Charleston, WV Dept Health again

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ByStander1

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From the article: Kanawha County Commission President Kent Carper wants to ban the use of electronic cigarettes for county workers on the job.

From the County Commission's website
The primary function of the County Commission is budget development and management, overseeing purchasing for the county, management of county assets,...

Perhaps our opinions are strongest when there may be some 'tipping of the cash cow...?'
 

WVvet

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This article really PD me off! I just got started with e-cigs and the ignorance is astounding. I am going to write to Gupta and Carper and tell them my story. I am also going to ask Gupta how he will feel if it turns out e-cigs are the answer to finally get people of cigs? Do they really think the scary pictures are going to make more of a difference than ecigs?
ARGHHH!
 

ByStander1

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This article really PD me off! I just got started with e-cigs and the ignorance is astounding. I am going to write to Gupta and Carper and tell them my story.
Glad it ticked you off, too! and...GREAT! Please WRITE!!!

Of course, Carper won't have nearly so much "budget" to "oversee" if all the smokers turn to vaping, now will he?

I am also going to ask Gupta how he will feel if it turns out e-cigs are the answer to finally get people of cigs?

At least Gupta can claim he's waiting for more information...kinda...

Do they really think the scary pictures are going to make more of a difference than ecigs? ARGHHH!
I'm pretty sure all those pictures are going to cause more crying children than anything. "Mommy, I don't want you to die!!!"
Cruel, really. And is it going to stop anyone from smoking?
 

ByStander1

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Just to be of assistance...

Kanawha-Charleston Health Department
Rahul Gupta, MD, MPH, FACP
County Health Officer
Administrative Services Division
108 Lee Street, East
Room 216
Charleston, WV 25301

Kanawha County Commission
W. Kent Carper, President
Kanawha County Commissioner
409 Virginia Street East
Charleston, WV 25301
 

hairball

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This statement says it all. It has nothing to do with what the FDA claims but has everything to do with the highlighted part.

Gupta said there is effectively no limit on the amount of nicotine that can be delivered by the devices and said they could be modified to deliver other types of drugs.

The guy is an idiot. I had a kid at work, who uses ...., wanting to know where I got mine. I only had my little battery with me at the time. I told him and went online and bought one. After trying to use it for illegal purposes, which he admitted to me, he was PO'd that it didn't work. Needless to say, I'm glad it didn't and he lost his job because of the drugs.
 
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ByStander1

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Yes, I'm glad your acquaintance failed in their attempt, too. (for totally selfish reasons -- the squashing of an idea of yet another invalid reason to go after e-cigs)

:confused: Nonetheless, this "power high" some seek by gaining dominion over their fellow man baffles me. The basis for the pursuit always sounds good (it's kinda a requirement)...

What are all the tools of the arsonist, ......, murderer, domestic abuser?...

...Butane lighters, baseball bats, knives, and dinner plates all have pretty good records of practical, daily use...
 

APD99

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    Gupta said there is effectively no limit on the amount of nicotine that can be delivered by the devices and said they could be modified to deliver other types of drugs.
    There is effectively no limit to the amount of analogs that a person can choose to chain smoke and I know that it's easier to modify a Black & Mild to deliver other types of drugs than it is to find other types of drugs that work well in e-liquid. It's time to stop with the scare tactics and start looking for provable repeatable data BEFORE we make any "out of the ..." statements about the safety of something. I guarantee you that if Proctor & Gamble released a non-FDA regulated product to make you hate the taste of fast food and McDonald's started spouting the kinds of BS we've heard from the anti e-cig crowd that there would be a lawsuit of biblical proportions dealing with libel and slander. Maybe it's class-action time for us.
     

    WVvet

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    Thanks for the addresses Bystander. Wanted to see what you think of my letter before I send:

    Dear Dr. Gupta:

    I read with some dismay your recent comments in the Charleston newspaper reference your attempts to encourage other local government agencies to ban the use of e-cigarettes. This was especially distressful as you were quoted as saying you don’t have the science to back up a county-wide ban on these devices.

    While I appreciate your concern for the public welfare, I think in this instance you may want to do some further research. Many of your peers who have taken the time to research this product in detail have some very positive things to say about it. You may read some of these comments at National Vapers Club - Meeting Place for lovers of e-cigarettes, personal vaporizers and all things "fog" producing!.

    As a relatively new e-smoker I can only say the product has been a life-changer for me. A smoker for 30 years, in spite of the fact that my father died from lung cancer at the age of 48, I have attempted to stop smoking numerous times in the past using both nicotine replacement products and anti-depressants. Like most other users of those products (only about 7% of users remain smoke-free past the one year mark) I returned to smoking. The e-cigarette is the first product I have used that addresses both the nicotine addition and the psychological and physical issues associated with smoking. While no one is claiming these products are any safer than other, much more costly, nicotine replacement therapy products, the recent FDA study concluded they contained about the same amount of nicotine as those products. I would prefer to take my chances on something that may one day prove to be unsafe in some way, rather than continue to smoke tobacco, which as you probably know kills 443,000 US residents every year.

    I just think it is a shame that health professionals can not at least reserve judgment on these products until more is known about their long term use. At a minimum they are protecting children and bystanders from the dangers of second and third hand smoke. How would you feel if these turn out to be the answer to finally get smokers to quit? Your unfounded disapproval could result in the loss of thousands of lives as smokers continue to light up with no hope. These products have been around for almost ten years now, with no reported deaths or serious illnesses from using the device. That’s not true of many other products, including aspirin.

    As for fearing the product could be used for other drugs, that’s just ludicrous. It would be immediately apparent because the user would be high. Nicotine affects users about the same way drinking a cup of coffee does. Will coffee be banned next in government’s misguided attempts to save people from themselves? How can the Charleston government condone a Methadone ‘treatment’ clinic, which sell fake ...... to addicts, and at the same time consider banning the use of what is still a “legal” drug, nicotine. I just can’t understand it.

    I hope that you will continue to research this topic. I would welcome more government oversight when it comes to the marketing of e-cigarettes (many of the highly advertised products are not the most efficient and cost-effective) as well as quality controls being placed to oversee the ‘nicotine juice’ industry. A good place to learn more is the e-cigarette-forum.com, particularly the “success stories”. I think you will be very surprised at some of the stories you read there.
     

    Placebo Effect

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    If you're actually in Charleston, you should try to speak at an upcoming hearing.

    Thankfully, this is only a ban for city workers on state property, so it wouldn't really affect you, but these local legislators need to know that there are e-cigarette users ready to organize if they try to take away your ability to use it in places where smoking is banned.
     

    Vap0rJay

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    If you're actually in Charleston, you should try to speak at an upcoming hearing.

    Thankfully, this is only a ban for city workers on state property, so it wouldn't really affect you, but these local legislators need to know that there are e-cigarette users ready to organize if they try to take away your ability to use it in places where smoking is banned.

    You can also demonstrate stealth vaping and hit a home run that enforceability of said ban is impossible since vapor has little to no odor. Then take out your apple and trusty pocket knife -- then show them how an every day piece of fruit quote "could be modified to deliver other types of drugs" and ask them sarcastically if they should add apple's to this piece of legislation. :)

    Bonus points if you can deliver said example w/ an eggplant vs apple. Because then you eat the eggplant and it has nicotine too!
     
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    MattZuke

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    My reply awaiting moderation

    my sundaygazettemail said:
    "Gupta said there is effectively no limit on the amount of nicotine that can be delivered by the devices"

    This is dishonest to say the least. The devices operate typically below 5W of power, at temperatures well below the point of combustion, and below the boiling point of nicotine. That's why propylene glycol and vegetable glycerin are used. The amount of nicotine they can deliver is limited by physics to lower than that tobacco can.

    "Gupta said ... they could be modified to deliver other types of drugs."

    We're talking about a portable Glade Plug in, except Glade Plugins use paraffin thus they are MORE TOXIC, and consume much more kilowatt/hrs. It might be an alternative to deliver meds like Primatene Mist, but anything you need a lighter or torch for is simply not an option.

    But maybe Gupta is more in the know about recreational Glade Plug in use, or electric trains as drug delivery devices.

    :p
     
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