Can. Not. Pick. Batteries.

[Train2]

Woo-hoo. Just ordered my first 18XXX device. And a good charger, and excellent 18650's.
But that vendor didn't have what I think I wanted in shorter batteries.
Presuming any/all will fit in my device and charger can you tell me which of these to get (and why)?

1) Efest Protected Li-ion 18500 1500mAh 3.7v
2) Efest IMR 18500 1100mAh 3.7v Flat Top
3) AW protected 18500 1500mAh 3.7v
4) AW IMR 18490 (18500) 3.7V 1100 mah

I'm guessing the last one's probably it - that AW is just better than Efest, and that I don't need protected in a protected device (I'm getting an Innokin SVD). But it's confusing as heck - why are the available protected batts higher mAh?

 

[Thunderball]

.....

 

[AttyPops]

FYI - it's also about device requirements.

The VV booster mods often (almost always) recommend high-drain batteries. These are capable of putting out more amps due to their different chemistry than do standard LiIon. That's true for the SVD too.

The protected batteries will cut out too early in many use cases.

So get IMR. And I'd trust the AW from your list. But that's just based on reputation. IDK about Efast one way or the other, so no disrespect to them.

FYI - Besides the 18500's that mod can use 18650's too (10 mm longer) or 18350's (15 mm shorter)

 

[vapo jam]

for an svd, i'd get the imr efests or aw's. you are correct about the device being protected.

as far as efests vs aw's, in a regulated mod, they're about the same. the performance is similar (since the chip is regulating the output), and the battery life is about the same.

for mech mods, though, the aw's are much better than the efests - it seems like the efests don't deliver the power as evenly when unregulated.

 

[Baditude]

We use essentually two types of batteries in our advanced personal vaporizers. Li Ion and Li Mn.

Li Ion batteries are what are we lay people call protected batteries. They use a more volatile chemistry which is more likely to become unstable in a hard short, so tiny protective circuits are added in an attempt to make them more safe for our use. They do tend to have a higher mAh rating, but I honestly don't know why this is so. These batteries have historically been used in mechanical or un-regulated mods. They can power a regulated mod at normal fixed voltage, but they may not be safe to use at higher voltages. Some regulated mods' processors may see the protected circuits of a protected battery as a short and refuse to function.

Li Mn batteries are what we lay people call unprotected, high drain, safer chemistry, or IMR's. Their chemistry is more stable against a hard short, are less likely to become unstable, and do not generally require protection under normal circumstances. These are the batteries that variable voltage/variable wattage or regulated mods use because they are able to produce higher amperage for the boost circuit of the microprocessor. Regulated mods have their own protective circuitry; they can detect a defect in a coil or battery and shut itself down to protect the atty, the battery, and the user from harm. IMRs can be used in both regulated and un-regulated mods.

It's my personal belief that IMR's are a safer battery than the protected variety; however no battery can be considered to be totally safe. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/new-members-information/190146-pictures-serious-battery-failure-imr-18650-a.html#post3265928

The first priority in choosing a battery should be safety. Choosing a battery strictly because of a higher mAh rating can be deceiving and is not an indication that the battery is of higher quality. There are no standards in how a manufacturer may list the mAh rating of their batteries, so you may find some lesser quality batteries with higher mAh than a well known quality battery such as AW.

For more in depth information, here are some resource links about batteries and mod safety:

Basic to Advanced Battery Information from Battery University

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/announcements-news/129007-warning-rechargeable-batteries-apvs.html

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-library/129569-rechargeable-batteries.html

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/battery-issues/254690-protected-batteries-vs-imr-safety-5.html

Mechanical Mod Proper Usage Guide

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/announcements-news/271739-emss-ecf-metal-tubemods-safety-specification.html

Batteries : Vape Safe Mod Fuse 2

 

[Train2]

Thank you AttyPops!
Your battery replies are always informative, and just a LITTLE over my head - which is perfect .
I've got good 18650's coming with the mod - the "hybrid" Panasonic NCR18650PD, I asked about a couple days ago in another post. But there IS no readily available smaller size of the same type (panny, hi drain hybrid) - that's why I'm still looking.

