Can we have this topic dedicated to temperature tootling?

[TheotherSteveS]

May be I misread your post. Until the AF firmware I thought I was well experienced with my TC builds, understood what was going on. I didn't. I've learned a lot from the real time feedback. I got out my nautilus mini for the first time in a couple of years to remind myself of that experience. 10 watts on a 1.8 ohm coil is a cool low key vape. If you're satisfied with that and use a tank I think TC is optional but it should be possible to get a similar vape from TC.

The important thing is that none of these devices, nor any of the add-on PC interafces like escribe or AF tell you what the actual temp is and that is what is important for considering the how much juice might be overheated to produce formaldehyde/acrolein etc. I agree that using these interfaces and looking at what is going on relatively in real-time is pretty interesting!!

 

[Noahian]

OK, that's what I thought you meant....not sure what I think of those data really but there you go! The problem is, the 'temperatures' we set on our devices do not necessarily reflect the absolute temp of the juice at the point of vapourisation. This will also vary from device to device. With most of my builds on a variety of high-end mods 400F is going to be a pretty anameic vape to be honest.

I know temperature measurements are estimations based on some assumptions but i've read the device errors are usually -/+ 10 degrees. Do you think the temperature of the juice can differ much from coil temperature?

 

[Noahian]

May be I misread your post. Until the AF firmware I thought I was well experienced with my TC builds, understood what was going on. I didn't. I've learned a lot from the real time feedback. I got out my Nautilus mini for the first time in a couple of years to remind myself of that experience. 10 watts on a 1.8 ohm coil is a cool low key vape. If you're satisfied with that and use a tank I think TC is optional but it should be possible to get a similar vape from TC.

So did i get it right : You are saying that 1.8 ohms at 10 watts on a nautilus probably stays under 400F? Because that has been EXACTLY my set up since i started vaping.

 

[sofarsogood]

So did i get it right : You are saying that 1.8 ohms at 10 watts on a nautilus probably stays under 400F? Because that has been EXACTLY my set up since i started vaping.

That's what I believe. That's not something i can prove. Even so there are a bunch of variables besides the temp of the coil influencing whether the liquid gets hot enough to trigger concerning amounts of bad stuff. When these safety issues come up i'm looking at what I do and the same for a brother of mine who vapes an n mini at 10 watts. I believe his vape is low temperature. I did the dry cotton test on my current build a couple days ago. At 400 degree setting the cotton got a few fibers tanned after a prolonged burn. That's close enough for me. I'm notiing if I reduce max temp to 360 F may be Ilikek the average puff I'm getting better than at 400. I'm still experimenting. My simple rda is helping learn about this because I can vape on a wick that's dryer or much more saturated than a tank can produce.

 

[Vesh]

don't all those studies suggest that the vaper can literally taste when a juice is releasing any bad stuff? That's the impression i get, that at dangerous levels, it would be intolerable to most vaper's tastes.

 

[louiesquared]

On thing to remember is that the temperature being analyzed by the chip is that of the wire and not the vapor. Different chamber shapes, sizes and airflow configurations will have very different effects on the temp of the actual vapor. That said, even different sized coils and amount of wicking will cause the temp to vary in the same atomizer. I find that it helps me to disregard what the actual temp is displayed and adjust to by what feels best at the time. Worrying about why it was fine at 400 yesterday but needs to be at 450 today is too much unnecessary thinking for me.

 

[Cosmic_Glaze]

I have been waiting forever for Aspire to come out with SS coils. When the Nautilus 2 dropped that was the first thing I was looking for. (For my Mini). Well they didn't, have no idea why. The Zelos is set up for SS.
Has anyone ever rebuilt a Nautilus coil in SS successfully? If so what were the specs, wire gage, ect? Think I might try it this weekend if I have time.

 

[GeorgeS]

"Toodle Puffing in TC mode"? Sure.

Disclaimer: Over the last nearly 2yrs I've almost exclusively used TC and I don't "MTL" however I don't often "blow clouds" ether.

My favorite tanks (currently in rotation) are the Nautilus, Lemo2, KFv4 and KFv5.

I was rather lucky to get my hands on a handful of VVTF v1.0 RBA's for the Nautilus (I own 10 of the v2.0's) and have outfitted my 'night vape' with NiFe48 and Silica wick. The build runs through a full size Nautilus of juice every few weeks and has been in service +6 months. Driven by a SX350Jv2 @ 15J and 380F.

The Lemo2 and KF's are mostly setup with NiFe48 flatwire, I'm currently vaping 7mg 66/33 (VG/H2O) juice in them. Most are set to 15W/J and 380F. (some are set to 330F) I'm not blowing clouds but take long multisecond hits on them to fill my lungs.

