Carto killing DIY

[elfstone]

I'm having some issues with my DIY mixes - mostly I can't find any way to make multi-flavor juices taste good. But that's a whole different story...

In any event, my juices seem to kill my cartos. They work great for the first load, and then something odd starts happening: the carto hisses, coughs and is very likely to end up burned (even in a tank!). Outside a tank, I find that if I inject some juice at the bottom it gives me a few good drags, but then it acts like a dry carto even when the filler on top is moist.

Now this is NOT a carto issue, because I don't generally have issues with my cartos - they work great with pretty much all juices I tried, including 100% VG.

But my latest own mixes do this. Not earlier attempts. But they still vape great when I drip them and they taste great.

Trying to figure out what this may be: I've been incrasing the PG ratio to no avail. Since there are several variables, I was wondering if anyone knows if: stevia, vape wizard or malic acid are known to kill cartos? Are there any flavors that are more likely to kill cartos? Anything else that I might be doing wrong?

 

[tsunami987]

I unfortunately may not be able to help much, but am kind-of having the same problem. I went from having problems flooding cartos constantly, which wound up being the fact that my home-made tank's grommets were apparently shrinking or at least not sealing after the first few re-builds, to my juice becoming some sort of primordial ooze, clogging the carto and seeping back out to mix the juice in the rest of my tank. I DID go pretty heavy on the flavoring, heavy being roughly 10% of the total mixture. Most of that is alcohol based flavorings, aside from 2% being a pg based flavor.

I don't think vape wizard is that bad at low percentages... Stevia, I have no idea, but malic acid should be fine.

Out of curiousity, how long do you steep? I've been unable to let a juice sit for more than a day before going to town, but that's me. I almost wonder if that might be the problem...

 

[LucentShadow]

Out of the 3 things you suspect, I'd suspect the stevia of possibly gunking up the coil (and wick coming into it.) The limited research that I did on stevia a while back when I first heard of it seemed to indicate that it was very similar to glucose. I've never used it for anything, so I can't say much about it, and I could be wrong...

Personally, the only flavorings that I've had much trouble with are dark ones that have very fine sediment in them. The king carto killer for me is my twice-filtered DIY VG instant coffee extract. It'll choke a new CE2 out in about 2 hours, mixed at 6.5% flavoring.

My advice on multi-flavored juices is to pick one main flavor, and add the other ones in as 'notes' in significantly smaller amounts. I found that most juices where I added nearly equal amounts of different flavors just ended up tasting muddy to me. That, and don't overdo the flavoring.

 

[Kurt]

Stevia might be the issue. Wiki it. It is a BIG molecule, with polysaccharide side-groups, which I would think would decompose with coil heat. People have not had the best success with stevia, often claiming a "wet dog" flavor, which would imply decomposition. Try removing stevia and see how it goes. I've not used it myself, mainly because I don't want to inhale decomp products, or larger bio-molecules. I just don't think stevia is a good thing to vape, natural or not.

 

[VapRVixN]

Yes, sweeteners, and so far I've also found the sour drops from TPA and Honey from TPA will kill cartos both in tanks and unpunched ones sometimes within hours. It burns and caramelizes onto the coils (as I have found from dead cartos I autopsied.) It is possible that some of the flavor notes themselves can do this if they are naturally or artificially sweetened.

The last two months I've been putting in almost weekly orders at TPA, and have almost all of their flavors now and some from FA and Capella's. The key to blending fruit is to know what each one tastes like. I taste test the flavor before I mix and vape it. Smelling some of the flavors is deceiving, but tasting gives you a better sense of how it will work.

Some fruit flavors are more mild, or not as concentrated, others are strong and overpowering. You have to be able to gauge the amount added to the mix in order to not cancel out the other flavors. So using something strong like blackberry, with a strawberry, raspberry mix, more strawberry, and equal amounts of raspberry and blackberry. Try it. Maybe add some balancing notes like a few drops of vanilla, or yam (which has a nice mellowing effect.) or marshmallow.

