Sure. But do you honestly think that a new Li-Ion battery technology would premier in a fringe product like an e-cigaret? I doubt it.
Break in period?
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To those battery experts who have posted here, please feel free to ignore not only the manufactures recommendations, but also the ones of the people who have experience with these 510 batteries.
I too have a basic understanding of lithium-ion batteries. I too have ignored the recommended 8 hour charge prior to use. Well, I'll be damned if those batteries aren't the shortest lasting ones I have.
So you battery experts can do what you want to do. Nobody is holding a water pistol to your head.
Nuff said....
I too have a basic understanding of lithium-ion batteries. I too have ignored the recommended 8 hour charge prior to use. Well, I'll be damned if those batteries aren't the shortest lasting ones I have.
So you battery experts can do what you want to do. Nobody is holding a water pistol to your head.
Nuff said....
That's probably the answer right there. I emailed Joye to see what they say. I'm still waiting on a response.
Of course, it could have very little, just a little, more than a little, or quite a bit to do with it. All I know is that I've physically experimented both ways. My 'conditioned' batts are holding up and keeping a charge longer than my 'unconditioned' ones. My wife and I started with a Joye510 each. She wanted the autobatts, hehe, so I gave her mine for her manual. She also got in a hurry and removed them when the light turned green and started vaping. Now she is always complaining that her batts aren't lasting as long as mine. Hmmm....I wonder why.
Hehehe.edited to add - Don't worry, we've bought several more sets as backups and she now LOVES the manual batts. We faithfully condition each and every one from here on out. If you're wondering what happened to the autobatts? They finally crapped completely out last month, so they are no longer in rotation. My original manuals? Still going strong.
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Don't get me wrong. I'm not pressing for any particular viewpoint here. I'm just curious what evidence y'all have to support the idea that the bats need to be conditioned.
One thing I think it bears pointing out is that there are some who claim the conditioning cycle to be successful, others who see no difference when not doing a conditioning cycle first. Both reports are anecdotal. Both are equally reliable/suspect.
One thing I think it bears pointing out is that there are some who claim the conditioning cycle to be successful, others who see no difference when not doing a conditioning cycle first. Both reports are anecdotal. Both are equally reliable/suspect.
Just asking here as I don't know,, Could the batts be the newer li-poly batts that have recently come out? I ask because they are different then the batts on my 4081 which are older, heavier and bigger around. I recently had a manual loose the button inside the battery casing. If you know where the button is I can tell you that the batt is not under it or on the side where the atty attaches. It is at least a quarter inch farther from the button hole. This would make the batt only half the size of the batt casing, slightly maller then a AAA. Could this explain a newer charging cycle?
In the end, it really doesn't matter. If you follow the manufacturers instruction it doesn't hurt. I'm sorry for the way this thread turned out. You should follow the instructions. It is nice to know that, after the initial charges are complete, there is a circuit protecting the battery from being over charged and from being overly discharged. It's a win win for us all. This new Li-Ion battery is much better and lasts longer than the older types of batteries.
Kevin
Kevin
It's no biggie, Kevin. They all work. Except for my wife's autobatts, hehehe. They've crapped out after about 180 cycles (apx). My first manuals are still going good and are approaching 250 cycles now. I'm interested in finding out how long they go. They have declined somewhat in retaining a charge versus the new ones I have in rotation, and they were the longer/no LED models I originally bought from Parker. So far though, I think the manual batts compared to my old autos -even the 901 and 801 autos, have given me great service. I find it hard to even pick up an autobatt anymore.
No matter what, there will NEVER be agreement reached on charging this type of battery! It's the same on cell phone forums and I'm sure any other place where charging lithium-ion batteries is questioned. There always seems to be knowledgeable people on opposite sides of the debate.
While I have my doubts that it is necessary, I do charge my new 510 batts for 8 hours, use 20 min, charge 1 hour as the manufacturer recommends. Can't hurt, MAYBE can help?
Got a multimeter from DealExtreme and will do some 510 battery tests when I get around to it (and I'm not great at getting around to it).
While I have my doubts that it is necessary, I do charge my new 510 batts for 8 hours, use 20 min, charge 1 hour as the manufacturer recommends. Can't hurt, MAYBE can help?
Got a multimeter from DealExtreme and will do some 510 battery tests when I get around to it (and I'm not great at getting around to it).
You are right rsngfrce, there will probably be perpetual discussions on this matter. Also following the initial charge proceedure can't hurt.
I have measured the battery voltage on my batteries and they do conform to the normal Li-Lion specs. When the voltage in the battery reaches the upper limit, usually around 4.0 volts the charge cycle terminates. When the low voltage limit is reached, somewhere around 3.45 volts, the battery shuts off. I have measured a low voltage at 3.49 but so far no lower. When the battery shuts off, the voltage reading will show 0 volts.
The comforting fact is that the protection circuit will prevent us from damaging the batteries by not following the proper charging practices. Kind of protects us from ourselves. The only damage we can cause is to allow the batteries to get too hot.
