can someone explain the different types of batteries please?

[Kyi]

Ok, I just ordered my first PV/VV that requires a battery. The kit comes with some 18500 (also known as 18490?? thats confusing), but I heard that it was better to get different ones for safety.

Can I use any LIR battery as long as it fits or what? The unit is a Versa/A606 so it only uses 1 battery. I've heard AW IMR are good but I don't understand the difference between all these batteries. How do I know it is protected or whatever? I just want to order some different batteries for some peace of mind, esp hearing that some of these batteries from China are faulty. I definitely don't need my jaw getting blown off. What's this about not letting a battery discharge at certain volts?? How do I take care of the batteries?

 

[Credo]

ICR cells = Built in circuit protection. Such cells are more like deep cycle batteries...they last a while but deliver low amperages at long sustained rates. Think of these as 'trolling motor batteries'...long constant usage at lower amperage levels.

IMR cells = No built in circuit protection. It's up to the device to build in safety. Such batteries are also supposedly designed/tested to allow for short bursts of high amperage energy. Think of these more like engine starting batteries...they are capable of short demanding bursts of high energy and there is no built in throttle to stop 'over drain'. For devices that 'boost' or 'pulse' voltages...higher amperages are essential...and many of the VV/VP devices out there are indeed capable of safely boosting these 3.7v rated batteries up to pulses of nearly 6 volts.

My understanding is that the Versa/A606 is a modulated Variable Power device.
Typically these types of PVs have the battery monitoring and circuit protection built into them so you want the IMR high amperage batteries instead of the regular low amp 18500 cells with a protection circuit built in. Basically what these PVs do for safety, is they stop working once voltage dips below a certain level. This ensures that batteries do not 'over drain' and vent on you. It's highly likely that when this PV tells you the battery is dead and stops working...that in reality the battery is more like only half drained.

The red AW batteries are supposedly built to IMR specs and do NOT have a circuit protection button built into them, so they can handle short bursts of high amp use. The electronics in your PV will supposedly shut down while the batteries still have safe levels of energy stored up (so they won't blow up on you).

You can also get batteries from PV dealers that might not be Red AW branded...but are indeed built to similar specs. I.E. Nhaler has been known to order special batches of batteries that are built to their PV specs and are tested in similar ways as the AW branded stuff. If your kit came with batteries that are not 'red', the same is probably true for them as well...give them a try, they are probably just fine despite not having a red jacket and an AW brand.

So, if my understanding is correct about that PV, then you want unprotected 18500 IMR rated batteries.

If you have a straight tube mod with no VV/VP or other regulation circuitry in them, you'd opt for the 'protected' "ICR type" batteries, or drop something like an Evolv Kick button in there with an IMR cell for added performance/safety.

Many of the PVs out there using IMR batteries actually use less than half of their actual charge before the PV shuts down. That's for safety reasons. If you're using 18500 size, and are a pretty heavy vaper you'll probably want at least three batteries to rotate out. Mileage/vape time may vary depending on the atties you choose (ohms), your draw style/length and the unique chemistry of your particular batteries. Wether you stick to the same atties, or are always swapping them around (some batteries can develop cell memory and may take a little time to adjust to different atties/voltage settings...so how long they last between charges might be very consistent for you, or all over the map).

Good news: Batteries will probably actually last a little longer in terms of the number of charges they'll take than they are rated since most of the PVs out there don't come anywhere close to fully draining them...so they should last a good while before you have to replace them...good value for the money for this application

 

[Kyi]

Thanks a lot for all the helpful info! PVs just get more and more complicated with all these volts, batteries, models, amps, etc. So in reality, although batteries pose certain dangers to the user if misused, they should usually come equipped with some features to protect the user? Honestly, I am not sure if the PV I ordered has voltage or shortage protection, but the IMR 18500 batteries were recommended. It comes with some unlabeled ones, which I will use in the time being, but I also ordered some Efest batteries. I hear those are comparable to the AW IMR batteries, which are some of the top rated on the market?

Is there any rules for charging? Do you have to charge both batteries at the same time (guess it doesn't matter if they're not stacked?) and you need to immediately take it off the charger when it's full? And don't stick it in your PV right away, let it rest or something? Jeez... all these rules just make me feel like I have to be really careful to not blow my face off... but those are just pre-cautions right?

