Charging batteries in a bag

[Briar]

As per several recommendations, I got myself a lipo-safe bag for charging my batteries (AW IMR 18490 on a Tenergy charger - can't afford a PILA just now). When I tried it, I noticed that the insides of the bag started heating up quickly - charger, batteries, etc. Of course the charger does heat up in open air - it's normal, as I understand it - but the batteries themselves remain cool. When enclosed in the bag, though, everything heats up including the batteries, since there is much less air circulation, and the heat is more or less trapped inside a well-insulated bag.

My question is: is this safe? Is it bad/dangerous for the batteries to get warm inside the bag? And they get *quite* warm, if not hot.

I'm not sure if trying to be safer is actually making things worse here... I'm wondering if i should be charging them in the oven now or something...

 

[yzer]

From everything I've read heat is a big killer of Li-ion batteries. One of the reasons battery manufacturers recommend that Li-ion be charged to slightly less than 4.2V and be charged more often rather more deeply discharged is the heat encountered during charging. The less the heat and the less time exposed to heat the longer the lifespan of the battery.

This is one reason why I prefer to use a cluster of six single-cell chargers on cube taps rather than one six-cell charger that has all of the batteries crammed next to each other in a single compartment. The six separate chargers offer much better air circulation to the battery and to the chargers and cooler charging. I don't use a charge bag and prefer to charge near the workbench in the garage away from flammable materials.

 

[sandybeach]

So charging batteries in a charging bag would create more heat then, yes? Defeating the purpose??

 

[Briar]

From everything I've read heat is a big killer of Li-ion batteries. One of the reasons battery manufacturers recommend that Li-ion be charged to slightly less than 4.2V and be charged more often rather more deeply discharged is the heat encountered during charging. The less the heat and the less time exposed to heat the longer the lifespan of the battery.

This is one reason why I prefer to use a cluster of six single-cell chargers on cube taps rather than one six-cell charger that has all of the batteries crammed next to each other in a single compartment. The six separate chargers offer much better air circulation to the battery and to the chargers and cooler charging. I don't use a charge bag and prefer to charge near the workbench in the garage away from flammable materials.

Thanks, Yzer, that's what I thought, but, being rather innocent of mod-world (trusted Provape to tell me what to do), wasn't sure... I mean, a lot of people use those bags for safety, so I got confused.

I wish I had a garage or a shed or something to charge them in. But I live in a one-room small cabin. I think I'll charge them in the oven from now on. Without the door latched, of course - I'd have to do it that way to let in the power cord anyway. Do you think that's safe?

Also: I have to use an extension cord - is it ok to use a regular one? or do I need a special one of some sort?

I'm soooooo spooked about this. Even eGos seem to blow up on occasion. Do you guys know if eGos only blow up on a charger, or has it ever happened while a person was vaping? So far, all incidents I've seen were on the charger, but I'm not sure at all I found all of them on the forums.

So charging batteries in a charging bag would create more heat then, yes? Defeating the purpose??

Looks like it, doesn't it...

 

[yzer]

I would think so, unless the bag was used in a cold environment where the batteries wouldn't get very warm, even in a charging bag. I'm not planning on charging batteries in the garage much longer. It gets way too hot in there during the summer.

 

[sandybeach]

Well, I just ordered a charging bag. Guess I'll not use it. I have one of those XTAR II 2 chargers, it seems very good, so I just won't worry about it then.

 

[yzer]

Quite few ECF people use XTAR chargers. A typical 13 amp extension cord will handle way more power than a two cell charger requires.

 

[WillyB]

... I mean, a lot of people use those bags for safety, so I got confused.


Also: I have to use an extension cord - is it ok to use a regular one? or do I need a special one of some sort?

I'm soooooo spooked about this. Even eGos seem to blow up on occasion. Do you guys know if eGos only blow up on a charger, or has it ever happened while a person was vaping? So far, all incidents I've seen were on the charger, but I'm not sure at all I found all of them on the forums.

I'd venture to say nearly no one uses LiPo bags for charging Li-Ions if you look at the big picture.

Have you ever seen how the bags are intended to be used?

If you can't do it the correct way, as pictured, don't do it.

One of the reasons battery manufacturers recommend that Li-ion be charged to slightly less than 4.2V

What manufacturer recommends that?

 

[durutti]

I never charge my ecigarette batteries when I am not at home present.a problem I never had with mobiles our any other devices.probably because of the things I have heard, and because my first Asian no name ego charger stopped working after less than a month

Sent from my MT11i using Tapatalk

 

[Briar]

Hi, WillyB -

I am looking at the picture, and I'm confused: what's inside the bag, actually? The actual charger is the blue box outside, yes? But how is the battery connected to the charger?

And, is the point here that since the charger is outside, there is nothing to heat up inside the bag?

Right now, btw, I do use the bag, but only for my eGos. They don't heat up much if at all while charging, and having them in there safeguards from the "flamethrower" thing they have been known to do while charging.

