Chinese Temperature Control reading test, not scientific :P

[bigbadrobby]

Just a heads up on the differences between the different Temperature Control/Limiting/Protection devices available from China.
Due to not having anything really suitable to accurately measure the temperature, this is more of a comparative thing.
The set up was an IR temp scanner fixed securely in a small suction vice. It couldn`t move, vital for a test like this.
The wood mod you see in the picture is glued to the worktop

So the relative positions of the coil and the scanner were the same for each of the mods.

There is a Magma fitted to it which again cannot move in relation to the temp scanner. A couple of leads are soldered to the 510 in the wooden mod and then a modified 510 adapter is soldered at the other end, which can be screwed onto a mod without disturbing the position of the atomiser or Infra Red Temperature Scanner.
All of the mods were set to 400F and tested one by one on the set up.
The temperature control kicked in almost immediately on all mods as the wick was dry.

THE DISPLAYED NUMBERS WERE AS FOLLOWS

KANGXIN MINI......................................92/93
HEATVAPE INVADER..............................81/82
IPV4.................................................120/121
HB40..EVOLVE DNA40...........................91/92
VAPORFLASK KANGXIN..........................85/86
VAPORFLASK WAIDEA............................82/83


It confirms my thoughts on the IPV4 displayed temperature inaccuracy which is way out.
I have seen quite a few references to failed wick burn tests on the IPV4.
All of the other ones are fairly close to each other.


I think the way forward with these mods is to do the burn test on each mod and take a wick scorch temperature reference reading for that particular mod.
Use that as your ref. Maybe start off at 50F below that ref and adjust to your taste without getting too close to the ref temperature.


I have to set my IPV4 at 310/320F to get a comparable vape experience to the other mods. But IMO each make should be treated individually.
You will see that the numbers do not correspond to what you would expect, that is because you cannot use a cheapish infra red scanner to read the temperature
with something as small as an atty coil.

But the relative numbers are a valid test.
​

 

[becosemsaida]

OK, help me with something pleaseeeeeeeee.... All the devices were set at 400ºF but the numbers (results) are in what ??? So i put a coil to 400ºF and it reads 92/93 for ex. ????? I'm lost here.....

beco

 

[TheotherSteveS]

OK, help me with something pleaseeeeeeeee.... All the devices were set at 400ºF but the numbers (results) are in what ??? So i put a coil to 400ºF and it reads 92/93 for ex. ????? I'm lost here.....

beco

as OP said, the absolute numbers are not meaningful because of limitations of his setup but the relative differences between them are of value!

 

[bigbadrobby]

OK, help me with something pleaseeeeeeeee.... All the devices were set at 400ºF but the numbers (results) are in what ??? So i put a coil to 400ºF and it reads 92/93 for ex. ????? I'm lost here.....

beco

It is just a relative reading because the infra red scanner cant quite do the job properly, it would take a lot of money to have the equipment to do it properly, but the relative values are valid enough. It shows that the IPV4 is waaaay oout. I have to set it at 310F to get a comparable vape to a DNA40 set at 420F

 

[bigbadrobby]

I may test the mods again but use the cotton scorch test

 

[sofarsogood]

I got a kangxin mini a few days ago, my first experience with TC. A dry cotton test at 420 did not burn but I didn't vary the temp upwards to see when it might start to burn. I'll have to do that with the next fresh build. But may be it's beside the point. I have temp control set to 500 F and 35-40 watts. I like the experience I'm getting and not drifting back to Kanthal builds. That perception could change of course.

Just now I put a dripper with a nickel build in the freezer. The Kangxin estimated the resistance of the frozen coil lower than when it was freshly built and at room temperature. That is predictble if the resistance of nickel is sensitive to +/- 10 degrees. So another way to test a TC mod might be to raise or lower the temperature of the atomizer by a known amount and see if the resistance found by the mod varies by the right amount from the reading at room temperature.

That has me thinking that TC mods must be able to read resistance to 3 decimal places (even though only 2 are displayed) otherwise how could they measure resistance accurately enough for +- 10 degrees?

In the mean time I'm enjoying the TC experience and glad to have it as an option.

 

[bigbadrobby]

Cotton usually starts to scorch at about 470F so 500F is a bit on the high side, but you wont taste the burn until you dry out the wick @sofarsogood


I have the Kangxin Mini as well and find it an excellent mod, very little difference between it and the DNA40.

 

[bigbadrobby]

One plus of the IPV4 is that you can adjust the temp 1 degree at a time, overkill? maybe

 

[BillW50]

Doesn't you IR temp prob display temperature? I have a really cheap "FlashPoint Infrared Thermometer dtxp3100" that is sold in hobby stores for measuring radio control gas engine temperature. But it works on anything. It can only read between -27ºF to 428ºF and reads the temperature one inch ahead of the lens. They cost 20 to 25 bucks and can fit on your key chain.

They also read coil temperature really well too. Although juiced and wicked, not a good idea. As an inch away and firing you have clouds of vapor and it blocks the IR. Plus the lens quickly gets coated with ejuice and that interferes with the reading as well. I only have three Heatvape Invader Mini for TC. But they are almost always within +/- 15ºF of the temperature setting. As for me, I am quite impressed.

I am not sure why people use 420ºF to test dry cotton? As dry cotton will only turn brown upwards of 550 to 600ºF. To cause dry cotton to burst into flames requires 728ºF if I recall correctly.

Now while I never tried this and I don't recommend anybody test this. But I could imagine if the wick was juiced with gasoline, the cotton would ignite at far lower temperatures and burn. Well kind of the same idea, but ejuice can ignite cotton at lower temps vs. dry too. I know this is true because when I changed my wick, I have seen black cotton (burnt) when I pull it out of the wicking using TC. And I know I never went over 450ºF. Yet it won't do this dry.

Before I got into TC, I have tasted cotton on fire twice before when I know the wick was juiced up (is that really nasty). This happened once at 6.5 watts and another at 4.5 watts on my Subtanks. I was chain mouth to lung vaping. And I know the vapor was nowhere near 500ºF when the cotton had ignited. And those Subtanks with the cotton burnt in half, leak like crazy. And I found that very interesting.

 

[bigbadrobby]

Yes it does show temperature but because the coil isn`t a large enough surface area it doesn`t read it at the true value, but still shows a comparative reading. Must look into the device you mentioned, first time I have heard of it. I`ve seen a lot of tests that start to show scorching (light) at 470F and below that if the device isn`t programmed correctly (displays an incorrect value) Like you, I am impressed with all of the chinese TC mods apart from the IPV4, but if you take into account that it is displaying a value about 100F out and allow for it, it is fine, just use a different reference point.

 

[BillW50]

Here is a website about the Infrared Thermometer - Duratrax FlashPoint Infrared Temperature Gauge At the bottom of the page you can find the manual for it under downloads.

 

[TheotherSteveS]

Doesn't you IR temp prob display temperature? I have a really cheap "FlashPoint Infrared Thermometer dtxp3100" that is sold in hobby stores for measuring radio control gas engine temperature. But it works on anything. It can only read between -27ºF to 428ºF and reads the temperature one inch ahead of the lens. They cost 20 to 25 bucks and can fit on your key chain.

They also read coil temperature really well too. Although juiced and wicked, not a good idea. As an inch away and firing you have clouds of vapor and it blocks the IR. Plus the lens quickly gets coated with ejuice and that interferes with the reading as well. I only have three Heatvape Invader Mini for TC. But they are almost always within +/- 15ºF of the temperature setting. As for me, I am quite impressed.

I am not sure why people use 420ºF to test dry cotton? As dry cotton will only turn brown upwards of 550 to 600ºF. To cause dry cotton to burst into flames requires 728ºF if I recall correctly.

Now while I never tried this and I don't recommend anybody test this. But I could imagine if the wick was juiced with gasoline, the cotton would ignite at far lower temperatures and burn. Well kind of the same idea, but ejuice can ignite cotton at lower temps vs. dry too. I know this is true because when I changed my wick, I have seen black cotton (burnt) when I pull it out of the wicking using TC. And I know I never went over 450ºF. Yet it won't do this dry.

Before I got into TC, I have tasted cotton on fire twice before when I know the wick was juiced up (is that really nasty). This happened once at 6.5 watts and another at 4.5 watts on my Subtanks. I was chain mouth to lung vaping. And I know the vapor was nowhere near 500ºF when the cotton had ignited. And those Subtanks with the cotton burnt in half, leak like crazy. And I found that very interesting.

errrr..if you juice it with gasoline, the gasoline vapor will burn not the cotton!!!!!!!!!

your dark wick is probably e-juice gunk and not burnt cotton...If you take the wick and run it under warm water the crud will mostly wash off! Come on, how can cotton wetted with a liquid like VG or PG possible be more susceptible to burning than when its dry. This makes absolutely no sense...