FYI - it's also about device requirements.

The VV booster mods often (almost always) recommend high-drain batteries. These are capable of putting out more amps due to their different chemistry than do standard LiIon. That's true for the SVD too.

The protected batteries will cut out too early in many use cases.

So get IMR. And I'd trust the AW from your list. But that's just based on reputation. IDK about Efast one way or the other, so no disrespect to them.

FYI - Besides the 18500's that mod can use 18650's too (10 mm longer) or 18350's (15 mm shorter)

 

[Train2]

Ahhh.

You are helping me reach a level of understanding at least a step above "completely ignorant"!

See, UNprotected = LiMn = SAFER Chemistry is a concept that simply was evading me, as it is linguistically counter-intuitive.

Thanks!

We use essentually two types of batteries in our advanced personal vaporizers. Li Ion and Li Mn.

Li Ion batteries are what are we lay people call protected batteries. They use a more volatile chemistry which is more likely to become unstable in a hard short, so tiny protective circuits are added in an attempt to make them more safe for our use. The do tend to have a higher mAh rating, but I honestly don't know why this is so. These batteries have historically been used in mechanical or un-regulated mods. They can power a regulated mod at normal fixed voltage, but they may not be safe to use at higher voltages. Some regulated mods' processors may see the protected circuits of a protected battery as a short and refuse to function.

Li Mn batteries are what we lay people call unprotected, high drain, safer chemistry, or IMR's. Their chemistry is more stable against a hard short, less likely to become unstable, and do not generally require protection. These are the batteries that variable voltage/variable wattage or regulated mods use because they are able to produce higher drainage for the boost circuit of the microprocessor. Regulated mods have their own protective circuitry; they can detect a defect in a coil or battery and shut itself down to protect the atty, the battery, and the user from harm. IMRs can be used in both regulated and un-regulated mods.

For more in depth information, here are some resource links about batteries and mod safety:

Basic to Advanced Battery Information from Battery University

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/announcements-news/129007-warning-rechargeable-batteries-apvs.html

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-library/129569-rechargeable-batteries.html

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/battery-issues/254690-protected-batteries-vs-imr-safety-5.html

Mechanical Mod Proper Usage Guide

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/announcements-news/271739-emss-ecf-metal-tubemods-safety-specification.html

Batteries : Vape Safe Mod Fuse 2

 

[Baditude]

See, UNprotected = LiMn = SAFER Chemistry is a concept that simply was evading me, as it is linguistically counter-intuitive.

Understandable for someone not familiar with the technology. IMR's are "safer chemistry" meaning they won't blow up in your face if they go into thermal runaway, therefore they do not require "protection".

However, even the IMR batteries are not completely safe (no battery is) as shown by the one link that I provided above. They still can vent extremely hot gases that can cause a fire or a nasty burn.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/new-members-information/190146-pictures-serious-battery-failure-imr-18650-a.html#post3265928

 

[vapo jam]

as far as batteries smaller than 18650's, the only imr's that are readily available are aw's and efests. i use 18350's almost exclusively, and have been looking for something "better" for a long time to no avail.

baditude - if i remember correctly, the imr chemistry/ions physically take up more space than their icr equivalents, so a similarly-sized imr battery physically can't hold the same amount of charged particles as an icr.

EDIT: found the link i was looking for. think what i said was almost right...

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?325456-What-exactly-does-quot-IMR-quot-mean

 

[AttyPops]

The whole "mAh's per cc" thing is....tough. It was fairly simple back when we only discussed Li-Ion vs IMR. There's hybrids now and the equation keeps changing...as expected with a complex technology like batteries. (It's an art designing them).

The whole Max-amps = f("C-rating") with "C-rating" as a function of mAh is a bit nasty. It's best to check a manufacturer's specs if you can find them. Or stay in normal ranges.

The good news is that any new tech generally INCREASES the max amps. But I don't know that there's any guarantee.

All posted IMHO.