Bunch of general questions

Status
Not open for further replies.

suprtrkr

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jun 22, 2014
10,410
15,049
Cowtown, USA. Where the West begins.
Ok, @theddead gave you the tutorial on thicker versus thinner wire. What you need now is a coil calculator. There's a really good one at Steam Engine. Put in your target resistance and your wire gauge and the size of the mandrel you want to wrap it on, and it will estimate number of wraps for you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: theddead

theddead

running with scissors since 1970
ECF Veteran
Aug 11, 2014
559
799
55
Minneapolis, Minnesota
There are too many variables to guess.
But if i plug some info into my app. ....
28 ga, 7 wraps. On a funhattan (4.2 volts fully charged) 0.4 ohms.
That is...... pushing it? 10.5 amps.
But your batteries look worn.
If the wrapper on the batteries comes off and the battery wall touches the side of your mod. It will fire and continue to fire until the battery vents or pops.
(Remember the pictures?)
Stay above 0.5?
At least until you got time under your belt.
For videos try grimm green, madvapes....
Just search coil building for beginners.
Ask the guys at your shop to teach you?
Heck, ask for a job!
 

Turtlesonbeach

Full Member
Jul 30, 2015
54
21
32
My god. ...
If i say something stupid someone beat me down ok?
Turtle,
For the love of God. ....
Please be careful.
Lol really it's less than .5 you think ohhhh .... what if it's 30g wire? Haha I've been using it for a month no problem but I'm being oh so careful. How do you know the amps of the battery ?
 

suprtrkr

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jun 22, 2014
10,410
15,049
Cowtown, USA. Where the West begins.
@ @theddead no stupid anywhere around that.
@ @Turtlesonbeach It's really hard to know the amps of the battery (your red one) because we're not sure what actual battery you have. That's what we meant about re-wraps, and why you should buy good batteries from a reputable supplier. That way you *know* what amps your battery will take, and this is backed up by independent testing, not just some advertising claim on the label. The best I can do for you right now, with what you have, is to say the red battery is *probably* a 20 amp battery, and .42 for 10.5 amps is pushing it, but only just a little. Really, theddead told you. Try for .5 and stay there until you have some more experience under your belt. You get six months in, you can reliably build a coil and it ohms out where you were aiming, you manage to routinely install them with no problems, fine *then* you push it if you want to. Before then, be careful. Please.
 
  • Like
Reactions: theddead

theddead

running with scissors since 1970
ECF Veteran
Aug 11, 2014
559
799
55
Minneapolis, Minnesota
It might say on the side.
E fest batteries say that they are 35 amp.
They are not. They are 20 amp.
My lg he4 batteries are 20.
Efest buys other companies rejected units puts their label on and sells them.
But just because a battery can do 20 amp does NOT mean we should do it.
Like do many have said,
You can get a fantastic vape with a1.5 coil.
Dig?
 

theddead

running with scissors since 1970
ECF Veteran
Aug 11, 2014
559
799
55
Minneapolis, Minnesota
@ @theddead no stupid anywhere around that.
@ @Turtlesonbeach It's really hard to know the amps of the battery (your red one) because we're not sure what actual battery you have. That's what we meant about re-wraps, and why you should buy good batteries from a reputable supplier. That way you *know* what amps your battery will take, and this is backed up by independent testing, not just some advertising claim on the label. The best I can do for you right now, with what you have, is to say the red battery is *probably* a 20 amp battery, and .42 for 10.5 amps is pushing it, but only just a little. Really, theddead told you. Try for .5 and stay there until you have some more experience under your belt. You get six months in, you can reliably build a coil and it ohms out where you were aiming, you manage to routinely install them with no problems, fine *then* you push it if you want to. Before then, be careful. Please.

Listen to the man.
 

Turtlesonbeach

Full Member
Jul 30, 2015
54
21
32
@ @theddead no stupid anywhere around that.
@ @Turtlesonbeach It's really hard to know the amps of the battery (your red one) because we're not sure what actual battery you have. That's what we meant about re-wraps, and why you should buy good batteries from a reputable supplier. That way you *know* what amps your battery will take, and this is backed up by independent testing, not just some advertising claim on the label. The best I can do for you right now, with what you have, is to say the red battery is *probably* a 20 amp battery, and .42 for 10.5 amps is pushing it, but only just a little. Really, theddead told you. Try for .5 and stay there until you have some more experience under your belt. You get six months in, you can reliably build a coil and it ohms out where you were aiming, you manage to routinely install them with no problems, fine *then* you push it if you want to. Before then, be careful. Please.
Ok just ordered 2 vtc4 batteries. What would be a safe ohm to run with those batteries? I'm buying an ohm reader as well as 28 and 30g wire. So the ohm directly relates
To the amps of the battery? What about volts? And mah just means battery life correct?
 

