Buying and Using an Electronic Cigarette: A Primer

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Kent C

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Kent, that's a lot of information, but I think it is valid and important.

I was trying to keep this as short and simple as possible.
But there are some good points I will work into my post later.

Thanks. I thought it was one area that needed more info, as it is the one subject that has caused the most frustration for those new to ecigs. All your other points are concise and thoroughly 'stickyable' imo. I'd vote sticky.

I may try an edit myself and send it to you.
 

Jim Davis

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Kent C

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Kent C

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Kent C

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OK - We have a difference of opinion, and we can hash this back and forth till the cows come home.

If Deadcat is happy with his post - OK. If you would like to put together another post on the items you think are left out & important, by all means, make it up. And in all fairness to you, we can leave it to another person to review & stick. I have my opinions, but I like to think I'm fair also.

Put a post together, or use/edit the one you posted for deadcat, and we can get a neutral party to do the rest. Furthermore, if you think our discussion will harm the meaning or point of your informational post, I'm more than happy to delete our discussion, so you can post yours fresh.

Jim,

From my post above, I think this is the most important part as far as informing the new member on the difference between auto and manual.

Cut and paste with the additional 'both' comment:

=====

Manual or Automatic battery


Manual batteries require you to push a button to activate the battery.
Automatic batteries are activated by sound or the act of drawing on the ecigarette.

Automatic Batteries:

You have liquid in the cartridge. In order for the liquid to become vapor, it has to be vaporized. For that to happen the atomizer must heat to the point of vaporizing the liquid. Auto batteries are activated by drawing on the ecig or producing noise of drawing. The sequence is:

1. draw
2. battery activates
3. atomizer begins to heat up
4. the atomizer continues to heat up
5. the liquid is vaporized
6. you inhale

From 1 to 3 the liquid is still in liquid form. From 3 to 4 _some of the liquid_ in the area of the atomizer is still in liquid form. From 1 to 4 the mouth piece is acting like a straw and you can get liquid in your mouth.

One workaround is to take what's called a 'primer puff' - where you make the noise of drawing to start the battery but do not continue to draw. You then wait for the atomizer to atomize the liquid and then draw. Another work around is to start to draw but not very hard - because you'll get juice in your mouth - this sometimes starts the battery and sometimes it doesn't. If it does, if you then increase the amount of draw pressure and draw slowly like drinking a thick shake through a straw. But this prolonged drag can also take time to where you may run into the auto battery's 'cutoff' where the atomizer shuts off. Sometimes a 'waiting period' to where you can't start the cycle again, because the auto battery is still in the 'cutoff mode'. Iow, the battery controls you at that point.


Manual Batteries:

With manual batteries, you have to push a small button in order to start the above 1-6 sequence.

Here, the only part of this that is not part of the smoking experience is pushing the button. When you push the button before drawing, numbers 2 through 5 above occur before you take a draw. When you do draw, you draw vapor not juice, and this is very much more like taking a drag on a cigarette.

And, most people say that using the button in this manner becomes second nature in less than a day.

Some models are available with both the auto and manual batteries.
====

Regards....
 

Ez Duzit

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Jim,

From my post above, I think this is the most important part as far as informing the new member on the difference between auto and manual.

Cut and paste with the additional 'both' comment:

=====

Manual or Automatic battery


Manual batteries require you to push a button to activate the battery.
Automatic batteries are activated by sound or the act of drawing on the ecigarette.

Automatic Batteries:

You have liquid in the cartridge. In order for the liquid to become vapor, it has to be vaporized. For that to happen the atomizer must heat to the point of vaporizing the liquid. Auto batteries are activated by drawing on the ecig or producing noise of drawing. The sequence is:

1. draw
2. battery activates
3. atomizer begins to heat up
4. the atomizer continues to heat up
5. the liquid is vaporized
6. you inhale

From 1 to 3 the liquid is still in liquid form. From 3 to 4 _some of the liquid_ in the area of the atomizer is still in liquid form. From 1 to 4 the mouth piece is acting like a straw and you can get liquid in your mouth.

One workaround is to take what's called a 'primer puff' - where you make the noise of drawing to start the battery but do not continue to draw. You then wait for the atomizer to atomize the liquid and then draw. Another work around is to start to draw but not very hard - because you'll get juice in your mouth - this sometimes starts the battery and sometimes it doesn't. If it does, if you then increase the amount of draw pressure and draw slowly like drinking a thick shake through a straw. But this prolonged drag can also take time to where you may run into the auto battery's 'cutoff' where the atomizer shuts off. Sometimes a 'waiting period' to where you can't start the cycle again, because the auto battery is still in the 'cutoff mode'. Iow, the battery controls you at that point.


Manual Batteries:

With manual batteries, you have to push a small button in order to start the above 1-6 sequence.

Here, the only part of this that is not part of the smoking experience is pushing the button. When you push the button before drawing, numbers 2 through 5 above occur before you take a draw. When you do draw, you draw vapor not juice, and this is very much more like taking a drag on a cigarette.

And, most people say that using the button in this manner becomes second nature in less than a day.

Some models are available with both the auto and manual batteries.
====

Regards....

Kent this isn't any kind of slam, because anything that will help new people is good. And I appreciate the time you took with this guide, but...

It's a bit misleading.
Your description of the automatic batteries is actually pretty biased. You make it sound like a certainty, that buying an automatic unit will doom you with these problems, no exceptions, and that is very far from the truth.
I have a 401 automatic and have none of the problems you mentioned. While the potential for any of those things is there when you buy an automatic, carefully choosing the correct model will minimize or eliminate most, if not all of them.
Yes some units have a 3 or 4 second cutoff. But some models, like the 401 for example, actually have a 7 second cutoff. That is enough that most people will never actually cause it to engage. Certain models though, like the Red Dragon 2 piece unit, do have a shorter cutoff time. So by doing some research before buying, you can minimize the potential for this kind of problem.

You also make it sound like people need a degree just to take a hit from an automatic. And that they are almost guaranteed to get juice in the mouth. So, let me ask. Does using a manual battery guarantee that I won't ever get juice in my mouth?

As for the battery sometimes starting, and sometimes not starting when you take a draw. C'mon!! I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but much more so with a cheap unit, or an older model. Yes, occasionally someone will post about a new unit that has that problem. But considering how many units are sold, it's a small percentage. As e-cigs progress, quality is constantly improving, and I would have to say, this is another thing that is the exception, not the norm. Sometimes the auto batteries do stick, and that is usually cured with a few light taps on the desk. Also this a good spot to again ask something about manual batteries. Do they, (manual units), ever come with defective batteries?

My point is, you magnified everything regarding the automatic battery. But with the manual battery, you basically said, just push the button and vape.

People reading this, and trying to make a decision to buy, will categorize automatics as bad, and manual batteries as good, because that's the way you have painted the picture. The truth is, there are some pretty good automatic units to be had.

Like I said up top, please don't take my post the wrong way. But if I read this before I purchased my 401, I might not have bought it, and that would have been a mistake!


Ez
 
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mcl5000

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I disagree with you EZ. I'm not sure what you mean by "cheap model" but I'd say I have a 50% chance of getting juice in my mouth with my auto 901 batteries compared to the 5% chance with my 901 manual or 510 manual. I'm talking about right after a fill up for drip, not half way through the cart. No juice either way in this case.

Also, I'm pretty sure 901s have a 7 or 8 second cutoff, and I reach it more often than not.

One more thing. You say that it's rare that auto batteries don't start when you take a draw. No it's not. Again, I don't believe new 901 batteries qualify as a cheap or old unit, but it certainly happens. Like you said, it isn't often, but sometimes you need to draw harder than others. Most people don't complain about this because it's very minor, but it's just another advantage of manuals.

I thought the auto 901 was great until I got manual batteries for it. It's such a huge difference that it's really not even comparable. The ONLY thing that auto has going for it is that you can leave it in your mouth for a full drag without using any hands.

Combine that with some auto batteries (no, not only "cheap" ones) sometimes randomly firing up the atomizer when sitting on your desk or driving with the window down, I think that manual is the clear way to go, especially for a beginner. The more frustrations you encounter in the beginning, the more likely you are to go back to analogs.


edit: Deadcat, I think it might be beneficial to put something along the lines of "most people take a much longer drag on an e-cig than they would on an analog" in the auto battery section. When I was first trying to figure out what PV to get, I brushed off the auto cutoff, because I hit an analog for only a second or 2 most of the time.
 
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Kent C

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Kent this isn't any kind of slam, because anything that will help new people is good. And I appreciate the time you took with this guide, but...

It's a bit misleading.

:) Ok. Ez, you think you're 'piling on' when I'm standing in the end zone on this issue, even though the scoreboard has been turned off... and rightly so, imo. The longer narrative on autos vs. manuals is necessary because of the nature of what happens with the autos and the fact that you have figured it out to where you got one working, says nothing about the multitude of people that report otherwise every day. I don't usually continue to argue a winning point, but I will if you're willing. Part of the reason Jim deleted the above posts was to stop the back and forth on the issue and as far as I'm concerned he can delete these too as long as he deletes both.

I can link to a number of posts that prove my point beyond a reasonable doubt. Here's just a sampling... I can list them all if you're interested... or you can PM me and help Jim keep this off the board. You're choice. And yeah, there are some 'manual problem' posts as well but they don't come close to the amount of these or the number of posts where people have said basically 'I quit smoking the day my 510 arrived'. There's a dozen of them in the last 5 days! lol.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...1-what-heck-am-i-doing-wrong-juice-mouth.html

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...26753-i-just-got-ripped-off-buying-e-cig.html

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/new-members-forum/4791-got-suckered-smoking-everywhere.html

"I JUST KNOW I DON'T WANT TO FORK OUT ANOTHER DIME TO THIS RIP-OFF COMPANY!!!"

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-my-m-401-little-dissapointed.html#post461020

"Not enough vapor or smoke. Sometimes you get a nice hit, often not."

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...gs-what-should-i-replace-them.html#post444553
 

tffny

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I have spent 24 hours the last two days researching e-cig...whew. I found your information very helpful and straightforward. Thanks.

Also, I am confused by the number types of e-cigs. Are all DSE901's from the same manufacturer (not the company brand)? I am trying to do research on the more common brands that are marketed and who the manufacture is (for example; greensmoke, epuff, smoke51 are all manufactured by Loong Totem). I am researching this because I would like to market my own brand, but by a reliable AND with the latest and general consensus using the best technology. Thanks for any help.

Of course the FDA/Tobacco issues do have me worried at the moment.

Tif
 

Empyreana

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Yes, THANK-YOU, one and all for the effort put into informing people re vaping.

I really can't believe how much I am enjoying it over smoking cigarettes. Can't wait for my order for the DYI kit along w/flavors. Winters here are cold, wet and pretty miserable. Smoking cigarettes in the middle of a 140 mile gale is ... interesting. If you try to wait the storm out and are on day 2 or 3 its even more ... interesting. Vaping indoors this winter. YEAH!

I was looking over my order for the DYI kit and it just says that I paid through paypal to dawnsings. I know I have seen the site recommended here. Sorry I can't say who it was, yet, but I will let people know how it goes when the kit arrives and how easy it was for a newbie.

The DYI section here is great.
 

Ez Duzit

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Yes, THANK-YOU, one and all for the effort put into informing people re vaping.

