Cartotank vs Bottom Feed?
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The vap from a bottom feed is awesome basically like dripping. Only drawback is wrapping coils can be a pita until you get it down
One benefit of a bottom feeder over a carto tank is that you don't have to use cartos with a bottom feeder. You *can* use a carto with a bottom feeder, but it also lets you use atty's. Even the best filler cartos have some effect on the flavor of your juice.
Another benefit is never having to fill a carto tank again. Bottom feeder bottles are much easier to fill and really reduce the possibility of messes.
Since you are looking at the vape mate, I will say that it is really worth doing your research on that particular item. The search box here on ECF will be very useful and youtube is also a great resource. Don't limit yourself to just the posts and videos done by those who are completely enamored with that device. While it is a well constructed item and was/is very innovative, it is worth making note of some of the dislikes a few people have talked about and judging for yourself if it's right for you. -- But then, I do see that SuperT has some blems in stock for thirty bucks. That's a really good deal and pretty hard to pass up. I'm pretty sure I paid at least twice that for mine.
Another benefit is never having to fill a carto tank again. Bottom feeder bottles are much easier to fill and really reduce the possibility of messes.
Since you are looking at the vape mate, I will say that it is really worth doing your research on that particular item. The search box here on ECF will be very useful and youtube is also a great resource. Don't limit yourself to just the posts and videos done by those who are completely enamored with that device. While it is a well constructed item and was/is very innovative, it is worth making note of some of the dislikes a few people have talked about and judging for yourself if it's right for you. -- But then, I do see that SuperT has some blems in stock for thirty bucks. That's a really good deal and pretty hard to pass up. I'm pretty sure I paid at least twice that for mine.
To me, the benefits of bottom feed over carto tank are:
Fresh squeezed juice on demand - you control how much and when, applying just enough juice for the freshest flavor as needed.
Portability - with a quality bottom feeder and RBA (or even carto / factory atty) you have a compact, pocket friendly setup with only 2 connections (510 and drip tip) so less probability of leaking in pocket or breaking if accidentally dropped. A carto tank itself has atleast 2 additional connections to keep it together.
Simplicity - just fill the onboard bottle and pour in juice rather than disassembling the carto tank and syringing in juice.
Here's a video that demonstrates how the bottom feeders I use work:
http://youtu.be/WaDqS2kPLo0
Fresh squeezed juice on demand - you control how much and when, applying just enough juice for the freshest flavor as needed.
Portability - with a quality bottom feeder and RBA (or even carto / factory atty) you have a compact, pocket friendly setup with only 2 connections (510 and drip tip) so less probability of leaking in pocket or breaking if accidentally dropped. A carto tank itself has atleast 2 additional connections to keep it together.
Simplicity - just fill the onboard bottle and pour in juice rather than disassembling the carto tank and syringing in juice.
Here's a video that demonstrates how the bottom feeders I use work:
http://youtu.be/WaDqS2kPLo0
Just a counterpoint to the above:
Can't disagree about the unadulterated flavor from an atomizer, but those who enjoy cartomizers may enjoy a cart on a bottom feeder, too. And a bottom feeder has a small profile.
Simplicity - Here's the problem I had with my bottom feeder. I change flavors 3 - 4 times a day. With cartotanks, I had several tanks filled with different flavors that I could go to and it was very simple and easy to change from one tank to another on a non-bottom-feeder mod. To change flavors with a bottom feeder, I had to disassemble my mod to change the tank. Granted, that's not extremely difficult, but to me it was a PITA. This isn't an issue if you use the same flavor all day.
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Every day, I use bottom feed REO Grands with cotton-wicked, micro-coiled Reomizer 2.0 RDAs, and IBTanked carto tanks with LR cartos, as well as drip bridgeless disposable atomizers on my Super-T Simplicity. I also have a couple of Kanger ProTanks set up with AVE's Boba's Bounty and Cuban Supreme on a Joyetech eVic I hit every now and then.
If I could have only one, it would be a REO Grand. My well-worn raw aluminum Grand is my daily driver. It's the only one I take out of the house. With a 6 ml internal bottle and 18650 battery in such a tiny package hidden away in a back pants pocket, I'm good to go for 15-16 hours. The first thing I do when I get home is top it off with my cigar-flavored DIY and swap in a fresh battery so it's ready to go at a moments notice. It carries a still "safe for work" 0.8Ω micro coil and is second only to my powder coated Grand/RM2 with 0.5Ω coil in terms of vape. I wrapped this coil August 1st and it's still going strong.
