California Vaping Ban

[bombastinator]

I read the article that was linked yesterday about the tobacco bonds. My eyes were crossed by the end of it and I still don't understand much. There were some bizarre numbers in there. Like States getting 300M up front and paying back 14B. And bondholders getting 1.8C on the dollar. One hedge fund running most of the bonds. Interest rates close to 10%. Bond buyers taking the fall instead of States if smoking rates dropped, but States having to refinance on even worse terms. Way beyond my ability to understand.

What candidate is the democratic candidate? It surely isn't the republican candidate or the democrat candidate. There are the democratic socialists. Is that the democratic candidates you speak of?

that is a question the democrats are so far successfully trying to avoid answering. It was a very successful strategy for the republicans in 2016. You perhaps remember what was referred to as the republican clown car? The guy that won the election did it because he entered at the last possible second and was therefore able to avoid answering a bunch of really pertinent questions about is behavior and character until it was too late. Some of them are still being asked.

My personal suspicion is that none of the “candidates” from either party currently “running” will even be on the ballot. They’re nothing but a picket line. That includes Trump. Everyone claiming to be running for the presidency in 2020 isn’t yet. They’re running for the candidacy of their party. Nothing actually gets determined until the party caucuses.

I think there’s a decent chance that Trump is the GOP’s Beast Rabban.

There’s a 1965 science fiction book called “Dune” where the main antagonist chooses to put a deliberately bad executive in power because while he will infuriate the people he can do horrible things to the advantage of the antagonist. Then later when anger is at its height he will replace him with a younger better looking one who will remove some, but not even most, and definitely not the most profitable of the nastiness the first executive installed and therefore be loved. The antagonist gets to put down horrible things but only pay for the results of them for a short time.

In this scenario Trump is beast rabban and whoever they put in the candidacy is “beautiful” Feyed Rutha. It’s the GOP that is always really in charge though, and it’s always their interests being advanced.

In looking for who feyed Rutha might be I’m eyeing people who are dropping out of the Trump administration or other higher government offices towards the end. Can you honestly see Ted Cruz not trying to make a play for the presidency? He has shown through past behavior that he has unlimited ambition and no compunctions whatsoever. Ted Cruz leaving government doesn’t say “I can’t stomach this” it says “I have higher goals in mind and I see a better opportunity”.

As to who the DFL is going to run I have no idea. They seem to have all their best candidates actually in the picket.

I’m much more afraid of the GOP than I am of Trump at this point. He’s just the one doing their work.

 

[englishmick]

My Official National Debt Reduction Plan ; Give everything west of the Rockies to China in exchange for Debt Relief, and everything north of the Potomac to Canada for the same purpose.
China would solve the Illegal Immigration and Homeless Issues that California has, and the people of Los Angeles, San Francisco and Seattle could officially become communist.
The Northeast would have their single payer Gub'ment Healthcare system, and the higher taxes they seem to vote for.
Trouble is... would China or Canada even want to go along with the idea ?

Did I ever mention my Climate Change Plan?

Here's the thing. All the stuff that matters in America happens on the coasts. Higher forms of thought, literature, innovation, software, rocket science, everything. Hardly anyone lives in the inland areas anyway. I know, I've flown over it on my way to California. And the people who do live inland, well I won't get into that now just in case any of them have figured out how to get on the internet.

So what we do is turn the inner parts of the country into a giant forest. All the trees would suck up any carbon produced in the productive coastal regions. Maybe we could use part of it to grow nicotine plants too.

 

[bombastinator]

Did I ever mention my Climate Change Plan?

Here's the thing. All the stuff that matters in America happens on the coasts. Higher forms of thought, literature, innovation, software, rocket science, everything. Hardly anyone lives in the inland areas anyway. I know, I've flown over it on my way to California. And the people who do live inland, well I won't get into that now just in case any of them have figured out how to get on the internet.

*waves cheerfully*

So what we do is turn the inner parts of the country into a giant forest. All the trees would suck up any carbon produced in the productive coastal regions. Maybe we could use part of it to grow nicotine plants too.

That’s what it used to be before North America was colonized. It’s mostly used to grow food at the moment. Corn, wheat, soybeans, sunflowers, potatoes, etc.. For that to work there would have to be much less need for food in the world (which may well happen the way things are going :/)

People still lived there though. People don’t actually take up a lot of space. It’s their support structures that do.

 

[AttyPops]

I read today that Trump received half million dollars in campaign money from Big tobacco. His former health director bought interrests in BT while publically calling for less smoking. Former cabinent members are currently working for BP, BT, or Juul. They are all corrupt.

Complicit in a "Smoke free future". Needs BT's help, since cigs are still legal. Shared goals.

They all have the same plan, as long as the big-money gets to keep the controlling market-interest.

Corrupt...in that they're stifling the free market and probably innovation, sure. But e-cigs have been TOO successful and TOO fun with "flavors", supposedly.

 

[iVapeDIY]

I think there’s a decent chance that Trump is the GOP’s Beast Rabban.

 

[bombastinator]

Wow that was bad. The book IS better than the movie. People keep on trying to do versions of the movie that don’t suck but it hasn’t happened yet.

 

[Eskie]

Fine. Then who's the Sandworm?

 

[jandrew]

Fine. Then who's the Sandworm?

I am the Sandworm ... goo goo g'joob

 

[Baditude]

Big Tobacco, Big Pharma, and in fact most big companies donate to both parties fairly equally. It may not be exactly 50/50 but probably no more difference than 60/40. They essentially are hedging their bets by making sure both politicians in a race are in their pocket. I have zero doubt they will be donating to both Trump and whomever the Democratic candidate turns out to be for 2020.

