using a good excess of solvent with multiple cycles would eventually be limited by the degree of intact cells along with the solvent's (and OH-) ability to permiate in and back out.
Best bet short of a high powered sonic extractor or an infinite discussion: Pulverize your tobacco, the finer, the better.
raw tobacco:
raw tobacco + coffee grinder:
finished product (grinded tobacco and 3:1 VG/WTA):
Is this about the color others are getting?
(there is a little glue on the outside of that jar, this the kitchen method, right
)tobacco is "Golden Harvest" natural blend.
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Hi John King,
Color looks good. What was your method? The carbonate - oil - citric acid method ? Did you do any filtering ?
Looks like the first two pics show oil and water layers, is that right ?
How much robacco and volume of end-product ?
How does it vape ?
Color looks good. What was your method? The carbonate - oil - citric acid method ? Did you do any filtering ?
Looks like the first two pics show oil and water layers, is that right ?
How much robacco and volume of end-product ?
How does it vape ?
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I posted the link to that study and also below it a link to an abstract that had shown that nicotine in tobacco is in salt form which is why, I think, they had such good results with the water extraction in the first study.
Would this also be true for the other alkaloids? I hadn't thought of that when i did my extraction because it was before anyone was talking about something missing in the e-juice and I was just thinking about the nic.
Almost certainly all the alkaloids would be affected pretty much the same re ratio of freebase to salt. As crops ripen in autumn the leafs become more acid, Those with anthocyanins (that act as a pH indicator) turn yellow / red. This promotes the salt form. Post drying and curing might further promote the salt form.
Water is not too bad a solvent for the freebase forms too, so just water alone will likely get most of the alkaloids, but a bunch of other too; without he base-acid extraction that greatly favors alkaloids only, there would be quite a few other solubles in the extraction.
Thanks for that study; it was interesting.
>>Looks like the first two pics show oil and water layers, is that right ?
yes
I followed your method posted here:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...s-more-effective-e-liquid-87.html#post2644164
No filtering, just used oil/water separations. I was actually surprised that it came out that clean, I did think that I would have to filter something at some point.
I didn't get exact figures on volume as I was pretty much eye-balling and not taking notes, just feeling out the process.
robacco? Is that the throwaway material? I did try to filter that but it was pretty sludgy and couldn't figure out a good use for the end product so I tossed it, why vape the tars but thought it might be useful for flavor?
Again, thanks to all of you guys for walking this through.
Great to hear. I guess you used the tobacco more or less as was, not liquidized/chopped, to get such a clear result, and some patience
'robacco' was just a typo. After the extraction it is no use for anything.
It is pretty easy to do, especially after a trial run to get the feel.
So how does it vape ?
Great to hear. I guess you used the tobacco more or less as was, not liquidized/chopped, to get such a clear result, and some patience
'robacco' was just a typo. After the extraction it is no use for anything.
It is pretty easy to do, especially after a trial run to get the feel.
So how does it vape ?
I took the mush (grinded) and put it into a rag folded over several times, rinsed and wetted with distilled water, put on rubber gloves and wrung it out, I did not try to get every last drop as my understanding is that the carbonate does the work, not the wringing, I could have given it a harder wring and gotten more but didn't want sludge to deal with.
I am going to blend it with some juice and give it a try, I tried it straight up but it was hard to get a feel for anything, I probably need a better control subject than myself
. I'm thinking 2:1, 24mg juice:WTA, I vape 24 mg now so that should give me some indication of synergies, does that sound about right? the 2:1?
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I am going to blend it with some juice and give it a try, I tried it straight up but it was hard to get a feel for anything, I probably need a better control subject than myself
Yes, a good first try ratio. Maybe just blend 1ml like that and try it.
For future, the water extract and VG might be better mixed 1:4 rather than 1:3 so it is 80% VG; otherwise it might not produce much vapor. The specific heat capacity of water is high so a mix with water content above 10% gets increasingly difficult to vaporise.
One could wring that last liquid through a pre-wetted (distilled water) coffee filter, to see how much more there migh be, and if it was as good.
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I have a problem with muck in the final liquid. It looks clear and bright, but it gums up the atties quite badly (and terminally). That, along with the lack of vapour production from this WTA juice makes it quite hard work to actually use. I am guessing that the press is the villain in this as it forces out fine silt with the oil.
Something can try.
Place a drop or two of the liquid (ideally before adding VG) onto a clean white saucer and leave in a cupboard to evaporate. See if there is any residue. Or quickly - just vape off a few drops on a shiny teaspoon with a cig lighter.
If the residue is a whitish powder/crystal-like, it could well be the citric acid. In which case it should be removable with calcium carbonate or calcium hydroxide.
It is a temptation to push out every last drop of the initial mash but maybe go lighter on that process, I think the silt is the stuff we don't want (tar and others).
Indeed, we don't want those but they should be insoluble and so precipitate or can be filtered. But fair enough to approach it as you said. Will certianly be easier to achieve a clear result.
ok, just did a 3 ml batch at 2:1, juice:WTA, put on a fresh atty and cart and I'll make it my go-to for a bit, see what happens. The juice I used is a fairly strong tasting one, I did lose some flavor but it is not a deal-breaker, the vapor production is fine. I suppose I could bump with flavor drops if I had to.
yes, without more sophisticated tools to clean it up, it is a GIGI situation
yes, without more sophisticated tools to clean it up, it is a GIGI situation
Gigi ? - The 1944 novella by French writer Colette ?
hehe
no, a word play on GIGO (garbage in, garbage out).
It just occurred to me that when I wrung out the mash , I wrung it out into a bowl, from there I siphoned out the liquid to move it into a jar, I'm sure I left some silt behind.
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