Changing flavors in a REO Grand/RM2 can be as simple as swapping the bottle if the flavors are in the same class, i.e. tobacco flavors, fruit flavors, etc. There's only about a minute of vaping both as the new flavor overtakes the old in the cotton wick. Changing flavor classes adds a 60 second change of cotton in the micro coil, or having multiple Reomizers for flavor classes. I have four for my two Grands. Each costs $43, not a lot more than I pay for an IBTanked tank and a five-pack of cartos.
So why do I use carto tanks every day? The vape intensity or flavor don't compare to an RDA. A dark, thick juice, especially a NET, can clog a carto to useless in as little as a day or less, making it a very expensive way to vape compared to an RDA. It mutes the nuances out of the flavors in my expensive juices. The reason is I have a couple of lightly flavored DIY juices, and in particular, a tobacco absolute based DIY juice, that I prefer in a less intense carto.
Filling a carto tank is much easier with a tank tool or drip tip made for filling, such as the IBTanked refilling drip tip or the ByLeo Nail. I can do it without one by pushing the connector down in the tank and leveraging it to the side with the drip tip, but it's not fun. OTOH, there's no need for a tool when a carto clogs or burns out, even if the tank is near full. I just put the connector of the new one in the top of the old one, push the new one in past the first o-rings, invert the tank and push the new one all the way in past the other caps o-rings. But here's the rub... you have to carry a spare carto primed with the flavor you're carrying in the tank. Trying to prime a new carto by letting juice migrate from the tank is a slow, unreliable process. My on-the-go solution is a matchbox-sized plastic two-battery pack with an 18490 battery on one side and a complete 19 mm carto tank set up on the other side. These are also useful if you swap flavors on the go. But I always defer to the REO.
So why do I still drip disposable bridgeless atomizers? Aren't they the most expensive way to vape? Isn't the REO like dripping? Yes, they are expensive, and you go through them a lot faster with dark, thick juices such as NETs. Their life is variable. You might get six hours, six days, six weeks, or six months out of one. But IMO, they are worth it. Nothing is quite like them when it comes to nuances of flavor in complex juices. It's just me and the coil and the drops I put on it, and I just prefer to do it on my Simplicity.
Yes, the REO with a bottom-fed RDA is like dripping--in an RDA. To me, that's not the same experience as a disposable atomizer. You can still manually drip into a disposable atty on top of a REO, optionally using a sealed 510 to 510 adapter if you don't want what you're dripping to get down into your juice tube and bottle. And of course, you can bottom feed a compatible disposable atomizer. There are some kludge setups, but a bottom feeder is the only practical safe way to drip while driving.
A delivery device I've yet to explore is the carto-sized, ceramic-based, resistance wire + non-resistance wire rebuildable attys, such as the Sophia. While they're designed to be used with carto tanks, some are bottom-feed compatible, and some can be used as a manual dripper. They aren't cheap, but over the long run, may be less expensive than disposables, while giving a similar experience to a disposable when dripping. I am anxious to try one.
I keep the clearomizer on regulated mod around for the beginner experience. It helps me keep things in perspective, especially with the popular BB lab tobacco many use.
So there you have it--my perspective. Carto tanks are a clear step up from clearomizers, and some are satisfied with them. Most step up from cartos to RBAs, either RDA drippers or RTA tank types. Dripping is the ultimate vaping. The bottom feeding REO gets my vote for the most versatile setup.
If I could have only one, it would be a REO Grand. My well-worn raw aluminum Grand is my daily driver. It's the only one I take out of the house. With a 6 ml internal bottle and 18650 battery in such a tiny package hidden away in a back pants pocket, I'm good to go for 15-16 hours. The first thing I do when I get home is top it off with my cigar-flavored DIY and swap in a fresh battery so it's ready to go at a moments notice. It carries a still "safe for work" 0.8Ω micro coil and is second only to my powder coated Grand/RM2 with 0.5Ω coil in terms of vape. I wrapped this coil August 1st and it's still going strong.
Changing flavors in a REO Grand/RM2 can be as simple as swapping the bottle if the flavors are in the same class, i.e. tobacco flavors, fruit flavors, etc. There's only about a minute of vaping both as the new flavor overtakes the old in the cotton wick. Changing flavor classes adds a 60 second change of cotton in the micro coil, or having multiple Reomizers for flavor classes. I have four for my two Grands. Each costs $43, not a lot more than I pay for an IBTanked tank and a five-pack of cartos.
