Cant decide between AW IMR 18650 or AW protected 18650 battery

[evosil98]

Just purchased a Vmod XL bottomfeeder. It has a mechanical circuit and no circuit protector.

Im going to build my own Stainless steel wick atomizers and worried about any sort of short circuit.

I've read all the post and info about batteries and AW IMR always seem to be the best rated and safest. I want to get the AW IMR but worried about that it has no protection incase of a short circuit. Should I just get the Protected AW?

What are your opinions?

Thanks

 

[SteelJan]

In my opinion, any mod that was not designed to use IMR batteries should not be using them. You've got no short circuit protection and have no idea if the components, e.g. springs, switches, soldering, etc., in the mod can take the many-times-higher instantaneous current the IMR battery produces.

For me, I use protected lithium ion batteries in these types of mods, not IMR.

 

[Switched]

In my opinion, any mod that was not designed to use IMR batteries should not be using them. You've got no short circuit protection and have no idea if the components, e.g. springs, switches, soldering, etc., in the mod can take the many-times-higher instantaneous current the IMR battery produces.

For me, I use protected lithium ion batteries in these types of mods, not IMR.

Jan,

I always respected your expertise and opinion, but why the sudden (IMO anyway) disdain of IMR batteries? I understand and support your opinion but IMO it is skewed towards protected batteries and perhaps a little subjective. Once upon a time I would side with you wholeheartedly, these days not as much. Let me explain...

An electronic circuit can fail at any time and there is evidence where protected batteries have failed, regardless of the fitted protection. LI Ion's although fitted with a PCB will vent with flame, whilst IMR will only gas off (no flame). I agree that should off gassing of both type of batteries be restricted, its case will blow up. That being said the gases released on both types of batteries are indeed toxic.

Personally because the majority of people use their batteries inappropriately, I would rather see them use IMRs (which can handle vaping) vice relying on a protected battery and be stressed, which can bring on by itself a set of circumstances that could lead to a catastrophic failure, regardless if a PCB was fitted or not.

IMO before folks even consider using a mod, they should at least have a working knowledge of batteries, Basic to Advanced Battery Information from Battery University and how to mitigate the chances of a thermal runaway, and more importantly understand what and how quick a TR can occur and what to do to prevent it.

As stated folks are using DCs, LRs etc... on underrated cells, some of this is supported by vendors, hey why not they sell stuff we buy stuff. Using a DC on an eGo is asking for trouble IMO, yet most everyone does it, and yes it is protected bat, and we have sen recent evidence of a thermal runaway there as well.

In closing, should a protected battery be capable of supplying the current demands, by all means I side with you Jan and support the use of protected battery (its like having sex with a condom while your partner is on the pill). OTOH if the current draw from te users set up is greater that the battery capacity, IMR all the way (having sex with a condom).

For the OP, the AW 18650 will more than adequately meet your demands.

 

[evosil98]

Thanks steeljan and switched for your opinions. Its greatly appreciated

 

[VpnDrgn]

Just my , the batt life of an IMR sucks.

I use an AW 17670 and get 8 or more hours from a single charge. Recently I got an AW IMR 18650
in a trade, and while I can see a definite boost in performance, it only last about 4 hours.

 

[Switched]

Just my , the batt life of an IMR sucks.

I use an AW 17670 and get 8 or more hours from a single charge. Recently I got an AW IMR 18650
in a trade, and while I can see a definite boost in performance, it only last about 4 hours.

IMO IMRs are a waste of money in higher rated batteries there for your input is valid. OTOH for smaller cells, IMR all the way. It's just a better vape, I prefer performance over longevity. BTW I use both types.

 

[Traver]

IMO IMRs are a waste of money in higher rated batteries there for your input is valid. OTOH for smaller cells, IMR all the way. It's just a better vape, I prefer performance over longevity. BTW I use both types.

Wouldn't the IMR batteries still be safer if there is a switch failure?

 

[VpnDrgn]

The problem is there is no over-discharge protection. If there is a short in the mod or a problem with the batt
it will try to discharge all of its energy very quickly. In a mod with a spring at the bottom, the spring will
collapse and the batt will break contact, saving the mod and the batt ( if the problem wasn't the batt to begin with ).
If there is no spring or it is in the top, the batt will destroy the mod and possibly burn the user.

IMO, this should all be taken with a grain of salt, no batt is perfectly safe

 

[SteelJan]

Jan,

I always respected your expertise and opinion, but why the sudden (IMO anyway) disdain of IMR batteries? I understand and support your opinion but IMO it is skewed towards protected batteries and perhaps a little subjective. Once upon a time I would side with you wholeheartedly, these days not as much. Let me explain...

An electronic circuit can fail at any time and there is evidence where protected batteries have failed, regardless of the fitted protection. LI Ion's although fitted with a PCB will vent with flame, whilst IMR will only gas off (no flame). I agree that should off gassing of both type of batteries be restricted, its case will blow up. That being said the gases released on both types of batteries are indeed toxic.

Personally because the majority of people use their batteries inappropriately, I would rather see them use IMRs (which can handle vaping) vice relying on a protected battery and be stressed, which can bring on by itself a set of circumstances that could lead to a catastrophic failure, regardless if a PCB was fitted or not.

IMO before folks even consider using a mod, they should at least have a working knowledge of batteries, Basic to Advanced Battery Information from Battery University and how to mitigate the chances of a thermal runaway, and more importantly understand what and how quick a TR can occur and what to do to prevent it.

As stated folks are using DCs, LRs etc... on underrated cells, some of this is supported by vendors, hey why not they sell stuff we buy stuff. Using a DC on an eGo is asking for trouble IMO, yet most everyone does it, and yes it is protected bat, and we have sen recent evidence of a thermal runaway there as well.

