Blown Up.

[The Eciginator]

The only experience I have with mechs is the Nemesis I just got last week, but it seems well designed. Four vent holes at the top, 2 small and 2 medium. 4 large vent holes at the bottom and a plastic insulator on the switch that holds the battery tight plus a locking ring to prevent accidental firing. I definitely wouldn't want electronics on a mech, defeats the purpose!

 

[Bad Ninja]

one of the big issues with bottom fired mechs is

the 18650 lithium battery is a can

the bottom of the 18650 battery is electrically connected to the sides

and the flimsy wrapper is depended upon by the bottom fired mech to be an insulator.

Yes.
Like a flashlight.

 

[Baditude]

Doesn't hurt to have some of the safety he suggested, I would think?

If the manufacturer wishes to address them, then sure.

But to regulate all simple devices like mechanicals to a list of requirements just because a few people are too lazy to learn and just want to look "cool" is ridiculous thinking.

I think some people are missing the entire point of a mechanical device.
I use them because they are raw and simple. If I wanted or needed more safeguards, I wouldn't have bought a mechanical mod.

That's you. The problem is, our vaporizers are being used next to our faces. Should something go wrong, then the consequences can be catastrophic. Mech mods are not the simple tool that a flashlight is. When was the last time a flashlight put someone into the intensive care unit on a respirator?

Man Severely Injured After E-Cigarette Explodes in his Face

Mech mods are being sold by vape shop employees who are not educating new vapers about their potential dangers. In some cases these shops are selling units which are using inadequate batteries or juice attachments whose coils are too low for these batteries. We see this being reported on this forum at least once a month.

If mechanical mods can be designed/manufactured to be safer, I believe it is up to the vaping community to demand it. If we don't, then the FDA most certainly will or will eliminate them from existance. Wouldn't the wiser thing be for the vaping community to regulate itself than have the FDA do it?

 

[Red_Fog]

That's you. The problem is, our vaporizers are being used next to our faces. Should something go wrong, then the consequences can be catastrophic. Mech mods are not the simple tool that a flashlight is. When was the last time a flashlight put someone into the intensive care unit on a respirator?

Man Severely Injured After E-Cigarette Explodes in his Face

Mech mods are being sold by vape shop employees who are not educating new vapers about their potential dangers. In some cases these shops are selling units which are using inadequate batteries or juice attachments whose coils are too low for these batteries. We see this being reported on this forum at least once a month.

If mechanical mods can be designed/manufactured to be safer, I believe it is up to the vaping community to demand it. If we don't, then the FDA most certainly will or will eliminate them from existance. Wouldn't the wiser thing be for the vaping community to regulate itself than have the FDA do it?

Couldn't have said it any better. Even I'm not from U.S but I want the whole community to sustain itself.

 

[Bad Ninja]

When was the last time a flashlight put someone into the intensive care unit on a respirator?

Man Severely Injured After E-Cigarette Explodes in his Face

Mech mods are being sold by vape shop employees who are not educating new vapers about their potential dangers. In some cases these shops are selling units which are using inadequate batteries or juice attachments whose coils are too low for these batteries. We see this being reported on this forum at least once a month.

If mechanical mods can be designed/manufactured to be safer, I believe it is up to the vaping community to demand it. If we don't, then the FDA most certainly will or will eliminate them from existance. Wouldn't the wiser thing be for the vaping community to regulate itself than have the FDA do it?

Actually it happens so often now that we use li-on batteries the govt issued A statement.
CDC - NIOSH Publications and Products - Exploding Flashlights (97-149)
You just don't see it on the news because it's not a prime time hot button topic with billions of tax legislation on the horizon.

Stop fear mongering with "it's gonna hurt the industry", because history tells us that's not gonna happen.
MAC laptops have been burning crotches for over a decade with zero government regulation changes.
Apple just said "ya, it happens".

http://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-macbook-battery-exploded/


Regulating the behavior of intelligent people will not protect the idiots, and protecting them isn't society's job.
Educating them is.

 

[The Eciginator]

The only experience I have with mechs is the Nemesis I just got last week, but it seems well designed. Four vent holes at the top, 2 small and 2 medium. 4 large vent holes at the bottom and a plastic insulator on the switch that holds the battery tight plus a locking ring to prevent accidental firing. I definitely wouldn't want electronics on a mech, defeats the purpose!

Oops, just looked at my Nemesis a little closer and what I thought were small vent holes were just alignment dimples for the two medium actual vents!

