Can you test..

[tara81]

Hi Mooch,

I was wondering if you could test more internal mod batteries, it is so hard to get information on them , how to determine their CDr rating to know what wattage to vape safely at.
I am scared of carrying around external batteries and the risks that come with them, and of touching them to check for tears. Carrying a mod without worrying about switching batteries is just easier for me. I always worry that when I put the external batteries in and out of the mod, the plastic covering will scrape without me knowing, or the insulation ring will be moved.

If you could test any of these if you have any on hand that would be great!

Revenger go 200w
Eleaf istick qc 200w
Aspire typhoon revo 100w
Revenger mini 80 w
Tarot nano 80w
Coolfire ultra

 

[Baditude]

Sounds like the question should be directed specifically to @Mooch

 

[sonicbomb]

One would hope that the mod manufacturer would put a LiPo in that matched the output of the mod. In my experience that's a big leap of faith.
Sometimes the particular cell/s used in internal battery mod are listed on the web. If you can get to the internals, then you could also find markings describing the model/make or C rating.

 

[Rossum]

One would hope that the mod manufacturer would put a LiPo in that matched the output of the mod.

Exactly. That's how it should be.

In my experience that's a big leap of faith.

Especially when the product is made in China.

 

[r77r7r]

Question-Does Phil test these for that purpose? I'm sure most reviewers would vape these around it's higher settings??

 

[Baditude]

One would hope that the mod manufacturer would put a LiPo in that matched the output of the mod. In my experience that's a big leap of faith.
Sometimes the particular cell/s used in internal battery mod are listed on the web. If you can get to the internals, then you could also find markings describing the model/make or C rating.

Exactly. That's how it should be. Especially when the product is made in China.

This is why I prefer external battery mods over internal battery mods. I can do the research easily available to determine which battery is the better battery to use. Over the 6 years I've been vaping, I have purchased ONLY external battery mods. I've never used my own money to purchase an internal battery mod.

Can't do that (at least not easily) with an internal battery mod. The data on the battery used is usually not made available by the manufacturer or vendor. As Sonic says, you have to hope that the manufacturer knows what they are doing and choosing the better battery when picking the battery they use in their mods. Unfortunately, as Rossum seems to imply, many of the Chinese businesses have a different "standard" (some would say sub-standard) when it comes to batteries, electronic chipsets, grade of wiring, etc.

My current regulated mod was manufactured in China, BUT it was designed in the UK to specific manufacturing standards over and above typical Chinese standards. Of course, its an external battery mod.

 

[r77r7r]

 

[Baditude]

Question-Does Phil test these for that purpose? I'm sure most reviewers would vape these around it's higher settings??

PBusardo bench tests the power output from the regulator in his mod reviews, but doesn't test batteries. Maybe why he asked Battery Mooch to share his blog on Phil's website as he admits he doesn't know a lot about batteries.

 

[Robin Becker]

But all those Mods with integrated batteri

One would hope that the mod manufacturer would put a LiPo in that matched the output of the mod. In my experience that's a big leap of faith.
Sometimes the particular cell/s used in internal battery mod are listed on the web. If you can get to the internals, then you could also find markings describing the model/make or C rating.

it is like buying a steak in a marinade, you can never know how old is the meat.
When you use replacable battery like 18650 you can at least know the manufacturer of the battery and which safety tests the battery has completed.

 

[tara81]

Well I emailed aspire and the rep seemed very confusing. She said 25a I was like total or per battery? Then she said total then I was like you need to tell your manager that is good for 75w , not 100w. Then she said , but it's two batteries. So contradicting, I'm still waiting if she means it's a total of 50a or not.

 

[Baditude]

Well I emailed aspire and the rep seemed very confusing. She said 25a I was like total or per battery? Then she said total then I was like you need to tell your manager that is good for 75w , not 100w. Then she said , but it's two batteries. So contradicting, I'm still waiting if she means it's a total of 50a or not.

Most regulated multi-battery mods are wired in a "series" circuit, not "in parallel". As I understand it, that means the voltage doubles with each battery in the mod, but amperage is the same as a single battery. Amps do not double with each battery used when in a series circuit or parallel circuit. This was partialy explained in the video that r77r7r posted. Battery Mooch explains it best. Jump to 09:45 for the explanation for regulated mods.

 

[tara81]

What's the point of having two batteries if their mah and amps don't add up then?

How can someone even get near 200w if their amps don't add up?

 

[tara81]

@Baditude Also you wrote in your blog this - with no mention to series or parallel batteries , how does the user know what mods work in series or parallel? I just wanna vape at 70-100watts safely


-If you use a good quality 15 amp CDR battery like the Samsung 30Q or Sony VTC6, then you are good up to 45 watts per battery; 90 watts using two; 135 watts for three batteries.

 

[Baditude]

I provide data only for external batteries. That information is easily available if you know where to look. As I said earlier, most regulated mods are wired in a series circuit. If that information is not expressed on the product page, the manufacturer can be contacted to provide that information. However, the current or amperage output of a regulated mod is basically the same whether the mod is wired in series or parallel.

I don't provide data for internal LiPo batteries, mainly because the data for those batteries is not easily available.

The current or amperage output between a series circuit vs a parallel circuit in regulated mod is basically the same. Watch the Mooch video.

Theoretically, you should get longer use per charge with a multiple battery mod vs a single battery mod (speaking about capacity or mAh here), but that is not always the case. Different mods use different ways to regulate their power output. My single external battery mod runs as long per charge as many of my two external battery mods. Again, watch Mooch's video.

 

[sonicbomb]

With a regulated mod, series or parallel is not really important (to the user) as the batteries are separated from the atomizer by the regulator chip. The mod will draw on the power supplied by the batteries, expressed best as pool of watt hours. Most high power mods use a series configuration so that voltages above 4.2 volts can be provided without boosting which is mildly inefficient.

The amps drawn from the battery/s is decided by the wattage that the user selects, increasing as the battery voltage decreases.

Ohms/Watts Law - Calculating safe amp usage | E-Cigarette Forum

I don't know much about LiPos, but Mooch should be along in due course.

 

[tara81]

Okay I am sorry, I am super confused. I will have to watch that video

 

[ScottP]

Hi Mooch,

I was wondering if you could test more internal mod batteries, it is so hard to get information on them , how to determine their CDr rating to know what wattage to vape safely at.
I am scared of carrying around external batteries and the risks that come with them, and of touching them to check for tears. Carrying a mod without worrying about switching batteries is just easier for me. I always worry that when I put the external batteries in and out of the mod, the plastic covering will scrape without me knowing, or the insulation ring will be moved.

If you could test any of these if you have any on hand that would be great!

Revenger go 200w
Eleaf istick qc 200w
Aspire typhoon revo 100w
Revenger mini 80 w
Tarot nano 80w
Coolfire ultra

I wouldn't get my hopes up for any internal battery tests. In order to properly test batteries they would have to be removed from the device. In many internal battery devices that isn't possible without destroying the whole device. So in essence Mooch would have to have one of those devices, and be willing to tear it apart to test it. I can't speak for him of course, but my GUESS would be it's not going to happen.

 

[Robin Becker]

With a regulated mod, series or parallel is not really important (to the user) as the batteries are separated from the atomizer by the regulator chip. The mod will draw on the power supplied by the batteries, expressed best as pool of watt hours. Most high power mods use a series configuration so that voltages above 4.2 volts can be provided without boosting which is mildly inefficient.

The amps drawn from the battery/s is decided by the wattage that the user selects, increasing as the battery voltage decreases.

Ohms/Watts Law - Calculating safe amp usage | E-Cigarette Forum

I don't know much about LiPos, but Mooch should be along in due course.

Explanation is correct!
In most of the cases the operative Voltage in regulated mods raises with higher Wattage. But because The voltage in a battery drops while using it, the regulater, so-called step-up regulater "take" the voltage from the battery and raises it. As a result battery becomes warmer and will be faster empty (Mooch explains it very good in one of his viedeos).
The advantage in using in series, is that the regulater works the other way around (step-down of Voltage). This is more efficient and reduces the developement of warmth.
To LiPo (Li-Polymer) - those batteries have 2 main advantages:

1. The nominal Voltage is a bit higher in comparison to Li-Ion
2. Most of Li-Pol batteries keep Voltage stable along the discharge curve and break-down very fast at 3,1V-3,3V

...But LiPol have few big disadvanatages:

1. Not as safe as Li-Ion
2. Have lower cycle-life in comparison to Li-Ion

...and one of the biggest disadvantages in my opinion - most of LiPol batteries are China-Made and have no certifications or safety tests. Good LiPol batteries (like from Kokam) are more expensive per Wh in comparison to Li-Ion.

 

[Mooch]

Hi Mooch,

I was wondering if you could test more internal mod batteries, it is so hard to get information on them , how to determine their CDr rating to know what wattage to vape safely at.
I am scared of carrying around external batteries and the risks that come with them, and of touching them to check for tears. Carrying a mod without worrying about switching batteries is just easier for me. I always worry that when I put the external batteries in and out of the mod, the plastic covering will scrape without me knowing, or the insulation ring will be moved.

If you could test any of these if you have any on hand that would be great!

Revenger go 200w
Eleaf istick qc 200w
Aspire typhoon revo 100w
Revenger mini 80 w
Tarot nano 80w
Coolfire ultra

With everything I have on my plate right now I’m just not able to add general internal mod battery testing except for those with ridiculous claims..sorry.

The majority of them have batteries that are relatively well matched to the power rating of the circuit board. To help prevent possible issues, I recommend not buying anything that hasn’t been on the market for a while. This allows others to test it and post their feedback. You can then do some searches for the mod you want to buy and see what other people had to say about it.

 

[mimöschen]

Higher wattage internal battery mods suck. Plain and simple.
First of all, most mainstream internal mods use 18xxx round cells. LiPo mods are a rarity, and that rightfully so for the safety aspect, because INR for example is a much safer chemistry.
That said, internal mods just don't have any advantages over a replaceable battery mod, because you can use the latter just like any internal mod. Leave the batteries in and charge via usb, with the option to replace discharged batteries on the go. And if the batteries die of age, just buy some new ones instead of a whole new mod.

Plus if you can inform yourself about safety of the internal battery, you are able to do so for replaceable ones as well.

The only mods where I can see a reason to go internal though, is with tiny boxes like the Nugget for example, but those are not meant for high wattage/amp draws, so safety shouldn't be that much of an issue anyways.