 

[Baditude]

Excellent explanation, Credo. Kudo's to you.

Concerning the safety of batteries that we use in our APV's, may I relate a story that I personally experienced not long after I received my first mod, an AltSmoke BB.

This is a well built but bare bones tube APV that uses one of the smaller batteries, a 14500 (AA battery size for comparison). Please note the protuding power switch in the below pic of a BB.



I had developed the habit of dropping my BB into a cargo pocket of a pair of shorts hanging in my locker at work. I go to the locker room during my breaks to grab a few toots. Well, this one time I go and reach for my device and it is too hot to handle. I'm thinking " !!"

I grab something to protect my hands to pull the mod out of the pants pocket. I see that it is covered in a black grimey substance and I first notice an odor of burnt electronics. I see that the battery skin is melted and both ends look like they have been blown out. Below is a lousy pic of this battery along side a normal battery for comparison. They are Trustfire "protected" 14500 batteries.



The BB did what it was designed to do by venting the hot gases out of the power switch. It has no venting hole in the bottom or elsewhere. After cleanup, it actually continued to work for about a week, then the switch died and need to be repaired by Chad at Altsmoke.

What had happened apparently was the protuding switch on the BB got compressed in my pants pocket, and fired continuously until the battery shorted out and went thermal. User error, admitted.

Lessons learned:

The BB is not a pocket friendly device, at least when not attended and being paid full attention to.

Second, this incident made me realize not to take battery safety for granted and respect the potential danger that they possess if the user becomes careless.

Third, believing a protected battery can not become dangerous because of it's built-in "protections" is ignorant and foolhardy.
________

I still vape by my locker at work. However, the BB is now in a Serenity Gear leather lanyard that I hang on a hook in the locker. The BB never goes into a pocket anymore.

 

[Credo]

Thanks a lot for all the helpful info! PVs just get more and more complicated with all these volts, batteries, models, amps, etc. So in reality, although batteries pose certain dangers to the user if misused, they should usually come equipped with some features to protect the user? Honestly, I am not sure if the PV I ordered has voltage or shortage protection, but the IMR 18500 batteries were recommended. It comes with some unlabeled ones, which I will use in the time being, but I also ordered some Efest batteries. I hear those are comparable to the AW IMR batteries, which are some of the top rated on the market?

Is there any rules for charging? Do you have to charge both batteries at the same time (guess it doesn't matter if they're not stacked?) and you need to immediately take it off the charger when it's full? And don't stick it in your PV right away, let it rest or something? Jeez... all these rules just make me feel like I have to be really careful to not blow my face off... but those are just pre-cautions right?

I did a quick search for your PV type. I'm pretty sure it has you covered on a couple of counts.

1. It seems to be regulated, or perhaps even support variable power from the description that I read of it (it alters the voltage in relation to the atty resistance to give a consistent 'power output').

2. It mentions pulsing technology, which infers further that it's a pretty smart PV. It should cut itself off while there are still very safe levels of charge left in the battery.

3. While IMR batteries do not have a mofset built in, they are considered 'safe chemistry'. That doesn't mean they can't be overworked and vent on you, but it does mean there is a little safer chemestry there to prevent it being catastrophically violent if that does happen.

No, you do not have to charge this type of batteries in 'sets'. In this application you use single cells and they are 'boosted to higher voltages' (as opposed to stacking batteries then 'bucking' the voltage to something lower). In this case Each battery can live in his own little world.

Yes, the Efest batteries do seem to be well designed/built/selected and have a good reputation for quality control.

Chargers vary in quality, but as far as I know anything sold these days for charging 18300 - 18650 batteries is intended not to overcharge. Once voltage gets to something like 4.2v, the light goes green and the charger shuts down. If you have a really fancy charger...you might can also put them through a complete drain and recharge cycle....probably overkill for this type of battery use and is usually something reserved for pretty pricey high end lab equipment grade chargers. If your charger can do a complete discharge/recharge cycle...I personally probably would not use it unless a battery sat unused for a really long time in various temperature extremes...or it started to wane in performance...then I might try it to see if it helped.

While it's a good habit to only charge batteries when you're around to keep an eye on them...you should be OK if you forget and the thing sits there in the charger well past being charged. Try not to make a habit of leaving chargers unattended for extended periods of time (like leaving the house for a weekend with a cell in the charger)...but if you do accidentally forget it 'should' be safe.