 

[Bad Ninja]

Oops, just looked at my Nemesis a little closer and what I thought were small vent holes were just alignment dimples for the two medium actual vents!

The top holes are for atomizers that draw air from the 510

 

[Baditude]

Stop fear mongering with "it's gonna hurt the industry", because history tells us that's not gonna happen.

I'm not fear mongering. Have you seen the sticky at the top of every ECF page? The National Call to Action?

Under pressure from Big Tobacco and Big Parm, the FDA is looking for any reason to put the ecig business OUT OF BUSINESS. I guarantee exploding e-cigs will be brought up. If they get their way, the only e-cig products that will be left after the FDA regulates the industry will be Blu, Vuse, and the other cigalikes.

I'm sure you'll say that won't affect you. You probably use mechs and RBA's, and can make your own e-liquid from scratch. Good luck finding liquid nicotine for sale when it gets held up by US Customs.

But the vaping industry as we know it today will be destroyed for new vapers who don't rebuild or make their own e-liquid. And what about smokers who may want to become vapers in the future? How many will actually be successful using only cigalikes?

 

[Bad Ninja]

I'm not fear mongering. Have you seen the sticky at the top of every ECF page? The National Call to Action?

Under pressure from Big Tobacco and Big Parm, the FDA is looking for any reason to put the ecig business OUT OF BUSINESS. I guarantee exploding e-cigs will be brought up. If they get their way, the only e-cig products that will be left after the FDA regulates the industry will be Blu, Vuse, and the other cigalikes.

I'm sure you'll say that won't affect you. You probably use mechs and RBA's, and can make your own e-liquid from scratch. Good luck finding liquid nicotine for sale when it gets held up by US Customs.

But the vaping industry as we know it today will be destroyed for new vapers who don't rebuild or make their own e-liquid. And what about smokers who may want to become vapers in the future? How many will actually be successful using only cigalikes?

You dont have to force me.
I AM right.



The FDA doesn't want to ban vaping and they wouldn't be the ones to instill safety regulations.

FDA doesn't regulate batteries.
But I think you know this.

I can make a guarantee too.

I "guarantee" exploding batteries will have zero bearing on the tax based FDA written legislation and regulation that WILL pass.

Yes, the safety information you post is accurate and good, and people should educate themselves and be safe, however anyone who pays attention to this issue knows there is only one thing guiding regulation and that's tobacco related tax dollars.

They can't make vaping to go away. They know that's impossible.

They CAN control it and control the revenue it generates by taxation of nicotine and taxation of vape specific hardware.


Once again, exoloding batteries have no effect on the upcoming regulations.
It's about money, not safety.

 

[The Eciginator]

You dont have to force me.
I AM right.



The FDA doesn't want to ban vaping and they wouldn't be the ones to instill safety regulations.

FDA doesn't regulate batteries.
But I think you know this.

I can make a guarantee too.

I "guarantee" exploding batteries will have zero bearing on the tax based FDA written legislation and regulation that WILL pass.

Yes, the safety information you post is accurate and good, and people should educate themselves and be safe, however anyone who pays attention to this issue knows there is only one thing guiding regulation and that's tobacco related tax dollars.

They can't make vaping to go away. They know that's impossible.

They CAN control it and control the revenue it generates by taxation of nicotine and taxation of vape specific hardware.


Once again, exoloding batteries have no effect on the upcoming regulations.
It's about money, not safety.

Then why the insistence on 2007 as the cutoff date? Oh I know they can't ban batteries but they can make ecigs so useless no one will seriously use them, and big batteries and their "danger" will figure into the regs.

 

[Bad Ninja]

Then why the insistence on 2007 as the cutoff date? Oh I know they can't ban batteries but they can make ecigs so useless no one will seriously use them, and big batteries and their "danger" will figure into the regs.

Id guess the date is arbitrary.

Ban e cigs?
Explain exactly How you think this can actually happen?

You can build a mechanical mod and atomizer with parts from Home Depot.

I think you forgot why they call them "mods".
If they ( the government)wanted to ban vaping they would simply (and cheaply) ban liquid nicotine extract.

That would be the ONLY way to BAN vaping, and it would work.
And everyone knows it. It would make all gear useless in one fell swoop.

However there hasn't been a single mention of banning nicotine extract.
Not a single word of it.
It's about revenue, not banning.

Keep eyes open, and don't drink the kool aide.

 

[The Eciginator]

Id guess the date is arbitrary.