 

[elfstone]

Thanks, guys. Lots of great advice.

I also am becoming sure that the Tart&Sour is a culprit from what you're saying and given that it is what I've used in most juices. From a different thread I got the idea that just malic acid might not have this effect. What do you think?

I will stop using stevia anyway, as I learned to trust Kurt's chemical knowledge from my lurking around What sweetener do you use? Some sugar alcohol? Something else? I don't enjoy ethyl-maltol very much... What is "marshmallow" molecule-wise?

 

[fiftythree33]

After 3 weeks and countless successful batches of my own ejuice I finally got around to trying the tart and sour. 5 drops in a 10ml bottle of Peach that I had already vaped a little of killed 2 cartos in 10 drags. I know it thinned the juice quite a bit (70/30 mix) as it ran through the carto like water. The first couple drags did taste better than without it though...

 

[Shilo]

How much tart n sour are you guys using in your mixes? I never had this happen as its to be used sparingly. A big culprit of clogged cartos is sweetener and dark juices like coffee, chocolate etc.

 

[elfstone]

Well, it's confirmed. It is tart&sour, and stevia possibly. I had a no stevia, lots of tart&sour juice that behaved badly. I made a batch of the exact same without tart&sour and I've been vaping it the whole day in the same carto with absolutely no change in the draw or performance whereas before the carto would start acting up within a couple of hours.

 

[Str8V8ping]

iv found t&s ,citric etc to clog cartos as well .It would make them burn within a few hours. In the rare case i use it now i only do 1 drop per 10ml. Stevia iv always felt like it ruined my juices so i never use it.

 

[Shilo]

I wonder if just malic acid does this as well--if anybody uses this without issue let me know. I saw TPA had a Sour flavor that is supposed to be malic acid premixed. So I am assuming that citric acid might be the culprit. Where did all those people who use lemon juice run off to?

 

[Str8V8ping]

Since malic acid is just as strong as citric im guessing it would have the same clogging charactoristics. I cant see any reason why it wouldnt clog the same. Its most likely breaking down the filler of the carto.

 

[elfstone]

Where did all those people who use lemon juice run off to?

To China to get bulk cartos!

 

[Lethalp]

I no! I use both tart and sour and a sweetener!! I use bout 8 drops per 15 ml of tart and sour and 4 drops per 15 ml of sweetener. But I only have done this with clear or almost clear juices, but have not had any clogging or burning of cartos. Am I just getting lucky?


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

 

[Lethalp]

Yes, where are the lemon juice users? These are the only two things I have used in my premade juices to help perk them up and make them yummy, if I have to give them up I def am going to need a replacement. So if u aren't using those two things, what are u using??
Thanks

 

[Str8V8ping]

I use a little on occasion a a couple recipes. FOr the most part iv just been making better recipes that dont need enhancers. Just dont use a lot and youll be fine. 1 drop per 5-10ml is enough.

 

[buffaloguy]

I use lemon juice. Fresh squeezed in fact. I didnt like the extra ingredients in "real lemon" available from the grocery store. I use it sparingly. 1drop per 5ml of mixed juice and only on fruit flavors, or things like mountain dew juice. It is shelf stable from what I can tell in a final juice mix. I however keep the lemon juice itself stored in the fridge, and for freshness sake I make a new bottle every four weeks.

I simply take half a lemon and squeeze it over a funnel lined with a coffee filter into a clear glass. (this way i can see if there is ANY particulate getting through the filter. If so, I pour that juice again through a new clean filter. Then I bottle it in a 10ml dropper bottle and its ready for use.

It works great, adds a nice pop to fruit juices, and I have had ZERO issues with clogged cartos, tanks, attys anything. I have also done the same process with limes but frankly couldnt find a use for it and lemon juice is better in mountain dew juice, imo.

Extracting lemons into pg to make a lemon flavored concentrate however Ive failed at twice now. My guess is that would require distillation and that equipment I just dont have.