suprtrkr

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jun 22, 2014
10,410
15,049
Cowtown, USA. Where the West begins.
Ok just ordered 2 vtc4 batteries. What would be a safe ohm to run with those batteries? I'm buying an ohm reader as well as 28 and 30g wire. So the ohm directly relates
To the amps of the battery? What about volts? And mah just means battery life correct?
Ohms, Amps and Volts are interrelated in a complex dance called Ohm's Law. If you change any one of them, the others adjust to compensate. The thing about mechs-- where they differ from regulated mods-- is the voltage is semi-fixed. You always get whatever voltage the battery is supplying at that instant. Now, that voltage varies a bit, depending on the charge state of the battery. At full charge, it will be 4.2 volts on a new battery. By the time it discharges down to "too weak to vape," it will be in the 3.5 volt range. A regulated mod is different from this. It doesn't care what voltage the battery is supplying because it has internal circuitry that takes the battery voltage and increases or reduces it to produce the set watts in accordance with the atomizer resistance. But a mech can't do that. Voltage is what the battery gives you and it can't be changed. So yes, to answer your question, Ohms directly relates to the battery amps on a mech mod. This is not completely true, or rather more complex, on a regulated mod. The VTC4s are 20 amp batteries that can be safely run to 30 amps without danger of a catastrophe-- that's why I like them in mechs-- but doing this damages the battery and reduces it's capacity and its life. VTC4s are, and should be treated like, 20 amp batteries. Now, as to how much amps they will tolerate... that depends on the safety factor you like. I personally like 50%; that is, don't ask a 20 amp battery for more than 10 amps. That's the rule I use on my mechs with VTC4s. At full charge 4.2 volts, this 10 amp maximum works out to be .42 Ohms. However-- yes, another caution, sorry-- ohm meters are not perfectly accurate and batteries are not either. I wouldn't try to build out to .42 Ohms. As I have told you above, .5 Ohms is a good place to shoot for. That way, if you undershoot a bit, or your ohm meter is off a few hundredths of an ohm, you're still safe. If you try for a .5 coil, and it works out to be .48, you know that's still within safe limits and you can use it instead of trashing it and starting over. MAh does, in fact, indicate battery life. The more, the longer the battery will last. However, while it isn't important for building and has no safety impact, you should be aware in practice the trade-off for high current is low capacity. That is, a 20 amp battery will have fewer mAh than a 15 amp battery; and a 30 amp battery will have fewer than a 20 amp. The VTC4s you just bought are 20 amp batteries with 2100 mAh. The LG HB6 batteries are honest 30 amp batteries, but they only hold 1500 mAh, which is why vapers don't use them much.
 
Last edited:

Turtlesonbeach

Full Member
Jul 30, 2015
54
21
32
Ohms, Amps and Volts are interrelated in a complex dance called Ohm's Law. If you change any one of them, the others adjust to compensate. The thing about mechs-- where they differ from regulated mods-- is the voltage is semi-fixed. You always get whatever voltage the battery is supplying at that instant. Now, that voltage varies a bit, depending on the charge state of the battery. At full charge, it will be 4.2 volts on a new battery. By the time it discharges down to "too weak to vape," it will be in the 3.5 volt range. A regulated mod is different from this. It doesn't care what voltage the battery is supplying because it has internal circuitry that takes the battery voltage and increases or reduces it to produce the set watts in accordance with the atomizer resistance. But a mech can't do that. Voltage is what the battery gives you and it can't be changed. So yes, to answer your question, Ohms directly relates to the battery amps on a mech mod. This is not completely true, or rather more complex, on a regulated mod. The VTC4s are 20 amp batteries that can be safely run to 30 amps without danger of a catastrophe-- that's why I like them in mechs-- but doing this damages the battery and reduces it's capacity and its life. VTC4s are, and should be treated like, 20 amp batteries. Now, as to how much amps they will tolerate... that depends on the safety factor you like. I personally like 50%; that is, don't ask a 20 amp battery for more than 10 amps. That's the rule I use on my mechs with VTC4s. At full charge 4.2 volts, this 10 amp maximum works out to be .42 Ohms. However-- yes, another caution, sorry-- ohm meters are not perfectly accurate and batteries are not either. I wouldn't try to build out to .42 Ohms. As I have told you above, .5 Ohms is a good place to shoot for. That way, if you undershoot a bit, or your ohm meter is off a few tenths of an ohm, you're still safe. If you try for a .5 coil, and it works out to be .48, you know that's still within safe limits and you can use it instead of trashing it and starting over. MAh does, in fact, indicate battery life. The more, the longer the battery will last. However, while it isn't important for building and has no safety impact, you should be aware in practice the trade-off for high current is low capacity. That is, a 20 amp battery will have fewer mAh than a 15 amp battery; and a 30 amp battery will have fewer than a 20 amp. The VTC4s you just bought are 20 amp batteries with 2100 mAh. The LG HB6 batteries are honest 30 amp batteries, but they only hold 1500 mAh, which is why vapers don't use them much.
So when it comes to the ohms law app for the voltage of those battery's I put 4.2? And for the current that's the amps it's drawing so mine would be 10 or 20 with those batteries? Lol sorry still a little confused. When building a new coil is more wraps gonna cause higher ohm or would less wraps do that? And adding a second coil to my build would lower or raise ohms? Sorry your doint a really good job explaining it's just so new to me it's hard
To grasp but I appreciate it.