 

[sofarsogood]

I have been waiting forever for Aspire to come out with SS coils. When the Nautilus 2 dropped that was the first thing I was looking for. (For my Mini). Well they didn't, have no idea why. The Zelos is set up for SS.
Has anyone ever rebuilt a Nautilus coil in SS successfully? If so what were the specs, wire gage, ect? Think I might try it this weekend if I have time.

I've wondered about the same thing. May be there are no stainless bvc coils for the nautilus because they couldn't dupliate the experience with the current kanthal coils. I pulled out my N mini for the first time in 2 years a week ago. It's a pleasant experience and it has to be the gold standard of tootle puffing. I'm thinking about whether there might be a way to duplicate that experience with stainles in my rda. I still think the N mini is the safe choice for beginners but i'm not going back to it for a few reasons including i can't rebuild the coils.

 

[Layzee Vaper]

So did i get it right : You are saying that 1.8 ohms at 10 watts on a nautilus probably stays under 400F? Because that has been EXACTLY my set up since i started vaping.

That's what I believe. That's not something i can prove. Even so there are a bunch of variables besides the temp of the coil influencing whether the liquid gets hot enough to trigger concerning amounts of bad stuff. When these safety issues come up i'm looking at what I do and the same for a brother of mine who vapes an n mini at 10 watts. I believe his vape is low temperature. I did the dry cotton test on my current build a couple days ago. At 400 degree setting the cotton got a few fibers tanned after a prolonged burn. That's close enough for me. I'm notiing if I reduce max temp to 360 F may be Ilikek the average puff I'm getting better than at 400. I'm still experimenting. My simple rda is helping learn about this because I can vape on a wick that's dryer or much more saturated than a tank can produce.

You might want to check out mike's blog. He tested the 1.8 ohms nautilus coils... these are actual measurements not guestimates!
Actual temperatures inside a Nautilus atty | E-Cigarette Forum

I would not place too much trust in the cotton test or the AF readings....

I have had a play with the AF software with my istick 100W TC using SS316. It took a lot of tweaking to get the temperature displayed on the screen or in the software based monitor to reflect the actual temperature I measured with my thermocouple. For what its worth using the standard TFR for SS316 and un molested cold coil resistance and shunt values it was reading around 60F too low. In other words the coil was actually 60F higher than the set value. With a dry wick it was just tanning the cotton at 420F.

I have managed to get it to work, and it is reading within about 10F of the set temperature now, but I needed to tweak the shunt value, and manually input and lock the actual cold coil resistance. I also tweaked the PI values to work better with a simple single coil build. Without access to decent test equipment to verify the actual resistance and temperature I doubt I would have got it to this point.
A small error in the initial and subsequent resistance readings results in a significant error in the actual coil temp verses the displayed temp.

I think the AF software is worth while, and at least I have been able to adjust things to get it to work. I would have had a much harder time with the stock firmware. But it's not exactly plug and play.... I can see why so many people get frustrated and go back to a VW Vape.

With a bit of luck, further testing will prove that the juice is not getting hot enough to cause a problem even if the coil temps are significantly greater than 450F.

 

[SteveS45]

Isn't Tootling considered under 10 Watts maximum? I do believe that is what they said in the Tootle Puffers thread a while back but I could be mistaken.

 

[mackman]

I've got a DNA40 and a spool of Ni200 but I never got around to actually building any TC coils. I still mean to, one of these days. I got some SS wire too, but neither of my mods can do TC with SS wire, only nickel, so I have used that one, but only in standard wattage mode.

If your mods can set a TCR here are the values including all the SS wires Vaping Wires TCR and Explanation

 

[Vesh]

Isn't Tootling considered under 10 Watts maximum? I do believe that is what they said in the Tootle Puffers thread a while back but I could be mistaken.

Oh sorry, consider this topic aimed at all MTL TC then. I always thought tootling was any kind of MTL.

I apologise for my mistake. Cheers

 

[SteveS45]

Oh sorry, consider this topic aimed at all MTL TC then. I always thought tootling was any kind of MTL.

I apologise for my mistake. Cheers

No reason to apologize to me I think I remember getting reprimanded for talking about 10.5W in a TP Thread!

 

[GeorgeS]

I've often wondered about this. It seems that I may or not vape the same way I smoked cigars, cigarettes or tobacco pipes.

Two out of the three above I clearly recall "puffing" on: using only the suction of my mouth to draw smoke into it and then ether blow it out or continue on to inhale it. Usually the "puff" was ether test or treat the throat so if there was overwhelming irratation the "puff" would be expelled before any serious caughing ensued.

Cigarettes on the other hand were short DTL hits. Clearly not "filling" the lungs but not using my mouth or cheeks as the primary suction.

When it comes to vaping I'm liking two distinct styles - one where I take a long slow hit with somewhat restricted air flow (A KFv5 wide open is a good example) or something like a dual coil OBS Crius with the air flow wide open. What can I say, sometimes I like restricted and other times not so much.