 

[kwalka]

There is a reason that these bags are recommended, and that the vendors have started carrying them. No offense, but I'm not going to stop using mine on the say so of 1 or 2 people, when there are countless numbers saying to use them. Just my

 

[Boognish]

I use a Xtar wp6 II and often have every channel full with a battery ranging from 16340-18650. My charger barely gets warm and my batteries are cool to the touch while they charge. I just got a Lipo bag to use in my truck while I'm traveling this summer. I also intend to use it with my egos on the road and at home. My ego chargers do get warm. They kinda freak me out cause they are so cheap.

 

[kwalka]

Also I'm pretty sure most if not all of the reports I've read of eGos blowing happened when they were charging. I got my bag when all I owned was eGos now I have an XTAR with like 10 lipos and panasonics.

 

[Briar]

There is a reason that these bags are recommended, and that the vendors have started carrying them. No offense, but I'm not going to stop using mine on the say so of 1 or 2 people, when there are countless numbers saying to use them. Just my

My impression was that the bags are currently recommended for eGo-type batteries while charging. So I do that. But I also stuck my hand in there several times, and while the charger is warm, it's not hot, and neither is the batt, so I assume that the eGo charger doesn't put out enough heat to significantly heat the space inside the bag.

Not so with my then-current Tenergy charger - that heats up quite a bit outside the bag (the batteries remain cool though, outside the bag), and, being a lot larger, heats up the space inside the bag a lot, and thus the batteries get quite warm. Not hot, but what I'd call "very warm". That freaks me out.

I just bought an XTAR charger (because it was recommended several times on various threads as very good, though I wish I could afford a Pila right now). It heats up as well, though perhaps a tad less than the Tenergy.

Bottom line is that I'm uncertain what to do here. I don't believe the current official ECF battery safety sticky specifically recommends the bag for non-eGo type batteries, such as AW IMRs that I use.

I believe I'll start charging my AW IMRs in the oven.

 

[kwalka]

My impression was that the bags are currently recommended for eGo-type batteries while charging. So I do that. But I also stuck my hand in there several times, and while the charger is warm, it's not hot, and neither is the batt, so I assume that the eGo charger doesn't put out enough heat to significantly heat the space inside the bag.

Not so with my then-current Tenergy charger - that heats up quite a bit outside the bag (the batteries remain cool though, outside the bag), and, being a lot larger, heats up the space inside the bag a lot, and thus the batteries get quite warm. Not hot, but what I'd call "very warm". That freaks me out.

I just bought an XTAR charger (because it was recommended several times on various threads as very good, though I wish I could afford a Pila right now). It heats up as well, though perhaps a tad less than the Tenergy.

Bottom line is that I'm uncertain what to do here. I don't believe the current official ECF battery safety sticky specifically recommends the bag for non-eGo type batteries, such as AW IMRs that I use.

I believe I'll start charging my AW IMRs in the oven.

I agree with everything you just said. I feel this needs more research. I am inclined to say the XTARs and PILAs are not the type of chargers that are likely to fail as much as the cheap eGos with one small chip between safe and kingdom come.

 

[Carbon]

I use a TrustFire TR-001 charger for my AW IMR 18650 3.7v 2000mAh batteries. Neither the charger or the batteries get warm while charging and I haven't had any problems with them yet but all this talk about charging bags is really starting to get me paranoid. I am currently at my desk at work and I have my charger under my desk charging two batteries and I am getting the feeling I should relocate the charging setup. Are these really that prone to explode?

 

[markfm]

I use an xtar, with outlet timer that goes off after three hours.

I do have a charging bag, just didn't make sense for me.

I've heard a few people mention using a metal can, with a couple vent holes punched in the lid.

 

[kwalka]

There are members here who have posted photos of 1/4" thich steel blast charge boxes they have custom built. These things are like the size of 2 loaves of bread side by side and designed for a bomb to go off inside. They built a single hole for the charger cord. IMO, this is on the extreme end of things, but the point is if they felt it necessary to go to those lengths, this conversation is relevant. Steeljan who is a well known, respected member and an engineer, specifically says in a lot of her videos that she only charges outside in a clay flower pot on a concrete slab. I can tell you that Steeljan is not an extremist.

 

[WillyB]

Hi, WillyB -

I am looking at the picture, and I'm confused: what's inside the bag, actually? The actual charger is the blue box outside, yes? But how is the battery connected to the charger?

And, is the point here that since the charger is outside, there is nothing to heat up inside the bag?

These bags are made for charging LiPo (lithium polymer ) battery packs (stacked/in series). Usually 7.4V and up.

They are powerful batteries and the chargers are more sophisticated as they are charging at a higher volts/current and hopefully the stacked LiPos are being properly balanced.

Charging single 3.7V Li-Ions or even single LiPos is a bit less involved. Should you also use a charging bag for your 3.7V, LiPo equipped cell phone?

 

[NickZac]

Well, I just ordered a charging bag. Guess I'll not use it. I have one of those XTAR II 2 chargers, it seems very good, so I just won't worry about it then.

Honestly, if you have the XTARII or Pila, a charging bag is an added protection but probably not necessary, especially if you are using high quality batteries and monitoring your batts based on best practices. If something goes terribly wrong, those chargers will detect it. And if you are using something like the AW protected batteries, you have an additional circuit that will catch any of the major issues we see with this type of usage and charging. And while the red AW IMRs may not have a built in protection circuit, they are exceptionally safe for lithium batteries due to their internal stability.