In closing, should a protected battery be capable of supplying the current demands, by all means I side with you Jan and support the use of protected battery (its like having sex with a condom while your partner is on the pill). OTOH if the current draw from te users set up is greater that the battery capacity, IMR all the way (having sex with a condom).

For the OP, the AW 18650 will more than adequately meet your demands.

This is definitely not a new opinion for me. Did you watch my video review of the Helix, April 2011?

When an IMR battery is shorted, it reaches about 240F degrees very quickly and outgasses and although the battery is not supposed to go up in flames, other things around it may. Case in point was the lady whose mod with an IMR 18650 in it failed in her pocket in a restaurant and she had to run outside with her coat on fire. So, yes hopefully the user has time to throw the device away from themselves or whatever.

When a protected lithium ion cell is shorted, nothing happens. The protection circuitry doesn't allow the short to occur, the mod's not damaged, even the battery is not damaged. If the protection circuitry fails, then the battery will fail the same as an unprotected lithium ion battery, big heat, outgassing, yes fire too, etc.

I'm speaking about the above two scenarios from what I've read and demos I've seen. Knock on wood, I've not experienced a catastrophic battery failure of any lithium battery.... yet. I did have a case where I was using another modder's mod, the button did not fire the atty every time, I took it apart and found an intermittent short, the modder had skinned back two wires too far and they touched sometimes.... I was very thankful I had not used an IMR battery in that mod.

The OP asked about using an IMR battery in a mod that was not designed for it AND he mentioned building an atty where he's going to use stainless steel mesh for wicking which, since it is conductive and is depending on scorching over a flame to create a thin skin that will hopefully not be too conductive, is notorious for causing shorts or a much lower resistance atty than expected.

We each learn whatever we can about these batteries, accept our risks, and decide to take our own chances. All lithium batteries are risky.

 

[SteelJan]

Wouldn't the IMR batteries still be safer if there is a switch failure?

If the switch fails in an open position, both batteries will do the same thing, nothing.

If the switch fails closed, e.g. gets too many amps and welds itself shut, then the IMR battery is going to self-destruct, tremendous heat and some outgassing. The protected lithium ion battery will do nothing unless its protection circuit fails in which case it will self-destruct in a more catastrophic way than the IMR, big heat, maybe a bursting, outgassing, etc.

 

[Traver]

If the switch fails in an open position, both batteries will do the same thing, nothing.

If the switch fails closed, e.g. gets too many amps and welds itself shut, then the IMR battery is going to self-destruct, tremendous heat and some outgassing. The protected lithium ion battery will do nothing unless its protection circuit fails in which case it will self-destruct in a more catastrophic way than the IMR, big heat, maybe a bursting, outgassing, etc.

My understanding is that if the battery protection circuit fails the battery can self destruct with an explosive force. While an IMR battery will do so more slowly. I am also considering what may happen on a charger as well as vaping or sitting in your pocket. Anyway I am now thoroughly confused as to which is safer and I have read most of what is on Battery University and a few other places.

 

[jonny2hottie]

get an AW protected 18650 2600mAh. it has a nominal voltage of 3.7v and outperforms the AW IMR (from the discharge charts)

 

[VpnDrgn]

My understanding is that if the battery protection circuit fails the battery can self destruct with an explosive force. While an IMR battery will do so more slowly. I am also considering what may happen on a charger as well as vaping or sitting in your pocket. Anyway I am now thoroughly confused as to which is safer and I have read most of what is on Battery University and a few other places.

Here is what it boils down to if a batt fails for whatever reason-
( worst case scenario )

Li-ion = out gassing, fumes, flames, possible bursting

IMR = high heat, possible out gassing

Either situation can be worse or less worse depending on mod. A plastic box mod will be destroyed,
an aluminum or steel mod may survive and only need some wiring replaced. A tube mod with no vents
may explode like a pipe bomb.

The thing to keep in mind is that these batts are considered High Density energy storage, and none
are completely safe. For a relatively new technology, they are a lot safer than Li-polymer batts that
have been around a lot longer. With proper use and reasonable precautions the odds are against a
failure, but they can and do happen, regardless of which type you use.

 

[MiXoLoGiSt]

Although AW IMRs do not have a protection circuit built into them they are a safe chemistry battery which means they don't really need that protection circuit in them. If you plan to use low resistance (1.5ohm) attys or cartos on a 3.7v mod then AW IMR batteries are the ONLY way to go. The IMRs have the output needed to handle the amperage to push a 1.5ohm carto or atty while Protected Li-Ion batteries DO NOT! If you use a 3.7v Protected Li-Ion the battery can not push the amperage needed resulting in major drops of voltage under load. With AW IMR batteries there is hardly any voltage drop off under load meaning you are getting a better vape and it wont drop off nearly as fast as a Li-Ion battery will. Yes the IMR batteries have a shorter battery life but not by much. Nearly everyone who makes mods suggests going with AW IMR batts and there's a reason for that, They are simply better batteries. The AW 2600mah 18650 is also a good battery but i usually only recommend AW IMR batts and that's all i buy.

IMO stay away from Trustfire, Ultrafire and Tenergy batts.

 

[Traver]

When an IMR battery is shorted, it reaches about 240F degrees very quickly and outgasses and although the battery is not supposed to go up in flames, other things around it may. Case in point was the lady whose mod with an IMR 18650 in it failed in her pocket in a restaurant and she had to run outside with her coat on fire. So, yes hopefully the user has time to throw the device away from themselves or whatever.

Im a bit baffled as to what material in a coat would ignite at 240 degrees? My real question is wether or not an IMR failure will cause the battery to get hot enough to cause a fire.