What is the difference between a .42 build a .5 build and day a .7 build
 

suprtrkr

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jun 22, 2014
10,410
15,049
Cowtown, USA. Where the West begins.
Yes to voltage. 4.2 is the maximum they make at full charge. And yes to amps. 20 is their maximum safety rating, and I think 10 is where you should shoot for as it gives you a 50% safety margin off of their maximum amps. When building a coil, more wraps causes higher ohms, other things being equal. The wire has a certain resistance per length. More wraps uses more wire, so more resistance. Adding a second coil lowers the resistance; it cuts it in half to be exact. if you want a dual coil build to equal .5 ohms total, you need two 1 ohm coils. Essentially, the difference between the 3 builds is a higher ohm rating, and this also lowers the amps drawn from the battery. Using the calculator, at 4.2 volts, .42 draws 10 amps; .5 draws 8.4 amps and .7 draws 6 amps. I talked to you a little about other concerns besides safety yesterday. FWIW, on a mech, I like a build in the .6-.7 range. I get good flavor and pretty good cloud there. My Dark Horse is build .67 right now, and it kicks .....
 

Turtlesonbeach

Full Member
Jul 30, 2015
54
21
32
Awesome t
Yes to voltage. 4.2 is the maximum they make at full charge. And yes to amps. 20 is their maximum safety rating, and I think 10 is where you should shoot for as it gives you a 50% safety margin off of their maximum amps. When building a coil, more wraps causes higher ohms, other things being equal. The wire has a certain resistance per length. More wraps uses more wire, so more resistance. Adding a second coil lowers the resistance; it cuts it in half to be exact. if you want a dual coil build to equal .5 ohms total, you need two 1 ohm coils. Essentially, the difference between the 3 builds is a higher ohm rating, and this also lowers the amps drawn from the battery. Using the calculator, at 4.2 volts, .42 draws 10 amps; .5 draws 8.4 amps and .7 draws 6 amps. I talked to you a little about other concerns besides safety yesterday. FWIW, on a mech, I like a build in the .6-.7 range. I get good flavor and pretty good cloud there. My Dark Horse is build .67 right now, and it kicks .....[/QUOTE

Awesome thank you your Input helped me a ton. I will be doing some of my own builds next week and will have an ohm reader by then. I will post pictures of my builds on this thread and also figure out ohms of my current set up and ones I'll soon be building
 

NOVA jon

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Aug 28, 2014
1,124
2,243
61
Northern virginia
Supr is really laying it all out there in simple terms for you, I wish I had the time to respond to folks like that!! Thanks suprtrkr!!

The Steam Engine deal is very helpful. It will give you the ability to drop in different values to see how they "play" together!

It's great that you have a lot of questions, I was living vicariously thru this forum before I had the gumption to join! Lots of helpful people that are more than happy to sure their wisdom. Just remember there are no stupid questions!
 
  • Like
Reactions: suprtrkr

Turtlesonbeach

Full Member
Jul 30, 2015
54
21
32
Awesome thanks a lot man and I'm getting it slowly! Your the man for sticking with me! So I'll be getting a new rda to practice builds on I got an ohm reader also on it's way. I will post pics of my new builds and the ohms it reads at when I check it and check back in for advice before I try it out for sure. I'll also find out what my current build is at for ohms cause I know your all wondering ;)
 

theddead

running with scissors since 1970
ECF Veteran
Aug 11, 2014
559
799
55
Minneapolis, Minnesota
You're getting it, dude, I know you are. Not to worry, I'm gonna stay with you until you feel comfortable about it.

I really like how you are explaining things.
To be honest I am far more comfortable with you holding class.
I know what I am doing, but you are far better at explaining.
Gives me peace of mind.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NOVA jon

suprtrkr

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jun 22, 2014
10,410
15,049
Cowtown, USA. Where the West begins.
Awesome thanks a lot man and I'm getting it slowly! Your the man for sticking with me! So I'll be getting a new rda to practice builds on I got an ohm reader also on it's way. I will post pics of my new builds and the ohms it reads at when I check it and check back in for advice before I try it out for sure. I'll also find out what my current build is at for ohms cause I know your all wondering ;)
Excellent! That's the ticket. I'm heading for the rack tonite, or fairly soon. You dream up more questions, and we'll have another smack at it tomorrow.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread