Charging my Batteries 'N Stuff

[Hans Wermhat]

I also have the iPV4. I was a lil disgruntled when I discovered that the battery level indicator doesn't work the way I think it should. i.e. when it reads the batteries as dead and the "LOW BATT" shows up on the screen, your batteries are down to around 3.0 - 3.2 V depending on what wattage you are running at. You need to charge them at around 50% left on the indicator. Maybe just below that, but don't let your batteries drop below 3.6V or they will be on their way to the recycle bin in a hurry.

 

[speedy_r6]

Thank you, that's a fuller explanation than I offered. I agree with every word, except I didn't know about resting the batteries after they come out of the mod and before charging. Mind you, 3.6~3.7 is very close to nominal cell voltage and further approximates the "half-charge" state recommended for long term storage; therefore I don't believe so doing is harmful. I just didn't know it was beneficial. Why, if you know? Or perhaps we'll get lucky and a chemist or EE will come along and explain it to us both.

I had read before that discharging them all the way was harmful to the cells, so that explains why I stop draining them at somewhere around the 3.6v to 3.7v range. As for why I let them sit, it was because I had good luck doing that with my li-po batteries for my r/c cars, so i decided to not change what was working lol. It may be unnecessary, but I can't see it doing any harm.

 

[suprtrkr]

I had read before that discharging them all the way was harmful to the cells, so that explains why I stop draining them at somewhere around the 3.6v to 3.7v range. As for why I let them sit, it was because I had good luck doing that with my li-po batteries for my r/c cars, so i decided to not change what was working lol. It may be unnecessary, but I can't see it doing any harm.

Makes sense to me. I'm a big believer in not fixing things that aren't broken.

 

[RandyF]

+1 to @Susan~S
I use the Xtar VC4, and can recommend it.

Another vote for the Xtar VC, though mine is the VC2. Great charger, and lets you know where your batteries stand. The TrustFire brand does not have a good reputation, but they have named themselves appropriately.

 

[Mooch]

Thank you, that's a fuller explanation than I offered. I agree with every word, except I didn't know about resting the batteries after they come out of the mod and before charging. Mind you, 3.6~3.7 is very close to nominal cell voltage and further approximates the "half-charge" state recommended for long term storage; therefore I don't believe so doing is harmful. I just didn't know it was beneficial. Why, if you know? Or perhaps we'll get lucky and a chemist or EE will come along and explain it to us both.

I haven't seen a lot of testing/data regarding this but temperature is a killer of cells. Even at 45°C aging accelerates and that might feel just warm when we grab a cell. It certainly doesn't hurt to let a cell rest after discharging, as long as the voltage isn't too low, for a while.

It does take time for everything to redistribute equally across the anode/cathode of a cell so charging immediately after a discharge, or vice-versa, could potentially cause additional aging of the cell but I don't know if that's the case. Since the internal temperature of a cell is always higher, sometime much higher, than the external temperature I'm thinking this could be one of the bigger factors. So many things can affect the life of a cell in small, but cumulative, ways. If you have the time, let them rest!

 

[suprtrkr]

I haven't seen a lot of testing/data regarding this but temperature is a killer of cells. Even at 45°C aging accelerates and that might feel just warm when we grab a cell. It certainly doesn't hurt to let a cell rest after discharging, as long as the voltage isn't too low, for a while.

It does take time for everything to redistribute equally across the anode/cathode of a cell so charging immediately after a discharge, or vice-versa, could potentially cause additional aging of the cell but I don't know if that's the case. Since the internal temperature of a cell is always higher, sometime much higher, than the external temperature I'm thinking this could be one of the bigger factors. So many things can affect the life of a cell in small, but cumulative, ways. If you have the time, let them rest!

Thanks, Mooch. So be it. I need to order another couple pairs of cells, I see, to provide some resting time. While I have your attention, though, riddle me this: If I have more than one two-battery mod-- I don't, but if-- can I use the married pairs in more than one mod? Or should I restrict the pairs to always being used in the same mod? I am not talking about splitting them for use in a one-battery mod, just switching back and forth between different two-battery ones.

