Cease and desisit letters to ecig suppliers?

[plantlvr]

Got this email from another ecig forum-

Fda Very Bad News - Vapor Talk E Cig Forum

The FDA seems to be flexing its muscles, not a good sign!

 

[susieque]

this did not make my day... as someone pointed out and i have to agree on this, that there is so many drugs out there with the FDA approval that has so many side effects even death and they're worried about the e-cigs... well i quess it will be interesting to see what they will do..

 

[Xanax]

Is this for real...?

 

[Drozd]

have you read the warning letters?...

it was clear what claims could and could not be made early on...
yet these companies continued to advertise thier products as an aid to stop smoking....some of them even promoted vapeable vitamins, ...... or weight control drugs...

(the exception I'll say is johnsons creek (that one was primarily based on customer testimonials)

by those things...it goes back under the classification of drug device which there has been no new drug applications...
companies like that are undermining the headway made in the SE & njoy VS FDA case.... and they were rightfully stepped on...

 

[CSR]

Our tax dollars hard at work - what a joke.

 

[mwa102464]

I haven't heard of any new ruling by the judge about this so how can it be when this is an active court case

 

[Mar]

Looks like they are deciding that it is drug delivery buy the way it is advertised on the web site. Here is a copy of the letter to Johnson Creek.

Johnson Creek Enterprises, LLC 9/8/10

 

[mwa102464]

Yet our wonderful FDA allows just about every pharmaceutical to be sold over the internet and does nothing about it, heck you can bu Valium, Oxycontin,percocet ......, ......, what ever the heck you want and the Big Pharma is all behind this in with the FDA or else it would be shut down tonight, someone heck a lot of people here are on the take big time stuffing there pockets weekly with payoffs for this to be happening, it's like legal drug dealing

 

[Jimilives]

I woudln't say the sky is falling just yet, the fact that the FDA is talking to the ecig association and states they want to see if there is a way to verify the safety of these devices is fine with me. Personally whom ever started off by saying this was a "Smoking cessation" device needs a kick in the .... This should be viewed as a healthy alternative activity to smoking. The fact that they look similar is all that smoking and vaping have in common. One burns a chemical laden product, one heats a liquid with a faily harmless substance. And honestly i am sure with a bit of research we could figure out an alternative to nicotine, I honestly do not think its for the nicotine that I vape. then again zero nic juices dont seem the have the same weight in throat, but could something else? All I am saying is that we as a community need to take it from the place of "this isn't smoking" and while most if not all that vape quite smoking, at least for me its not about that. Its about a healthy alternative. I like the inhaliing and blowing out smoke, so if I can do that with out killing me or ones around me great.

/End Rant Here /

 

[flbutterfly1]

All this and yet they approved Prozac! I remember a time when the US was the only country that approved it. Other countries would not approve this drug because of the danger to people. There is a famous court case where dude went psycho shot up his office and all the family members of the dead sued EJ lilly and company they should have been suing the FDA. This just seems like another office shooting to me! FDA= F'in Dumb A**es sorry I feel a little better now but not much. My kids are so happy that my hubby and I decided to replace our cigs with an alternate method that we can all LIVE with and that I enjoy. If I could still get atty's and batts I could live with no nic DIY. I enjoy the act of vaping it's a hobby and I enjoy it just like cigar smokers enjoy trying all the different kinds or a wine conniseur enjoys tasting. Ok enough anting fo now.

 

[bpaulette]

Why do people keep going back to comparisons with major drugs like prozac?

Prozac (and every other drug people are bringing up) was developed by a major pharmaceutical company that shelled out hundreds of millions of dollars, in order to figure out all the possible side effects, and as required by law, then clearly spell out those side effects wherever its marketed, etc...etc.... Don't you see those annoying commercials where 10 seconds is marketing, then 50 seconds is the list of side effects?! The problem here is that no small e-cig/juice company can afford those tests right now... but if they can be kept in the realm of tobacco-ALTERNATIVE, its harder for the FDA to be as strict

This is really just more of the same (did border seizures ever really stop? no), and its what they've been warning ecig vendors against all along. Whats at the heart of ALL of this is the marketing. They are telling a small handful of retailers that they CAN'T MARKET IT AS A SMOKING CESSATION DEVICE... Easy! OK! So don't f#%#ing do that!!!!. Then other people say "well, those were just customer testimonials!" YEAH - they were customer testimonials on JCreek's effing WEBSITE - as soon as you (the company) put ANYTHING on your own website, regardless of who wrote the content, its being used as marketing. no .... sherlock

The other stuff about e-cig direct offering juice with ...... and weight-loss medication and vitamins, added right into the juice... that's just moronic, and they were practically asking to get shut down - its companies like that which could make the fight much worse

I think all e-cig hardware/juice suppliers need to take a VERY hard look at their website marketing content, and make sure its spelled out crystal clear, that its an alternative, not a cessation device. Even testimonials and reviews... yes, reviews too... if its on your site, its being used as marketing. bring out the fine tooth comb

 

[5cardstud]

this did not make my day... as someone pointed out and i have to agree on this, that there is so many drugs out there with the FDA approval that has so many side effects even death and they're worried about the e-cigs... well i quess it will be interesting to see what they will do..

