lets just say the cole/bishop amendment passes. lets just say the regs change significantly better in theory. brick and motars are already doomed. with all of these people stocking up they will not have any need to go to a brick and motor. i am sitting on 15 mods of various types. i also have several types of tanks with multiple of each. i also recently started DIY my own coils and done my juice for a long time now. i have 20 186550 LG brown batteries and new battery charger. i have kanthal wire, cotton, nic base. there really is no need for me to step into a brick and motar. also people stocking up for FDA regs are buying things on sale in larger quantities. i picked up on 20% and 30% sales online. brick and motars arent gonna make it very long.
brick and motars are doomed no mater what happens
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We who are stocking up are just a very small percentage of all the vapers. Many vapers don't even know what's going on.
This is very true. We, on ECF, make up a very small proportion of those who vape, and an even tinier proportion of those who smoke and may switch to vaping.
If the clock is "turned back" and the FDA is told to go pound sand, physical locations as well as online stores will do very well indeed.
I'm thinking probably not.
My reasoning, and this is all conjecture, is that the core vaping forum members are but a very small percentage of all vapers, and of that core only a small percentage are truly stocked for the long haul. I'm also guessing that most of those who are stocked up probably, for the most part, haven't bought from a B&M, other than an occasional item here and there, in quite awhile.
At least that's my theory.
My reasoning, and this is all conjecture, is that the core vaping forum members are but a very small percentage of all vapers, and of that core only a small percentage are truly stocked for the long haul. I'm also guessing that most of those who are stocked up probably, for the most part, haven't bought from a B&M, other than an occasional item here and there, in quite awhile.
At least that's my theory.
Yes ecf members are a small portion, recently the Mrs had lady friend over not a member who had no idea about possible regulations and mentioned a shop she frequents closed.
Non diy will be in trouble if reg happen in full along with many shops closing.
I agree with your theory. I have been vaping for almost 5 years and in all that time the only thing I have purchased face to face was my original cig-a-like kit and 1-5ml bottle of e-liquid at our local smoke shop. That little kit convinced me that this vaping thing was not a passing fad. It was in fact a miracle for me so I immediately went on-line in search for better, less expensive equipment. At this point I will be able to vape for the rest of my life with what I have stockpiled. I feel sure that we here on this forum are in the minority.
Even if the dooming regs are mostly struck down I am afraid the damage will have already been done to a lot of the B & M's of today though and that is just wrong on so many levels.
I'm an... er... enthusiast? I DIY, build, own more than 100 mods (all with appropriate batteries and backups), and more than 170 atomizers. I still shop at Brick and Mortars to support local community and stave off shopping itches... they might not thrive, but they are not doomed.
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it surprises me how many people have tunnel vision. they do not pay attention to what is going on around them. that probably explains why its taking so long for the r2besmokefree campaign to collect the necessary funds. its getting there but should allot more $$ by now. that's the problem with people in this country. they go around with their head in the sand and when it finally hits, they are like my god i had no idea this was going on. brain dead they cant do the research and think for themselves and have no idea what is going on till its too late
While I do have a few backups, and I do shop online, I have neither the budget, nor the available storage space to attempt stockpiling for what could be 30 years of continued vaping.
It's going to be a rough ride for B&Ms until things get sorted out, but if the market is still there, they will be too.
It's going to be a rough ride for B&Ms until things get sorted out, but if the market is still there, they will be too.
I believe that while the amendment and law suits might free up some of the gear we use since nicotine is arguably the only thing we use that is 'derived from tobacco' it remains the choke point.
Those of us that have stock piled and horded lifetime supplies won't be effected but are just a very small minority of even the ECF community let alone the vaping public at large.
Those of us that have stock piled and horded lifetime supplies won't be effected but are just a very small minority of even the ECF community let alone the vaping public at large.
I tend to agree with you. I'm on FB a lot, and it's sad that 'hand checks', announcements for cloud and trick contests, or a picture of a pretty girl in a bikini holding a mod, get more responses than advocacy posts, calls to action, or requests to contact legislators.
Regardless of the FDA walk in retail is a tough busness. I only visit a couple of vape shops and only rarely. The hardware that interest me never seems to be in stock plus I mix and I'm cheap. There is a vape social scene. People buy vape shop e liquid to be a part of the scene. Flavors are something else to talk about. I think what the vape shops are counting on is government rules that ecigs and liquid can only be purchased face to face, like tobacco. Then they have a reletive monopoly, which suits governments because then it's easier to tax. All the hardware we care about is made in China. I don't see those companies trying to comply with FDA regulations. The global market is growing. They may be better off concentrating on the places where they are allowed to sell.
The econmic fundamentals of vaping are grim for tobacco, governments and even the vape industry. I used to spend $3,000 a year smoking a carton a week. Ignoring stockpiling, I can have a quality vape for $100 a year. Right now I don't NEED to buy anything vape specific for years to come and getting to that situation only cost the same as a few months of smoking.
I haven't shopped at my local B&M for some time and they seem to be doing just fine without me. But I am afraid the FDA will deem them out of existence. I worked there for a short time (till health issues stopped it) and very few of the customers were hard core. And few if any were online shoppers.
FDA
FDA
Those stores that pander to a variety of lung addicts will stay around. A few Vape only shops may stay around depending on regulation outcomes. But let's face it there are probably 60 or 80 Vape shops near me. Most of them are overpriced, poorly run, poorly marketed establishments. Brick and mortar in all sectors face intense pressure. This part of the equation is in no way unique to vaping. Not being able to make e liquid is a death blow. They just won't survive without some sort of intervention by the courts or Cole Bishop. Most wouldn't survive long term anyway due to over saturation. Regs simply accelerate the inevitable for some.
I haven't purchased anything retail in years because the atmosphere is not to my liking and the prices are ridiculous. No one I have run into that vapes is really informed. Sad! They will pay $30 for a bottle of Five Pawns. Or $150 for a setup that costs $80. But try to get these same people to donate $20 to advocacy. Not happening. That is problem number one. Problem number two is all the different organizations. They must consolidate! Safata, Casaa, r2bsf, and whatever I can't think of right now need to join forces and money.
I haven't purchased anything retail in years because the atmosphere is not to my liking and the prices are ridiculous. No one I have run into that vapes is really informed. Sad! They will pay $30 for a bottle of Five Pawns. Or $150 for a setup that costs $80. But try to get these same people to donate $20 to advocacy. Not happening. That is problem number one. Problem number two is all the different organizations. They must consolidate! Safata, Casaa, r2bsf, and whatever I can't think of right now need to join forces and money.
Whatever happens with B&M's, the uninformed, the optimistic & the unprepared are gonna be spending alot more money to vape, if at all. Fortunately, I won't be one of them...
R2BSmokefree IS a coalition between most advocacy organizations.
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Actually, nicotine is the only vulnerable part of vaping in the overall. Everything else is a staple of other non-regulated products. Stocking up on nicotine is the only necessity to be able to vape. I have been vaping since 2009 and began to see where big tobacco was not going to sit still and take the beating and let Ecig take off, but there is also big pharma who filed objections with FDA and FTC that ecigs were falsely claiming to be a smoke cessation product without being regulated. This is Econ-political and no amount of fighting it will stave off regulation.
But a bright spot is the coming on line more and more in the form of weed buds and/or oils. Plus some one is going to quickly figure out how to get the favorite street drug adapted to vaping. If weed takes hold vaping is here to stay. Just stock up on nicotine if you feel doom coming.
But a bright spot is the coming on line more and more in the form of weed buds and/or oils. Plus some one is going to quickly figure out how to get the favorite street drug adapted to vaping. If weed takes hold vaping is here to stay. Just stock up on nicotine if you feel doom coming.
IMO some shops will do well, and some will fold. It all depends on their ability to change marketing strategies when needed.
Even with favorable admendments, retail vaping will change. Shops can't import without registering as manufacturers for each of the thousands of products they want to sell, which some shops might do but eventually they will need pmta's. It's going to lead to a handful of distributors, middle men jacking prices skyward. The cost of vaping could end up on par with smoking or more.
I've introduced a handful of people to vaping, explained the urgency of coming regulations and even the most computer savy feel more comfortable using a b&m vs online. None have signed up with ecf for more info. Vaping is very confusing for someone just starting out. I think the gag orders on demonstrations for retail shops is one of the worst hits of all.
I think some shops will survive but will look much different. Similar hardware, more expensive, more price fixing, less profit and less knowledge. Some stores might carry under the counter or back room products as a courtesy to help vapers. I think private trading forums online might flourish under the radar. But b&m's that adapt will survive and we'll see more corporate style of business. The push to legalize another substance might help with the availability of hardware.
I think we'll see more challenges to online sales from states as vaping is now considered "tobacco" and they'll want to regulate, tax it the same as cigs which could be a minor technical change not up to a vote.
One thing I think is clear is that this is the sunset of the golden age of vaping without dramatic changes or a very clever black market network. [emoji24]
I'm finding it tough to pony up the funds for a lifetime of vaping needs. I think that's common even among those aware. I find I'm addicted to vape mail and I find it tough to imagine staying with the same thing forever. I like switching things around, up and down. I don't know how that's going to play out but I know having a b&m will be essential. I hope stores understand that.
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I've introduced a handful of people to vaping, explained the urgency of coming regulations and even the most computer savy feel more comfortable using a b&m vs online. None have signed up with ecf for more info. Vaping is very confusing for someone just starting out. I think the gag orders on demonstrations for retail shops is one of the worst hits of all.
I think some shops will survive but will look much different. Similar hardware, more expensive, more price fixing, less profit and less knowledge. Some stores might carry under the counter or back room products as a courtesy to help vapers. I think private trading forums online might flourish under the radar. But b&m's that adapt will survive and we'll see more corporate style of business. The push to legalize another substance might help with the availability of hardware.
I think we'll see more challenges to online sales from states as vaping is now considered "tobacco" and they'll want to regulate, tax it the same as cigs which could be a minor technical change not up to a vote.
One thing I think is clear is that this is the sunset of the golden age of vaping without dramatic changes or a very clever black market network. [emoji24]
I'm finding it tough to pony up the funds for a lifetime of vaping needs. I think that's common even among those aware. I find I'm addicted to vape mail and I find it tough to imagine staying with the same thing forever. I like switching things around, up and down. I don't know how that's going to play out but I know having a b&m will be essential. I hope stores understand that.
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