I really can't believe how much I am enjoying it over smoking cigarettes. Can't wait for my order for the DYI kit along w/flavors. Winters here are cold, wet and pretty miserable. Smoking cigarettes in the middle of a 140 mile gale is ... interesting. If you try to wait the storm out and are on day 2 or 3 its even more ... interesting. Vaping indoors this winter. YEAH!

I was looking over my order for the DYI kit and it just says that I paid through paypal to dawnsings. I know I have seen the site recommended here. Sorry I can't say who it was, yet, but I will let people know how it goes when the kit arrives and how easy it was for a newbie.

The DYI section here is great.

Was that the DIY kit from ecigsmokestore?
 

Kent C

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Empyreana

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Yes, that's it! She says she is backlogged and it could be up to 10 days before getting the order. Everything that I have seen here says that it is worth the wait so I am not worried.

I have a 901 from Amazon, and a 510 from Rocky Mountain Vapor. W/the Rocky Mountain Vapor order I also purchased 50mls of blended ejuice @18mgs and 10mls of mint ejuice @24mgs. Mixed them together w/50% VG. Smooth taste, nice throat hit, lots of vapor. Also purchased a passthrough. I hook it up to my Black and Decker Power to Go and can take it anywhere if I don't want/can't take the laptop w/me. Going camping/hunting first of Oct. taking this w/me.

In looking around for good prices I came across another vaping forum where there was mega concern for microbes growing in the juice. Haven't read much about that here. Only one thread that basically said, I seem to recall, vaping it or the nicotine is going to kill anything that might grow? Did I get the gist of that correct?
 
I feel this post is a great start! I just ordered my first e-cig today! I am very excited to get it here! I went through 2 companys because I have seen alot of video and read alot of information on the 2, so I will get to decide which one I prefer.

I am new to the forum but so far I have gotten alot of quality information! I will be sure to continue to coming to the forums for the latest news, and user info often!
 

Joe81

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u should also mention ppl should not remove the wick material from the mesh, many ppl might mistake it for loose filler material...i just ruined my new 510 copper atty by mistake doing that :( what a great way to start my first week of vaping, now i got only 1 atty! well actually, the ruined atty might still work a bit...i cleaned it & waiting for it to dry off...
 
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jimindenver

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I'm new here and wanted to say hello as well as thank you for all of the effort to provide newbies like me with the info needed to get started.

I am concerned with the FDA issues, I've been down this road before.

I used Favor cigarettes in the early 80's and had even stopped smoking for a few weeks before they were pulled. I can tell the FDA that I don't really think a pack a day for the next 25 years was better for me. :nah:

I haven't ordered online yet as every thing is a bit overwhelming. I am hoping that a local shop will be open on the holiday and I retain enough info from here to pick from what they have just to get started. Even if it is just a pack of Kraves so I don't reek when my family visits next week.

Thanks for the info and wish me luck.

Jim
 

Ez Duzit

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I'm new here and wanted to say hello as well as thank you for all of the effort to provide newbies like me with the info needed to get started.

I am concerned with the FDA issues, I've been down this road before.

I used Favor cigarettes in the early 80's and had even stopped smoking for a few weeks before they were pulled. I can tell the FDA that I don't really think a pack a day for the next 25 years was better for me.

I haven't ordered online yet as every thing is a bit overwhelming. I am hoping that a local shop will be open on the holiday and I retain enough info from here to pick from what they have just to get started. Even if it is just a pack of Kraves so I don't reek when my family visits next week.

Thanks for the info and wish me luck.

Jim



Don't get any retail e-cigs. They are hugely over priced. Do yourself a favor and order from one of the many online vendors that you see people having good experiences with on this forum. Online you will typically get a better quality unit, for a much better price, and usually you will get your order in only a few days. Do some reading in the forum and choose which model you want. Then do as much reading on that particular model as you can. That way you have no surprises when you receive your first e-cig and your first experience will be a good one. There is plenty of info on this forum on any model out there. If you can't find what you want by just scanning different sections of the forum, you can use the search tool.
Take the leap, you won't regret it.


Ez
 
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