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Bootleggers, Baptists, and E-cigs

Discussion in 'Media and General News' started by Ardo, Apr 9, 2015.

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  1. Ardo

    Ardo Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 17, 2009
    Tallinn, Estonia
  2. this is my name

    this is my name Senior Member ECF Veteran

    That describes our entire struggle quite thoroughly. I liked this part... "A public that supports [other stuff] decriminalization is unlikely to support a ban on e-cigs."

    Still no reassurance they won't tax it obscenely, in fact I'm not sure they can afford NOT to tax vape stuff regardless of what the majority of sensible people think or believe, regardless of all the proof that they are saving lives.
    Ugh....

    Very informative read, thanks for the post.
     
  3. CarolT

    CarolT Super Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 22, 2011
    Madison WI
    This is written from the point of view of the investor class, who are true believers in government health lies. It is only instructive about how They think. Consumers are portrayed as a faceless, passive and voiceless mass who exist only to pay taxes (or not), and the implication is that we are supposed to define our own interests strictly within the framework that these amoral and cynical masters-of-the-universe create. To H with that.
     
  4. sofarsogood

    sofarsogood Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Oct 12, 2014
    Apparently there is a recent study analyzing Medicad, which is tax supported and insures 51% of american smokers, and finds that increasing adoption of ecigs saves taxpayers more than cigarette taxes collect.
     
  5. Kent C

    Kent C ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 12, 2009
    NW Ohio US
    Just to be clear.... this was written 'about' the point of view. The people writing it are not 'true believers in gov't lies' - just the opposite :)
     
  6. philoshop

    philoshop Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 21, 2014
    geneva, ny, usa
    A clear and concise overview of methods and motivations, and a nice look behind the the curtain of 'the wizards'.
    I've bookmarked this, in fact, specifically for a few friends who could be characterized as 'investor class true believers'.
     
  7. Robert Cromwell

    Robert Cromwell Moved On ECF Veteran

    Feb 16, 2015
    elsewhere
    Depends on which aspect of the government is speaking. Many totally believe one aspect of the government and completely diss the other side.
    The politicians they believe are still the government, but many follow blindly along, not seeing the overall truth.

    We have the best government that money can buy, and therein lies the problem.

    .
     
  8. Fuzzy Bruce

    Fuzzy Bruce Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    May 21, 2014
    Fort Liquordale, Fl.
    And here I thought this article was about vaping in western North Carolina. the title has all the earmarks.
     
  9. TyPie

    TyPie Super Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 13, 2013
    New Joisey (aka NJ)
    Fantastic find re: The US Tobacco Cartel! All in one concise article.
    Thanks for posting.....
     
  10. Kent C

    Kent C ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 12, 2009
    NW Ohio US
    This is from the Cato Institute's "Regulation" magazine - which is anti-regulation as the article should convey for those who read it. Their 'anti-regulation' policy includes not buying politicians to regulate. :)
     
  11. Just Me

    Just Me Super Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 4, 2010
    This was the best article I have ever read, very thorough, yet to the point. "Joe Public" usually only knows what they hear or read via the media. As I was reading, I wanted to get out my yellow highlighter!

    Instead of bookmarking it; I downloaded and saved it (thank goodness for pdf). I may just have some plans for this, locally.

    Thank you so much, Ardo!
     
  12. pianoguy

    pianoguy Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Nov 4, 2009
    Apple Valley, MN
    Very good article. It did overlook one other motivation for Big Pharma - lost sales of other drugs for other illnesses exacerbated by smoking. For example, when I switched to vaping, my migraine headaches disappeared, and I no longer needed Imitrex. And I have seen quite a few other folks report that they have either reduced or eliminated meds for high blood pressure, asthma, COPD, etc. I don't have a sense for how big a number this represents, but it has the potential to be much more than chicken-feed.
     
  13. Just Me

    Just Me Super Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 4, 2010
    That's a great point, pianoguy! I'm very fortunate at this point (a month shy of age 64) not to be taking any medication at all, but I know many people have to rely on meds on a daily basis for various ills. Thank you for bringing this to our attention!
     
  14. ronnbert

    ronnbert Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 7, 2014
    Sawmills, NC, USA
    Vaping in western NC is my daily life ;)
     
  15. Fuzzy Bruce

    Fuzzy Bruce Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    May 21, 2014
    Fort Liquordale, Fl.
    I have been known to spend some summers between Lake Lure and Bat Cave.
     
  16. Jman8

    Jman8 Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jan 15, 2013
    Wisconsin
    I like the way the article flows and concepts it chooses to run with (bootleggers and baptists).

    I dislike that it paints tobacco producers with a broad brush and seemingly is oblivious to idea that they became 'cartels' because anti-type activists waged a very visible propaganda war that started around 1960, and carries through, very visibly, to this day. Do that same thing to any other industry, and if they survive, I'd be surprised if the top companies aren't viewed, by some, as a cartel.

    Also dislike how it brings up the 2007 date, but neglects the Boehner letter that would move the grandfather date. Even mentioning that as something that could plausibly occur, by any politician(s), seems like negligence in what is an otherwise fairly well informed article.

    I think federal regulations are inevitable, but to think they will automatically fit into the way smokes were handled strikes me as way way way behind the times. Lawsuits, partisan politics and black market being all of what they currently are, will have a significant role going forward and if regulations are akin to FSPTCA, then all those items will come into play; with partisan politics being the least likely to have impact, and yet arguably most promising.
     
  17. ronnbert

    ronnbert Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 7, 2014
    Sawmills, NC, USA
    A lil farther west than me. I live in Sawmills. Most people don't know where that is, so I just say between Lenoir and Hickory.
     
  18. DC2

    DC2 Tootie Puffer Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 21, 2009
    San Diego
    I can't figure out if that is more profound than it is true.
    Or more true than it is profound.
     
  19. DC2

    DC2 Tootie Puffer Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 21, 2009
    San Diego
    Did that appear in the mainstream media?
    If so, I must have missed it.
     
  20. Robert Cromwell

    Robert Cromwell Moved On ECF Veteran

    Feb 16, 2015
    elsewhere
    However many of their followers are just as I described in my post.
     
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