 

[nyiddle]

Thanks, Mooch. So be it. I need to order another couple pairs of cells, I see, to provide some resting time. While I have your attention, though, riddle me this: If I have more than one two-battery mod-- I don't, but if-- can I use the married pairs in more than one mod? Or should I restrict the pairs to always being used in the same mod? I am not talking about splitting them for use in a one-battery mod, just switching back and forth between different two-battery ones.

I'm not 100%, but it should be fine. I mean, I do it, and it's no big deal.

Like I've used my Sig150 batteries in my OKL-T20 boxes. They're still technically going through the same wear and tear, just in different devices.

 

[suprtrkr]

I'm not 100%, but it should be fine. I mean, I do it, and it's no big deal.

Like I've used my Sig150 batteries in my OKL-T20 boxes. They're still technically going through the same wear and tear, just in different devices.

I really thought so as well; the idea is to subject them to the same stresses and cycles so they wear evenly. But I thought I'd ask, when I had a chance to shoot it to somebody who knows more than I

 

[nyiddle]

I really thought so as well; the idea is to subject them to the same stresses and cycles so they wear evenly. But I thought I'd ask, when I had a chance to shoot it to somebody who knows more than I

I'm always a fan of consulting the battery gurus. (@Mooch and @Baditude).

 

[suprtrkr]

I'm always a fan of consulting the battery gurus. (@Mooch and @Baditude).

Ditto

 

[Completely Average]

I had read before that discharging them all the way was harmful to the cells, so that explains why I stop draining them at somewhere around the 3.6v to 3.7v range. As for why I let them sit, it was because I had good luck doing that with my li-po batteries for my r/c cars, so i decided to not change what was working lol. It may be unnecessary, but I can't see it doing any harm.

Do you know what "discharing them all the way" means?

It means dropping the battery to 2.5V. There isn't a regulated mod on the market that will let you fully discharge the battery.

3.6V is the "nominal" voltage. This is the voltage that the battery spends most of it's time at under normal use.

You're not going to hurt the batteries by charging them at 3.7-3.6V, but you aren't saving them either, and you're not using them nearly as long as they can be safely used between charging cycles.

 

[Alien Traveler]

1. Do not store fully charged battery for prolonged time (0.5 charge is optimal for storage).
2. If your charger shows when battery is "almost" charged, take it off charger - full charge shortens battery life considerably ; charging to 4.1V instead of 4.2V will double the life of your battery (but I do not care too much, I'd better buy a new battery than spend time looking on a charger).
3. If you stop using your battery at 50% discharge you may double it's life, but it is also safe to keep your battery until your device will stop using it (usually at 3.1-3.3V). I usually do not bother to look on indicator.
How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries - Battery University
And I do not understand why I should do not use a battery immediately after charging (if it is cool, not warm), can somebody provide a link?

 

[Mooch]

Thanks, Mooch. So be it. I need to order another couple pairs of cells, I see, to provide some resting time. While I have your attention, though, riddle me this: If I have more than one two-battery mod-- I don't, but if-- can I use the married pairs in more than one mod? Or should I restrict the pairs to always being used in the same mod? I am not talking about splitting them for use in a one-battery mod, just switching back and forth between different two-battery ones.

Yes, you can move any married pair of batteries between any different mods, series or parallel, without any problems. I like to think of it this way...the batteries can't tell what mod they're in, they can only tell if different amounts of current are being drawn. So moving them between mods isn't any different than keeping them in one mod and switching between two different coil resistances or going from VW to TC mode (or vice-versa) as far as the batteries are concerned.

 

[Mooch]

1. Do not store fully charged battery for prolonged time (0.5 charge is optimal for storage).
2. If your charger shows when battery is "almost" charged, take it off charger - full charge shortens battery life considerably ; charging to 4.1V instead of 4.2V will double the life of your battery (but I do not care too much, I'd better buy a new battery than spend time looking on a charger).
3. If you stop using your battery at 50% discharge you may double it's life, but it is also safe to keep your battery until your device will stop using it (usually at 3.1-3.3V). I usually do not bother to look on indicator.
How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries - Battery University
And I do not understand why I should do not use a battery immediately after charging (if it is cool, not warm), can somebody provide a link?

If the battery is cool to the touch, IMO, you can use it. It does take a couple of hours (2-5 hours, depending on chemistry, charge rate, etc.) for a battery to settle to its true open-circuit voltage. Using it before this happens, i.e., before all the ions have distributed equally across the battery, could be a cause for slightly accelerated aging, but I don't know. If this does happen I don't think the consequences will be noticable though considering the other types of abuse the batteries experience when used for vaping.

Bottom line, IMO, you can use the batteries as soon as they've come close to room temperature. Probably even when a bit warm without a noticeable effect on battery life.

 

[Baditude]

And I do not understand why I should do not use a battery immediately after charging (if it is cool, not warm), can somebody provide a link?

1. "Lithium-ion batteries are often exposed to unfavorable temperatures, and these include leaving a mobile phone or camera in the hot sun, or operating a laptop on the power grid. Elevated temperature and allowing the battery to sit at the maximum charge voltage for an expanded time explains the shorter than expected battery life...All batteries should be able to relax after a charge by removing or lessen the charge." Battery University



2. "Some of the most common things reported in relation to catastrophic failure of batteries in vaping related equipment are:

• The battery was put to use immediately off of the charger (you should let the batteries rest for an hour or so if possible after charging before putting them to use)." Getting Started: Battery Basics from God of Steam

 

[Mooch]

1. "Lithium-ion batteries are often exposed to unfavorable temperatures, and these include leaving a mobile phone or camera in the hot sun, or operating a laptop on the power grid. Elevated temperature and allowing the battery to sit at the maximum charge voltage for an expanded time explains the shorter than expected battery life...All batteries should be able to relax after a charge by removing or lessen the charge." Battery University



2. "Some of the most common things reported in relation to catastrophic failure of batteries in vaping related equipment are:

• The battery was put to use immediately off of the charger (you should let the batteries rest for an hour or so if possible after charging before putting them to use)." Getting Started: Battery Basics from God of Steam

Do you think the recommendation for #2 is for temperature reasons or because something electrochemical is going on?

 

[Baditude]

Do you think the recommendation for #2 is for temperature reasons or because something electrochemical is going on?

Rule number one, you shouldn't use a battery which is warm or hot. This is common sense.

Number two, charging a battery excites the chemicals in a battery to their most fragile/sensitive state which also generates some heat inside the battery, so to my understanding this would be primarily the electrochemical process you speak of.

That's not to say that I haven't slapped a battery fresh off the charger and into my mod before. I do try to make it a practice to remove my batteries from the charger as soon as they are fully charged and allow them to rest. It's a good battery practice, I believe, to have multiple batteries in a rotation: one in the mod, one on the charger, and a couple that are allowed to rest before use.

 

[Mooch]

Rule number one, you shouldn't use a battery which is warm or hot. This is common sense.

Number two, charging a battery excites the chemicals in a battery to their most fragile/sensitive state, so to my understanding this would be primarily the electrochemical process you speak of.

That's not to say that I haven't slapped a battery fresh off the charger and into my mod before. I do try to remove my batteries from the charger as soon as they are fully charged and allow them to rest. It's a good battery practice, I believe, to have multiple batteries in a rotation: one in the mod, one on the charger, and a couple that are allowed to rest before use.

I agree, thanks.
If I find anything explaining this more fully I'll post it.

 

[Nick N]

I would assume there would be a difference between taking the battery off and using it right after it reaches full charge and using a battery that has reached full charge a while ago but is still in the charger. I am thinking of my Nightcore i4 specifically.

 

[Alien Traveler]

1. "Lithium-ion batteries are often exposed to unfavorable temperatures, and these include leaving a mobile phone or camera in the hot sun, or operating a laptop on the power grid. Elevated temperature and allowing the battery to sit at the maximum charge voltage for an expanded time explains the shorter than expected battery life...All batteries should be able to relax after a charge by removing or lessen the charge." Battery University

It was said in relation to elevated temperatures and to storage. I am still thinking...

2. "Some of the most common things reported in relation to catastrophic failure of batteries in vaping related equipment are:

• The battery was put to use immediately off of the charger (you should let the batteries rest for an hour or so if possible after charging before putting them to use)." Getting Started: Battery Basics from God of Steam

This link I would not consider as reliable. Vapers have too many old vaper's stories.