Beta Carboline MAOIs - towards a more effective e-liquid

[kardenm]

I hate messing with water extractions. the tobacco soaks up 5 times it's volume like a sponge, and then turns into a mush that can't be worked with. Maybe I'm doing it wrong?
If interested, there is a good writeup in the "Lorillard" papers on water extraction, including a multistep partitioning approach that greatly increases initial concentration. Someone have the link? I lost my bookmarks when I changed OS.

I've used heavy mineral oil with great success. the SG and viscosity difference isn't huge.
Vegetable oils may be better. I left them alone to try to eliminate variables.... which there are a lot of in vegetable oils.
All the extra stuff in vegetable oils may make it a more aggressive solvent, but not necessarily for the stuff we want.
DVap has confirmed the alkaloids miscibility in mineral oil.

Thanks for the info tceight.

I did a water extraction with snus. Was pretty easy to squeeze the snus pouches almost dry (with rubber gloves) then filter out the fines. Then the problem is to much water volume like kina said (which could be reduced).

I tried to vape some of that extract but was not impressed (like virk was). To much water, to much junk.

BTW, what is "SG"?
I guess I'll stick with the heavy mineral oil for now.

 

[Virk]

...I did a water extraction with snus. Was pretty easy to squeeze the snus pouches....Then the problem is to much water volume.....I tried to vape some of that extract but was not impressed (like virk was). To much water, to much junk.....

It appears that my strong reaction to the simple snus water extraction liquid was due to the fact that I had already removed the MAOIs from my system and had no tolerance to them at all. Now that I've used this simple WT(A) for several weeks I no longer get this reaction.

I still get a sufficient "calming" effect but I can definitely tell now that I've built up a tolerance already. Key words here to me are 'sufficient' and 'tolerance' oh, and of course, 'simple' - this process is performed very quickly and gets the job done.

I vape less often still but now I am pretty sure I crave the wta rather than the nicotine. Going to drop the wta for a few days and see if I go insane with withdrawls.

edit: Oh also, the amount of water used can be reduced significantly by using glass cylinders. A whole tin of snus in 10ml works and is pretty strong especially after squeezing. My old batches were 15 - 20 ml. I have not yet tested removing the pouches, I imagine that will be quite messy.

 

[Bagazo]

I realize that's defeating the built in saftey of the method to some degree but may not be necessary to evap all of the water and you would also have alot of garbage still. But i still might try it if there is a way to get the alkaloids to then go into the oil.

That's exactly what I did. I started off with 100g of tobacco and 1 liter of water. I don't know if the tobacco type makes a difference, normal cigs are made with a paper sheet made from the pulped tobacco, but I used natural leaf chopped into about half inch squares and a potato press and got back over 900ml.

If the tobacco had a 5% nic content that would mean that I would get a max of 5g in 1000ml or 5mg/ml. I then evaporated down to 100ml so that would mean 50mg/ml. High for vaping but not dangerous to handle. The rest would be the normal acid/base extraction process to get the alkaloids to go into the oil and then back into water.

 

[YoYo]

So what if you popped CigRx lozenges and just vaped regular nicotine liquid like usual?

My guess is that you are going to say it isn't as satisfying as WTA, since the only extra alkaloid would be anatabine. But on the other hand it is simple and safe for lay people like me, although more expensive, for sure.

 

[YoYo]

So what if you popped CigRx lozenges and just vaped regular nicotine liquid like usual?

My guess is that you are going to say it isn't as satisfying as WTA, since the only extra alkaloid would be anatabine. But on the other hand it is simple and safe for lay people like me, although more expensive, for sure.

and some Passion Flower as directed on the bottle for some harmines.

 

[Virk]

It would appear that WTA is coming to market soon...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/e-cigarette-news/165510-unusual-new-ruyan-patents.html
post #4

The patent...
United States Patent Application: 0110036365

look at claim #6

 

[kinabaloo]

It would appear that WTA is coming to market soon...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/e-cigarette-news/165510-unusual-new-ruyan-patents.html
post #4

The patent...
United States Patent Application: 0110036365

look at claim #6

Seems oddly cumbersome and likely to lead to inconsistent results for the device to create a tobacco solution.

As I believe Ruyan devices use piezo vibration rater than heating to create a mist, there would not be heat decomposition of solutes; however, this stuff will end up in the lungs!

Less WTA than a regressive move back to direct tobacco use in a clumsy manner. Not impressed. But at least there's recognition that nicotine is not all.