Ban e cigs?
Explain exactly How you think this can actually happen?

You can build a mechanical mod and atomizer with parts from Home Depot.

I think you forgot why they call them "mods".
If they ( the government)wanted to ban vaping they would simply (and cheaply) ban liquid nicotine extract.

That would be the ONLY way to BAN vaping, and it would work.
And everyone knows it. It would make all gear useless in one fell swoop.

However there hasn't been a single mention of banning nicotine extract.
Not a single word of it.
It's about revenue, not banning.

Keep eyes open, and don't drink the kool aide.

Didn't say they'd ban Ecigs, just being able to purchase usable ones that aren't marketed by R.J. Reynolds. And banning nic for non industrial use guaranteed.

 

[Bad Ninja]

Didn't say they'd ban Ecigs, just being able to purchase usable ones that aren't marketed by R.J. Reynolds. And banning nic for non industrial use guaranteed.

Do you honestly believe that all that is because some idiot shorted a battery and blew up his mod?

Or do you understand this is all 100% about billions of dollars, taxes, and revenue control, and the regulations were coming from day 1?

Because I promise you it has nothing to do with safe vaping, and we would be looking at the exact same upcoming regulations, even if we had zero exploding batteries.

 

[The Eciginator]

You misunderstand, I totally agree this is about taxes and the grip of both BT and BP! I'm talking about what they are going to use to justify this! Nothing better than some idiot laying in a hospital bed with his face shredded!

 

[Bad Ninja]

You misunderstand, I totally agree this is about taxes and the grip of both BT and BP! I'm talking about what they are going to use to justify this! Nothing better than some idiot laying in a hospital bed with his face shredded!

It sure ain't gonna be exploding mods.

You misunderstand who the FDA is and what they do.

They do not need "justification".
Why would they even bother?

They are granted authority by the federal government over tobacco products, and have basically zero oversight.
They don't need to have an ulterior "reason", or public justification.

Please stop using that argument because it is based on false logic and a misunderstanding of how the FDA operates.

 

[Baditude]

Then why the insistence on 2007 as the cutoff date? Oh I know they can't ban batteries but they can make ecigs so useless no one will seriously use them, and big batteries and their "danger" will figure into the regs.

Id guess the date is arbitrary.

Ban e cigs?
Explain exactly How you think this can actually happen?

You can build a mechanical mod and atomizer with parts from Home Depot.

I think you forgot why they call them "mods".
If they ( the government)wanted to ban vaping they would simply (and cheaply) ban liquid nicotine extract.

That would be the ONLY way to BAN vaping, and it would work.
And everyone knows it. It would make all gear useless in one fell swoop.

However there hasn't been a single mention of banning nicotine extract.
Not a single word of it.
It's about revenue, not banning.

Keep eyes open, and don't drink the kool aide.

Didn't say they'd ban Ecigs, just being able to purchase usable ones that aren't marketed by R.J. Reynolds. And banning nic for non industrial use guaranteed.

Bad Ninja, have you even read the proposed FDA Regulations?

Why 2007 date was chosen by the FDA:

"In theory, anything that wasn't on the market prior to 2007 could be banned until it was approved for sale by the FDA, unless it could prove that it is “substantially equivalent” to a “grandfathered” product that was being sold. Because electronic cigarette designs have changed and improved so dramatically since 2007 and many weren't even on the market in the U.S. prior to 2007, this regulation could deny consumers access to hundreds of existing products (leaving them access only to products on the market prior to February 2007) and put many electronic cigarette companies out of business - unless and until they can demonstrate their product does not raise different questions of public health compared to the approved products. The criteria to gain this approval is highly subjective and required documentation could be time consuming and extremely expensive. However, there is speculation that this provision could be altered to allow the technologies that exist as of the deeming in 2013 (or perhaps some date in between). This would obviously be better than limiting consumers to outdated, pre-2007 products, but the current environment of fast-paced development and release of new e-cigarette technology would be stopped in its tracks."


FDA Deeming Regulation in a nutshell, per CASAA:

• Unless you use only the cigalikes produced by the largest manufacturers, the products you currently use likely won’t survive this regulatory process.
• Companies that produce the advanced products do not have enough money to pay for the FDA-created paperwork burdens.
• These paperwork burdens are not about actual health, safety, or quality control issues and provide absolutely no benefit to consumers.
• The result will be the elimination of the diverse products that offer smoke-free alternatives to smokers.
• Many vapers will likely return to smoking or be forced to buy products on the black market.