So why do I use carto tanks every day? The vape intensity or flavor don't compare to an RDA. A dark, thick juice, especially a NET, can clog a carto to useless in as little as a day or less, making it a very expensive way to vape compared to an RDA. It mutes the nuances out of the flavors in my expensive juices. The reason is I have a couple of lightly flavored DIY juices, and in particular, a tobacco absolute based DIY juice, that I prefer in a less intense carto.
Filling a carto tank is much easier with a tank tool or drip tip made for filling, such as the IBTanked refilling drip tip or the ByLeo Nail. I can do it without one by pushing the connector down in the tank and leveraging it to the side with the drip tip, but it's not fun. OTOH, there's no need for a tool when a carto clogs or burns out, even if the tank is near full. I just put the connector of the new one in the top of the old one, push the new one in past the first o-rings, invert the tank and push the new one all the way in past the other caps o-rings. But here's the rub... you have to carry a spare carto primed with the flavor you're carrying in the tank. Trying to prime a new carto by letting juice migrate from the tank is a slow, unreliable process. My on-the-go solution is a matchbox-sized plastic two-battery pack with an 18490 battery on one side and a complete 19 mm carto tank set up on the other side. These are also useful if you swap flavors on the go. But I always defer to the REO.
So why do I still drip disposable bridgeless atomizers? Aren't they the most expensive way to vape? Isn't the REO like dripping? Yes, they are expensive, and you go through them a lot faster with dark, thick juices such as NETs. Their life is variable. You might get six hours, six days, six weeks, or six months out of one. But IMO, they are worth it. Nothing is quite like them when it comes to nuances of flavor in complex juices. It's just me and the coil and the drops I put on it, and I just prefer to do it on my Simplicity.
Yes, the REO with a bottom-fed RDA is like dripping--in an RDA. To me, that's not the same experience as a disposable atomizer. You can still manually drip into a disposable atty on top of a REO, optionally using a sealed 510 to 510 adapter if you don't want what you're dripping to get down into your juice tube and bottle. And of course, you can bottom feed a compatible disposable atomizer. There are some kludge setups, but a bottom feeder is the only practical safe way to drip while driving.
A delivery device I've yet to explore is the carto-sized, ceramic-based, resistance wire + non-resistance wire rebuildable attys, such as the Sophia. While they're designed to be used with carto tanks, some are bottom-feed compatible, and some can be used as a manual dripper. They aren't cheap, but over the long run, may be less expensive than disposables, while giving a similar experience to a disposable when dripping. I am anxious to try one.
I keep the clearomizer on regulated mod around for the beginner experience. It helps me keep things in perspective, especially with the popular BB lab tobacco many use.
So there you have it--my perspective. Carto tanks are a clear step up from clearomizers, and some are satisfied with them. Most step up from cartos to RBAs, either RDA drippers or RTA tank types. Dripping is the ultimate vaping. The bottom feeding REO gets my vote for the most versatile setup.
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I remember a few threads where people talked about using MAP tanks on their bottom feeders to change flavors for a while during their day. They would keep their favorite flavor in the feeder bottle, and have a couple of tanks with other juice on hand. Later when other tanks started coming out, my best recollection is that what tank could be used without a 510/510 adapter depended on the width and depth of the catch cup.
So, if you ever revisit your bottom feeder, I think you could still use your tanks on it even though it might seem a little strange.
Thanks for the info. I'm intrigued with the Bottom feed mods, and will likely get a REO at some point. For now, I'm wondering if there is a cheaper, but worthwhile entry. Otherwise, I'll be saving my pennies.
This thread might be helpful to you. There are a couple of inexpensive options out there, but 'worthwhile' is very subjective. It depends very much on your lifestyle and tastes. You might find something you like in that thread, though.
I would save for the REO. In the meantime, here's a very affordable way of getting into dripping. They are bridged and more forgiving of new drippers, and are 2.2Ω and will be a little light on a 3.3V eGo. However, if you have a 3.7V EVOD battery, an eGo Twist/Vision Spinner, or an APV, they're better. Tutorial here. This will give you a taste of a REO. 
My bottom feeder is the Vapage VMod, which will not accept an exterior tank. The 510 connector is below the top cone, which holds the entire mod together.
Yeah. I had one of those for a short while. Sorry about that. I didn't really consider that possibility.
I do see that some folks have modded RBA's, RDA's, and adapters to be useful with the VMod. I'm not too excited about tinkering these days, but the big VMod thread and EddieAdams Rba Squid thread here in this section would be worth browsing for ideas.
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