Really, I mean you listen to product commercials for some of the drugs they've okay-ed and it's terrible. Dide affects could cause trouble breathing, hair loss, suicidal thoughts and in severe cases death, then the the agency is working with several some manufacturers for approval as a drug-delivery device, but did not provide further details. if erection could last longer than 4 hrs. call your dr. and they're worried about e-cigs. Sounds like maybe the FDA and Pharmaceuticals are thinking of going into the e-cig business and want to clear the competition first.
But one good thing will become of it. The black marketeers will start making boo-koo bucks.

 

[bpaulette]

yes, but those are DRUGS, and they researched the hell out of those, found lots of nasty side effects, and they're STATING THEM CLEARLY in the commercial - thats what the FDA wants... as "drug delivery devices" go anyway.

And each new comparison between e-cigs and drugs like that, and each time some vendor says you can use it to quit smoking, just like Nicorette (which also shelled out millions) strengthens that argument. We need to keep these in the realm of recreational cig alternative happy fun sticks people!


granted, I'm with you, that its all completely moronic - they should look at taking cigarettes off the market before ecigs-those have actually been proven to kill people, but all that aside.... comparisons to bigtime drugs with bad side effects don't help at all, is all I'm saying

 

[Arthur Dent]

They do seem to be focusing on health claims, including those in testimonials (which seems a bit ridiculous).

But the L.A. Times article linked above says the FDA states its actions are not meant as a larger effort to ban e-cigs. They're worked up about the health / "drug" claims. They say are interested in finding out whether e-cigs can be proven safe and effective.

And no, they don't have to wait if the last ruling was in their favor and there was no "stay" of that decision.

My concern would be that the sheer cost and complexity of getting this product approved as a drug delivery device could be disastrous for the industry. I'd rather see it treated as a food product, or, at most, a "tobacco" product.

(Disclaimer: New to the forum and don't know exactly where the conversation is, but I've read up on the legal status a bit. Apologies if any of this is too obvious or otherwise not appropos.)

 

[Sponge Bobiwan]

Bottom line. We simply must begin voting these big government types who think that they know how we should live every single aspect of our lives better then we do, out of office.

 

[bpaulette]

seems like a pretty massive oversimplification of the bottom line imho. so which box do I check to make sure I sever all ties between big tobacco lobbyists and any governing official who can make calls to FDA offices to use their influence? is that section C or D of the ballot?

 

[Arthur Dent]

Bottom line. We simply must begin voting these big government types who think that they know how we should live every single aspect of our lives better then we do, out of office.

Thing is, I'd like the FDA to do MORE in some areas. All these E. Coli outbreaks, the bad eggs, diet and heart drugs that are killing people ... it goes on and on. I don't know how some of the *drugs* on the market were ever approved, with all the crazy "side effects," like the drug for a skin rash that can KILL you in several different ways.

I can see making sure the juice conforms to safe food standards, the nic is handled safely, and this stuff isn't sold to kids. But classifying it as a drug delivery system, when real cigs are allowed on the market with no apparent controls -- not even a list of "ingredients" on how much horrible junk can be in them, is just way off base, in my opinion.

 

[MachoKing]

I wish that I could say otherwise but if e-cigs were to be banned, once my supplies were tapped out I'd go back to smoking.

 

[Drozd]

first off the court case only applies to njoy... not all the other ecig suppliers...
secondly the big courst case njoy and se were asserting that they're recreational tobacco products and should be governed under that...the FDA asserted that they're drug delivery device and need to submit new drug applications...
the judge ruled in favor of njoye and SE and agreed with them...

but health claims and talking about them helping people quit pushes it back into the realm of drug delivery device which only strengthens the FDA's case .....and then some ecig companies go and make vitamin ejuice, ...... ejuice, and weight control ejuice.... come on.....that isn't helping our case...it's hurting the e-cig fight in general...

and 5 of those companies got smacked down....the only one of those that may not have deserved it is johnsons creek because the letter wasn mainly based on customer testimonial (but them also selling syringes and the like didn't help either)

we argued in circles quite some time ago whether e-cigs should be classified as a tobacco product like se and njoy were asserting....and those that weren't on board with that idea are now seeing the reprecussions of it

 

[wader2k]

seems like a pretty massive oversimplification of the bottom line imho. so which box do I check to make sure I sever all ties between big tobacco lobbyists and any governing official who can make calls to FDA offices to use their influence? is that section C or D of the ballot?

Personally, I simply vote against any and every incumbent........regardless of party affiliation. Term Limits is my battle cry. Do not let them get comfortable!