I plan on making one of the home brew batteries mentioned in the experimenters forum. I am waiting for my first battery failure so I can reuse the connectors.
Kevin
I have measured the battery voltage on my batteries and they do conform to the normal Li-Lion specs. When the voltage in the battery reaches the upper limit, usually around 4.0 volts the charge cycle terminates. When the low voltage limit is reached, somewhere around 3.45 volts, the battery shuts off. I have measured a low voltage at 3.49 but so far no lower. When the battery shuts off, the voltage reading will show 0 volts.
The comforting fact is that the protection circuit will prevent us from damaging the batteries by not following the proper charging practices. Kind of protects us from ourselves. The only damage we can cause is to allow the batteries to get too hot.
I plan on making one of the home brew batteries mentioned in the experimenters forum. I am waiting for my first battery failure so I can reuse the connectors.
Kevin
Yeah, I didn't first realize when testing a battery that the reason it was showing 0 volts was because the protection circuit had kicked in until you, I think, mentioned that somewhere else here...
A stupid question maybe, but why can the battery only use about .5v of it's capacity? It seems like a big waste to my inquiring mind... [EDIT]I think I'm confusing v and mAh here?[/EDIT]
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The reason is due to the fragile nature of the battery. Li-Lion and Li-Poly batteries become damaged when the voltage limit on either the high limit or the low limit are exceeded. There is a chemical reaction that causes oxidation of the plate material. That is why the protection circuit is there.
Kevin
Here's my take on battery break in.
These 510 bats seem to act about the same as every other Li-Ion powered device I have. They start out a little weak, build up to their full potential after about three full charge/discharge cycles and then slowly taper off as the battery ages. Conditioning them isn't a bad idea, but I really don't think it does much. Rather, I think it's more about psychology. People get a new Li-Ion powered device and they want to use it. They don't take the time to put a full charge on it (consciously or unconsciously) and that leads to the impression that the battery is weak. Doing the 8 hour/1 hour thing forces people to do about 1 1/2 full cycles on the battery before bringing it into full time use, basically speeding up the 3 cycle break in that they seem to need. Whatever the reality of the chemistry is, it can't hurt to do a traditional break in, even if it doesn't really do much except speed up the first few charge/discharge cycles.
But I've found that the bigger break in issue is with atomizers. In my experience, atomizers of all brands need a few days of moderate to heavy use before they hit their stride. They tend to be inconsistent, a little bad tasting and weak when they're new, but as they get used they seem to become smoother, more consistent and a lot better tasting.
Just my two cents.
These 510 bats seem to act about the same as every other Li-Ion powered device I have. They start out a little weak, build up to their full potential after about three full charge/discharge cycles and then slowly taper off as the battery ages. Conditioning them isn't a bad idea, but I really don't think it does much. Rather, I think it's more about psychology. People get a new Li-Ion powered device and they want to use it. They don't take the time to put a full charge on it (consciously or unconsciously) and that leads to the impression that the battery is weak. Doing the 8 hour/1 hour thing forces people to do about 1 1/2 full cycles on the battery before bringing it into full time use, basically speeding up the 3 cycle break in that they seem to need. Whatever the reality of the chemistry is, it can't hurt to do a traditional break in, even if it doesn't really do much except speed up the first few charge/discharge cycles.
But I've found that the bigger break in issue is with atomizers. In my experience, atomizers of all brands need a few days of moderate to heavy use before they hit their stride. They tend to be inconsistent, a little bad tasting and weak when they're new, but as they get used they seem to become smoother, more consistent and a lot better tasting.
Just my two cents.
Shadowdr,
Was it very hard to get the items out of the battery casing? As soon as I have one expire I plan to dismantle it. Have you tried to get the threaded end out of the casing yet?
Surf Monkey,
I agree with everything you said. The atomizer is our real issue. I have found them to be very inconsistant from one to the next. Cartridges and batteries we can reproduce or rebuild. The atomizer would be harder for us to get along without should our sources dry up. It will not hurt to follow the condition cycle on the batts.
Kevin
Was it very hard to get the items out of the battery casing? As soon as I have one expire I plan to dismantle it. Have you tried to get the threaded end out of the casing yet?
Surf Monkey,
I agree with everything you said. The atomizer is our real issue. I have found them to be very inconsistant from one to the next. Cartridges and batteries we can reproduce or rebuild. The atomizer would be harder for us to get along without should our sources dry up. It will not hurt to follow the condition cycle on the batts.
Kevin
The battery is on the end with the plastic cap, so it was easy enough but the wires to the threaded on broke off before it cam out far enough to get the button out. The threaded end was another story, it is not meant to come out easily and it did not. Once the glue broke free it came out OK but took a lot of force. That little piece above the batt is the center of the threaded end, it came out first. The batt is fine but the switch is bad where the tactile button had become loose from the other piece. No parts are reusable except the threaded end.
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