 

[kinabaloo]

"One significant application of calcium hydroxide is as a flocculant, in water and sewage treatment. It forms a fluffy charged solid that aids in the removal of smaller particles from water, resulting in a clearer product. This application is enabled by the low cost and non-toxicity of calcium hydroxide. It is also used in fresh water treatment for raising the pH of the water so that the pipes won't corrode where the base water is acidic." Wikipedia.

Sounds like it might kill two birds with one stone.

What happened with the fish and chips method ???

 

[slopes]

What happened with the fish and chips method ???

LOL - if you mean the Salt n' Vinegar - it's in the fridge right now chilling out!

NB: The pollen press was a bit of a flop though

 

[kinabaloo]

LOL - if you mean the Salt n' Vinegar - it's in the fridge right now chilling out!

NB: The pollen press was a bit of a flop though

Why's that ?

And, er, why's that ?

~~

ps: have you tried any DIY e-cigs from disposable (their cartomisers / atties) ?

 

[slopes]

Why's that ?

And, er, why's that ?

~~

ps: have you tried any DIY e-cigs from disposable (their cartomisers / atties) ?

The sodium chloride transforms the nicotine salts into hydrochlorides which are insoluble in the cold salt solution and are precipitated during the chilling.

The press failed because the material placed into it just sort of disappeared up into the body of the machine when I turned the screw!!

I haven't tried any disposable e cigs (?) - are they any good?

 

[tceight]

BTW, what is "SG"?
I guess I'll stick with the heavy mineral oil for now.

SG is specific gravity,
from an old post, http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...s-more-effective-e-liquid-43.html#post1809866
'light' mineral oil has an SG of 0.85, and the 'heavy' mineral oil is 0.88,
and a link to 206. Food-grade mineral oil (FAO Nutrition Meetings Report Series 48a)

 

[tceight]

and some Passion Flower as directed on the bottle for some harmines.

a 'designer vape' sounds fantastic, if you have the means and wherewithal to do it. Suggest an MAO-B like selegaline as a place to start that could make vaping a neuroprotective and nootropic tool as well.
Save yourself some time, and do a search on here to see what has already been attempted. Then be sure to let us know how things work out with that approach.

 

[kinabaloo]

The sodium chloride transforms the nicotine salts into hydrochlorides which are insoluble in the cold salt solution and are precipitated during the chilling.

The press failed because the material placed into it just sort of disappeared up into the body of the machine when I turned the screw!!

I haven't tried any disposable e cigs (?) - are they any good?

Hydrochlorides - interesting; keep me informed.

Press - that's a pity. Wonder if a suitably sized O-ring could be inserted; or something like that.

Disposables - not yet, but as some are £4.99 might be worth a try (I believe they are cartomisers).

 

[tceight]

The sodium chloride transforms the nicotine salts into hydrochlorides which are insoluble in the cold salt solution and are precipitated during the chilling.

Having trouble buying this.... first, that nicotine hydrochloride would form, and second that nicotine hydrochloride which is highly soluble in water would become insoluble at fridge or freezer temperatures.

 

[kinabaloo]

SG is specific gravity,
from an old post, http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...s-more-effective-e-liquid-43.html#post1809866
'light' mineral oil has an SG of 0.85, and the 'heavy' mineral oil is 0.88,
and a link to 206. Food-grade mineral oil (FAO Nutrition Meetings Report Series 48a)

The viscosities though are world' apart!

 

[kinabaloo]

Having trouble buying this.... first, that nicotine hydrochloride would form, and second that nicotine hydrochloride which is highly soluble in water would become insoluble at fridge or freezer temperatures.

Would seem so, but worth a few grams to be sure.

 

[kardenm]

----edit: Oh also, the amount of water used can be reduced significantly by using glass cylinders. A whole tin of snus in 10ml works and is pretty strong especially after squeezing. My old batches were 15 - 20 ml. I have not yet tested removing the pouches, I imagine that will be quite messy.

Thanks for the update virk. Let us know what you discover.

Water volume can also be easily reduced by simply letting stand open for a couple days to evaporate (if you're not in a hurry).

 

[Bagazo]

I did a water extraction with snus. Was pretty easy to squeeze the snus pouches almost dry (with rubber gloves) then filter out the fines. Then the problem is to much water volume like kina said (which could be reduced).

I don't think a plain water extract would work with snus because it has it's ph raised which freebases the alkaloids so that they are not miscible with water but they are in mineral oil.

 

[kardenm]

SG is specific gravity

Yeah. Thanks. Should have realized that (duh ).

Thanks for the links.