So they are indeed ALL corrupt.

Oh, I said nothing about ethical or honest politicians, they likely don't exist in today's world. I imagine nearly every politician didn't get where they are without accepting campaign monies, many from tobacco or pharmaceutical companies. Those companies generally expect some special interest favors in return for that money. I'm sure that most politicians spend a great deal of their time in office campaigning for their next campaign donations.

Trump's top health official traded tobacco stock while leading anti-smoking efforts

CDC director who traded tobacco stock resigns

Juul’s New Marketing Is Straight Out of Big Tobacco’s Playbook

"Azar said the FDA would soon issue regulatory guidance allowing the agency to remove flavored vaping products that are believed to appeal to children. Five million children are using e-cigarette products, Azar said, calling it an ‘alarming’ trend.” Bloomberg

-- QUITE A FEW FORMER TRUMP ADMINISTRATION figures have gone to do work for Juul, a major vaping company (partly owned by Altria tobacco giant), either as a consultant or staffer -- including Johnny DeStefano, Rebeccah Propp and Josh Raffel."
POLITICO Playbook PM: Trump moves to crack down on e-cigarettes

The infamous Tobacco Agreement Act: The genesis of the anti-vaping conspiracy


Who Has The Most Tobacco Debt?

 

[VHRB2014]

Some people know who Muad'Dib is. Others are blinded by "Spice".
Others are entirely too educated to be Fremem. Long live Tr, er, Muad'Dib!

 

[VHRB2014]

"They anticipate that banning or taxing e -cigarettes would be beneficial to the sale of combustible cigarettes".

We really need an emogi that expresses an appropriate amount of anger in the quick picker.

 

[bombastinator]

Some people know who Muad'Dib is. Others are blinded by "Spice".
Others are entirely too educated to be Fremem. Long live Tr, er, Muad'Dib!
View attachment 839139

Back in the 80’s when the first movie came out I remember one girl in my art class desperate to see it. Feyed Rutha was being played by (a then young and muscular) Sting who was reputed to be seen stepping out of the shower wearing nothing but a pair of blue plastic underwear.

 

[AttyPops]

One of the two intros (with the princess reciting the intro explanation) is a young Virginia Madsen. Other other intro may be more...book-like...but her intro rocks.

Long live Tr, er, Muad'Dib!

Muad'Dib can spell "Hamburger".

 

[AttyPops]

Oh, I said nothing about ethical or honest politicians, they likely don't exist in today's world. I imagine nearly every politician didn't get where they are without accepting campaign monies, many from tobacco or pharmaceutical companies. Those companies generally expect some special interest favors in return for that money. I'm sure that most politicians spend a great deal of their time in office campaigning for their next campaign donations.

Trump's top health official traded tobacco stock while leading anti-smoking efforts

Juul’s New Marketing Is Straight Out of Big Tobacco’s Playbook

The infamous Tobacco Agreement Act: The genesis of the anti-vaping conspiracy


Who Has The Most Tobacco Debt?

So yeah, and the HNB iQOS is subject to the TMSA revenue too, right? IDK about their vape products, but in exchange for dominating the market, I won't be surprised to see that added in later.

 

[VHRB2014]

Fine. Then who's the Sandworm?

We The People.

 

[bombastinator]

We The People.

I always thought it was the earth. The thing about analogies though is they only ever kind of work.

 

[Georgia Boy]

I wonder how long it will be before we see the first Lawsuit against a Governor for for someone back to smoking Cigarettes and that person having then died. I realize all the issues with it from previously being a smoker etc.

But you know there has got to be one eventually.

 

[bombastinator]

I wonder how long it will be before we see the first Lawsuit against a Governor for for someone back to smoking Cigarettes and that person having then died. I realize all the issues with it from previously being a smoker etc.

But you know there has got to be one eventually.

Sure but what will happen in the meantime? It’s all about timing. Timing is hard. I had a friend who shorted yahoo once. He got creamed financially. Not because Yahoo didn’t drop like a rock (it did) but because what he was really betting on (stocks are securities and securities are wagers) is when it would drop. And it did it too slowly.

Perhaps the politician will no longer be in office? Perhaps the law will no longer be in place? Or perhaps the horse will learn to sing?

 

[Georgia Boy]

Sure but what will happen in the meantime? It’s all about timing. Timing is hard. I had a friend who shorted yahoo once. He got creamed financially. Not because Yahoo didn’t drop like a rock (it did) but because what he was really betting on (stocks are securities and securities are wagers) is when it would drop. And it did it too slowly.

Perhaps the politician will no longer be in office? Perhaps the law will no longer be in place? Or perhaps the horse will learn to sing?

Well said but the Horse singing is a good one there was a Horse called Cuomo yesterday he should be on AGT, I haven't actually seen one sing out his .... before

 

[Baditude]

It may depending on what the reasoning is. It’s possible the decision has nothing to do with health.

A post was made earlier about tobacco bonds owned by states which had something to do with the tobacco settlement back in the day (not sure how). Apparently the states doing the banning are also some of the largest holders of these bonds.

The numbers are in the hundreds of millions of dollars. I’m not sure how significant that is for a given state though. I don’t know how much money that is for a state, and how much of it they could even stand to lose. It might or might not be a significant amount of money for a given state.

Apparently these bonds retain their value based on how many smokers there are. The advent of e-cigarettes caused these bonds to lower in output much faster than anticipated and they are in danger of default. I do not know what this means. Likely someone does though. I would kind of like to.

Who Has The Most Tobacco Debt?