I currently have 3 KFv5's running < 20W each, 3 Lemo2's running ~20W each and 3 OBS Cirus's running 30-40W each in service.

(can we count "toodle puffing" as anything not involving creating weather patterns?)

<ducking>

 

[Silver Dove]

You might want to check out mike's blog. He tested the 1.8 ohms nautilus coils... these are actual measurements not guestimates!
Actual temperatures inside a Nautilus atty | E-Cigarette Forum

Indeed, my reading of that made me decide that I needed to start vaping using temperature control !

So far, it has turned out that everything I do has to change.. so I had to get out of my comfortable place of being able to wind a kanthal coil and wick it and continue my happy tootle puffing on my Sirens - oops I vape at 12-14watts 1.2 to 1.8ohm coils... and I call it tootle puffing but I have a strange accent

So I had to swap wires... SS was my preferred route.. then I discovered that 28 awg SS produced different resistance from my kanthal.. so after spending time on Steam Engine punching in wires wraps and sizes, it looked like 30awg SS was what I needed, and of course, none here in Aus the land of thick wire, big coils and clouds lol !

Eventually, I have settled on 30AWG SS at 1.2ohm in the Siren and Kayfun 5 and on the Jac DNA 75 - at 200C - and 14 watts its OK... easy to set up on the mod.. and it works.. similar experience setting up 1.ohm on Hadaly rda on VT Inbox DNA 75.. but the Epetite dna60 does not like me, well my coils, so it looks like I am going to have to use escribe software to adjust those setting... sigh .. another learning curve required..

I am sure when I look back, I will say it was easy to set up TC and for safety, everyone should do it.. but..part of me wishes I had never read that article !

 

[KenD]

Indeed, my reading of that made me decide that I needed to start vaping using temperature control !

So far, it has turned out that everything I do has to change.. so I had to get out of my comfortable place of being able to wind a kanthal coil and wick it and continue my happy tootle puffing on my Sirens - oops I vape at 12-14watts 1.2 to 1.8ohm coils... and I call it tootle puffing but I have a strange accent

So I had to swap wires... SS was my preferred route.. then I discovered that 28 awg SS produced different resistance from my kanthal.. so after spending time on Steam Engine punching in wires wraps and sizes, it looked like 30awg SS was what I needed, and of course, none here in Aus the land of thick wire, big coils and clouds lol !

Eventually, I have settled on 30AWG SS at 1.2ohm in the Siren and Kayfun 5 and on the Jac DNA 75 - at 200C - and 14 watts its OK... easy to set up on the mod.. and it works.. similar experience setting up 1.ohm on Hadaly rda on VT Inbox DNA 75.. but the Epetite dna60 does not like me, well my coils, so it looks like I am going to have to use escribe software to adjust those setting... sigh .. another learning curve required..

I am sure when I look back, I will say it was easy to set up TC and for safety, everyone should do it.. but..part of me wishes I had never read that article !

You don't need to focus on the resistance so much. Simply wrap a ss coil with the same wire gauge, coil id, and wrap number as you did with kanthal and you'll have a comparable vape at the same wattage. Heat flux is far more relevant than resistance when dealing with regulated mods.

Sent from my M7_PLUS using Tapatalk

 

[lil_buddy]

I build Aerotank coils and have tried it in TC with SS wire. Not pleased with the results. The vapor seems dry (can't think of any other way to describe it) with the a distinct fabric flavor from the wick. Very odd.

 

[mattrix]

I'm using a VTC mini with Joyetech firmware. Haven't tried AF yet, AF seems to require a lot more understanding and playing around. Is the AF source available?

I'm not having a lot of success with SS and TC either.
It does seem to dry your mouth more. I don't know if this is because of the SS or TC.
I use "double puffs" in a single fire, the first ~2sec "almost" DL, and then I fill my mouth ~5sec while I exhale the first through my nose. I can hear the VTC pulsing each second as it reaches temp and stops firing.

I've tried 370F to 410F.
410 tastes a little burnt, and 370 is a bit insipid
And set the watts from 8-16W, and I still hear the pulsing. Sometimes it seems to work better at 8W. I think 16W may be overshooting the temperature in shorter bursts and consequently giving a harsher vape?

I probably developed my puff procedure so that the first tentative puff detects a dry hit condition before filling my lungs. I haven't had a dry burnt hit with TC, even when the tanks nearly empty but the vape isn't as enjoyable.

 

[Kickingthesticks]

I run two coil setups, first is a 30g x 36g 316 l Clapton. 5 wraps 2mm id, ohms about .8, works very well in a wine rta. My sweet spot is around 430f and 14 watts. This is more of a restricted direct lung inhale.
Second is just a 30g 316l contact coil. I use this at 10 watts and usually have it set to 450f. Mostly in a doggy style rta, this mtl setup gives me the best flavor so far.
All of my tc is done on a dna75 and sometimes I stick Pico. Using steam engines tcr profiles.