I have a pretty cheap charger, so just to be on the safe side I keep my charger in a fireproof porcelain pot just in case something should go wrong, or I forget and leave the house with it on, etc. It's not a bad idea to set up a charging station for yourself that is in a well vented, fireproof/acid proof/non-conductive area...like on a sheet of glass/stone/clay/porcelain/etc. I personally use a nice big flower pot that sits on concrete in the garage. A variety of chargers for all sorts of tools and gadgets sits down in there...out of sight...and somewhat protecting surrounding things if something goes wrong...it can get plenty of air in there as well so nothing overheats.

Inspect your batteries on a regular basis for any obvious dents or dings. If you find any signs of damage, don't risk it...get a new battery.

 

[Kyi]

Thank you for your very helpful and informative replies, you have eased my fear of blowing my face off.

I just didn't know HOW careful I had to be with all these safety precautions. As much as I enjoy a hobby, I do not want a sudden, unpredictable, risk of being injured, much less having something explode while it's right in front of your face. That is scary. So using the batteries is a lot safer if you use the correct batteries along with PV's that support some kind of shortage/circuit protection. Then as long as I don't do anything stupid, I should be fine.... but even that, what do you NEED to do to cause something bad to happen? Just so I know to specifically avoid doing those things... like mixing stacked batteries (I will probably avoid ever using a stacked battery mod just to avoid that potential hazard) or trying to charge non-rechargeable batteries (something I would never even think to try to begin with).

If most people know these precautions, how does it happen anyways (besides accidents like not having a shut off timer)?

 

[payne1226]

Excellent explanation, Credo. Kudo's to you.

Concerning the safety of batteries that we use in our APV's, may I relate a story that I personally experienced not long after I received my first mod, an AltSmoke BB.

This is a well built but bare bones tube APV that uses one of the smaller batteries, a 14500 (AA battery size for comparison). Please note the protuding power switch in the below pic of a BB.

View attachment 142902

I had developed the habit of dropping my BB into a cargo pocket of a pair of shorts hanging in my locker at work. I go to the locker room during my breaks to grab a few toots. Well, this one time I go and reach for my device and it is too hot to handle. I'm thinking " !!"

I grab something to protect my hands to pull the mod out of the pants pocket. I see that it is covered in a black grimey substance and I first notice an odor of burnt electronics. I see that the battery skin is melted and both ends look like they have been blown out. Below is a lousy pic of this battery along side a normal battery for comparison. They are Trustfire "protected" 14500 batteries.

View attachment 142905

The BB did what it was designed to do by venting the hot gases out of the power switch. It has no venting hole in the bottom or elsewhere. After cleanup, it actually continued to work for about a week, then the switch died and need to be repaired by Chad at Altsmoke.

What had happened apparently was the protuding switch on the BB got compressed in my pants pocket, and fired continuously until the battery shorted out and went thermal. User error, admitted.

Lessons learned:

The BB is not a pocket friendly device, at least when not attended and being paid full attention to.

Second, this incident made me realize not to take battery safety for granted and respect the potential danger that they possess if the user becomes careless.

Third, believing a protected battery can not become dangerous because of it's built-in "protections" is ignorant and foolhardy.
________

I still vape by my locker at work. However, the BB is now in a Serenity Gear leather lanyard that I hang on a hook in the locker. The BB never goes into a pocket anymore.

View attachment 142918

see i like to charge my batteries over night that way i have a fresh one for work the next day i no longer do that because of some of the horror stories i have hear and read about im thinking about getting a silver bullet but not sure yet. where did yo get the laynard for your bb tho.

 

[Baditude]

see i like to charge my batteries over night that way i have a fresh one for work the next day i no longer do that because of some of the horror stories i have hear and read about im thinking about getting a silver bullet but not sure yet. where did yo get the laynard for your bb tho.

I mentioned the vendor in my post. Just google Serenity Gear. He makes high quality products for a reasonable cost. He has suspended new customs orders until the end of the month according to a sticky on the website.

I can also highly recommend the Silver Bullet. A ruggedly built tube you could drive a truck over and it would still work, one of the best switches made, and finely machined threading that are silky smooth. With an Evolv Kick and an extension tube you can have a variable voltage device in your SB. Check out pics of mine by clicking on the link in my signature below.