I see this meme pervading forums and no mention of a black market ever. I guess we'll just have to see if magically this will be the first industry ever to be treated harshly and no viable black market arises.
No, this will not be the first industry. If it was, then it would be a blessing because we could count on naive _ _ 's. But we can't. This has been going on for 10+ years with politically unpopular industries, many of which are in grey areas - like vaping. Generally, the more resistance (black market), the harsher the penalties become. That eventually raises the question of whether the public has a right to civil disobedence as a form of dissent. This is not new, nor can it be pinned on any one political party or administration. That would be too easy.
Basically, industry (corporate) rules and gov't is the tool they use.This may seem OT, but the same tools are available to squash attempts of a black market. I'm posting because there are just too many that think this is a viable option - and it may work for a little while, but if they (industry) dig their heels in - and based on the desperation I've seen so far, they just might (i.e. "all your dollars belong to us" = virtual lost sales that probably never existed).
Right now, I see both pharmacetical and tobacco industries in a war (vaping is the casualty) and both industries feel arrogantly entitled to profit from all nicotine sales. No exceptions. Sales outside of their circle of influence = lost sales. There is no tolerance to "share" a market. That's true for many industries, not just vaping, in the current business model they operate with. (Replace xx's with tt's for active links)
hxxp://torrentfreak.com/uptobox-bans-americans-after-visa-and-mastercard-pressure-140707/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Torrentfreak+%28Torrentfreak%29
File hosts are not illegal. There have been studies showing over 70% of files are not shared. I've used them for online backup which saved my asf when both by backup drive and my main hard drive failed within 4 days of each other. That included my legal music collection which currently, if found on a file host would be wiped out due to copyrights even though they had never been shared. So that 70% only counted people's home videos and pictures. Not backups. GRRRR.
A viable, legal form of backing up my backups is lost - not due to illegality. Most file hosts do NOT currently due business in the US and haven't for years - that's an economic exodus that's officially undocumented. The vaping industry as we know it is also officially undocumented.
The US considers any website or sales targeting US customers to fall under their laws, even if it's legal within the host country and has no questions asked extradition policies everywhere (except maybe N. Korea). This is one of the aspects making the MegaUpload case so interesting. The FBI were also caught illegaly tampering with evidence (more than once), wanted legit evidence that could prove innocence destroyed and they'll never see a day in US court. Racketeering amounted to a $180k advertising buy (Ignore the fact Dotcom isn't charismatic and annoying, he also isn't a US citizen).
That was a $2mill business presumptively destroyed. Dotcom did have a legit music sharing business that was about to go public in a month, largely hip-hop and house music. Muscians were paid per download (a major complaint from the US was the payments). A number of UMG contract acts were making the jump to the new service, including some Grammy winning acts. That's verified. Even their outrage wasn't heard in the headlines or moved Congress to open their eyes. Entire back catalogs were destroyed (illegaly). The NZ judge asked for documentation of the charges to approve extradiction (a first) and it's never been supplied. The case is ongoing ...
A way around the US blockade was to use a VPN and tools like tor, etc. Another article announced that VPN and Tor wouldn't be accepted any longer (due to US citizens using it - tools originally designed to assist free speech in countries like China). The FBI has made moves for years to make VPN use illegal and considers anyone using a service to be "suspicious". FYI the only encription safe on the internet is VPN and many people should be using it much more than what the public is aware of (EFF, Electronic Frontier Foundation). A change in administration hasn't and won't stop this. Both parties claim they are ignorant when it comes to anything internet/IT related. There's abuses with software patents and many other industries.
hxxps://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120831/07564420228/congressional-reps-question-feds-over-botched-domain-seizures.shtml
This should put a chill down anyones spine. With zero legal authority, ICE / Homeland Security can and has shut down hundreds of thousands of websites through top level domain seizures. It can take years and $$$$ dollars to gain a website back if it was legal. It's a full time job of doing nothing else to achieve, no resitution, notta. "Data is not property" Oh yea, well it is property when it's convienent. It's an amazing, court approved double standard. They feel totally justified shutting down 80,000 websites, throwing up an offical seal to capture 1 illegal website (that's just one instance), if you believe in innocent until proven guilty it's zero. It's jaw dropping. Techdirt does track these better than other sources and so far, I've been able to verify content (ARS Technica is good too).
Again, very apolitical. Most comments to either side result in answers "that it's too complicated" or obvious ignorance. Honestly, try explaining some of this stuff can get into the conspiracy therory realm except it's real.
There's also a number of small business' put out of business due to frivolous patent lawsuits. They don't have to have anything to do with the actual operation or production of the business, but just getting to court can cost millions and years, which puts many small business' out of business even if they find the funds to fight. By the time a decision is rendered it's too late to revive the small business.
A lot of the vaping industry is not patented - for good reason. It's not generally done with small companies since it requires tens of thousands to file. However the legal system ASSUMES all inventions are patented, therefore "similar or previous works" often consists of patent searches and little else. Comments on message boards may not be recognized as "previous publication/previous works". It gets complicated in that area and goes way, way above my head (the file extension of jpeg is one example).
I've heard of several companies put out of business by lawsuits, some were able to persue them in court with the final result being frivolous yet it was too late (years) to revive the original business. The company filing had used the product/idea and moved on by then. Both tobacco and pharmacetical companies file patents and sue for everything. I can't predict this will happen, nor am I aware that anything can be done about it. What I'm aware of is that lawsuits are another way to force a smaller company to sell (for MUCH less), eliminate competition or put a company out of business. One suggestion was for a small company with a novel product to "stay under the radar" (not challenge corporations, no advertising, underground) until a min. of 2 million was in reseve for defense. This has been going on for awhile and has been outside of any administration or Congress. Tiny patent reforms go nowhere on both sides of the aisle. This is the "all your dollars belong to us" corporate business model.
I just don't think people are aware of the times we live in. Legal or illegal is a matter of definition when democracy is used as an economic term for "freedom of the corporation to operate". That's why "populism" (the will of the public majority) isn't always well thought of. Bush spoke that way too. All I'm saying is that this has been going on for some time now and I really don't care "who started what". I just know that changing admin's doesn't seem to change this stuff.
I think Dr. Phillips was naive about the black market. If anyone knows of one that challenges profits from an existing legal industry - point it out. Pm me. The few I am aware of have had to go through some enormous measures, usually requiring a core group to sacrifice themselves. I don't know about the vaping industry - specifically nicotine.