--Proposed FDA Regulations
​

Bad Ninja, if you wish to vape from a modified flashlight body, that's entirely your perogative. However, the vast majority of current and future vapers will not go to that extreme. The current proposed regulations would destroy the vapor industry for everyone except the Big Tobacco manufacturers.

 

[Layzee Vaper]

As soon as you make a mod with a user replaceable battery you are going to run into problems with people using inappropriate batteries for the task. A low current battery in a mech or a high powered regulated device is going to be a problem. Accidental hard shorts are going to happen sometimes no matter how educated or advanced the user is.

I really don't get why none of the major battery manufacturers have not produced a high current protected IMR battery yet.
I would have thought that there would be enough demand for a product like that. OK you would loose some battery capacity but it would be a much safer solution.

It would be nice if all of the mod manufacturers were more safety conscious, but trying to get hundreds of different mod manufactures to do this is going to be very difficult.

Surely getting the far fewer battery manufacturers onside would be a much easier task? After all its the batteries that vent not the mods.

It looks like the net is closing, regulation and taxation are going to happen to much money at stake for any other outcome, its got nothing to do with safety. Governments, BT & BP have been watching smokers kill themselves for decades.

 

[Bad Ninja]

Bad Ninja, have you even read the proposed FDA Regulations?

Why 2007 date was chosen by the FDA:

"In theory, anything that wasn't on the market prior to 2007 could be banned until it was approved for sale by the FDA, unless it could prove that it is “substantially equivalent” to a “grandfathered” product that was being sold. Because electronic cigarette designs have changed and improved so dramatically since 2007 and many weren't even on the market in the U.S. prior to 2007, this regulation could deny consumers access to hundreds of existing products (leaving them access only to products on the market prior to February 2007) and put many electronic cigarette companies out of business - unless and until they can demonstrate their product does not raise different questions of public health compared to the approved products. The criteria to gain this approval is highly subjective and required documentation could be time consuming and extremely expensive. However, there is speculation that this provision could be altered to allow the technologies that exist as of the deeming in 2013 (or perhaps some date in between). This would obviously be better than limiting consumers to outdated, pre-2007 products, but the current environment of fast-paced development and release of new e-cigarette technology would be stopped in its tracks."


FDA Deeming Regulation in a nutshell, per CASAA:

• Unless you use only the cigalikes produced by the largest manufacturers, the products you currently use likely won’t survive this regulatory process.
• Companies that produce the advanced products do not have enough money to pay for the FDA-created paperwork burdens.
• These paperwork burdens are not about actual health, safety, or quality control issues and provide absolutely no benefit to consumers.
• The result will be the elimination of the diverse products that offer smoke-free alternatives to smokers.
• Many vapers will likely return to smoking or be forced to buy products on the black market.

--Proposed FDA Regulations
​

Bad Ninja, if you wish to vape from a modified flashlight body, that's entirely your perogative. However, the vast majority of current and future vapers will not go to that extreme. The current proposed regulations would destroy the vapor industry for everyone except the Big Tobacco manufacturers.

Yes I've read it, and I'm very familiar with how the FDA operates.
The 2007 date is because Cigalike gear is what BT wants to sell us, not high end vape gear.
All 100% profit motivated, not based at all on user safety.

Back on topic.

Again: What's that got to do with an idiot shorting a battery?

That's user error and can (and does) happen more frequently with flashlights.

You are missing my point, and avoiding the facts.

None of the regulations have squat to do with exploding batteries.



The main thing hurting the industry is the lack of education.

Ever noticed how the true idiots fear that word but love to make rules and regulations?

 

[Mooch]

I really don't get why none of the major battery manufacturers have not produced a high current protected IMR battery yet.
I would have thought that there would be enough demand for a product like that. OK you would loose some battery capacity but it would be a much safer solution.

Technically it's probably not possible. There's no room in an 18650 to add the additional protection, which would be relatively bulky to keep its resistance down to minimize the impact on the cell's performance. And the vaping market is quite small compared to the other customers that buy Samsung, Sony, and LG cells. There's very little financial incentive to even try protecting them. Lastly, a large percentage of the Samsung, Sony, LG cells are used in multi-cell configurations, i.e., battery packs. These battery packs have their own battery management system (BMS) that ensures configurable, consistent protection at desired current, voltage, and temperature settings to ensure long battery pack life.

Alas, we as vapers are on our own. :-(