...and dry cotton will start to scorch around 450F...


and the expeiment you do with your IR gadget will, at best, let you know the average temperature of the vapour coming off the coil - whichj is a function of the boiling point of the liquid, not the coil temp or anything else...and i doubt it is that accurate anyway...

 

[tehmidcap]

In Busardo's review of the IPV4 it shows the temp to be quite precise?

On my IPV4 and IPV3 with the temperature set around 415 it will not burn cotton if I only press it until "dry coil" displays one time. I usually have mine set between 415-420 and if I'm vaping using an RDA and vape on it intentionally until it's dry, I'll only taste a slight hint of cotton on the last 2 or 3 hits (which are so miniscule that I can tell TC is kicking in and I would know it needs more liquid in practical situations) and if I keep vaping until it cuts off the cotton will not be browned at all.

And there seem to be conflicting opinions on what temperature cotton burns, according to some non-vape related research I've done on the internet the actual burning point of dry cotton is 410-415F... Yet two different people in this thread have said 450F and 470F.

In any case it really doesn't matter how precise your device is. Find a temperature that produces a good vape for you and will not burn your cotton and enjoy... There are a lot of variables at play.

 

[bigbadrobby]

From my point of view, that was part of what I was looking into @tehmidcap, the fact that probably none of the mods displays the correct temperature and they are all different. People put too much trust in the displayed temp and say, it`s not working correctly etc.

 

[Vooper]

I've dry burned cotton wicks with the IPV4 set to 420f without even scorching the cotton.

 

[bigbadrobby]

It`s strange, myself and another guy on the forum had the same result and the same effect when setting it to 420, burnt cotton. maybe a bad batch, who knows . But I do know that if i set it at 320F it performs the same as the other mods at 420F, and workd perfectly

 

[BillW50]

errrr..if you juice it with gasoline, the gasoline vapor will burn not the cotton!!!!!!!!!

your dark wick is probably e-juice gunk and not burnt cotton...If you take the wick and run it under warm water the crud will mostly wash off! Come on, how can cotton wetted with a liquid like VG or PG possible be more susceptible to burning than when its dry. This makes absolutely no sense...

...and dry cotton will start to scorch around 450F...


and the expeiment you do with your IR gadget will, at best, let you know the average temperature of the vapour coming off the coil - whichj is a function of the boiling point of the liquid, not the coil temp or anything else...and i doubt it is that accurate anyway...

Everything you say does makes sense. But from experience, it doesn't fit. I have one ejuice called MBV Dream Tea (now discontinued and I have about 10oz left of it) that is the most heat sensitive juice I ever ran across. I use to vape it under wattage (before I was into TC) at 6.5 watts. Higher it would caramelize, clog coils, and the flavor is weaker once this happens, the clear juice turns brown. Some ejuices this isn't a problem at all, so the color changes but it is still great as always. But with this juice, just the slightest caramelization dulls the flavor to nothing and it contaminates the rest of the juice in a matter of minutes.

I have vaped MBV Dream Tea in a dripper too. And I think of this like cheating, but the juice doesn't last long enough to cause a lot of damage. And even if the little juice in the dripper starts to caramelize, dripping just two fresh drops right on top of the coil gives you a fresh uncaramelized flavor again. But in a tank you are now screwed. This is the same juice that had burnt my cotton in half in a Subtank Mini at 4.5 watts (with mouth to lung hits). Under TC I have far more control and I have narrowed it down to 370ºF is totally safe with this ejuice. Any higher and all hell breaks loose. What is neat is just yesterday I refilled that Subtank Mini with the RBA and it is clean as a whistle in there. I checked on the nickel coil and changed the cotton just because. And now the hardest juice to use in the universe has been tamed.

Others are nothing near as bad. It was either Yeti Abbott Road or HazCap that burnt cotton at 6.5 watts with mouth to lung hits in a Subtank. Both are not super sensitive or anything to heat, but pretty much average. I never used Abbott Road under TC yet, but HazCap I have taken it to 450ºF and that seems fine. So I would guess it was Abbott Road that burnt cotton.

Yes, I normally rinse everything under the sink. Even the used cotton and coils too. And yes, I too have seen cotton turn black, brown, or whatever with many ejuices. But under a hot rinsing it all just washes away and the cotton turns pure white again. Although if the cotton itself turned brown or burned, it stays that way no matter how often you rinse it. Even scrubbing it still doesn't go away.

No, I haven't found any evidence yet that PG, VG, or even nicotine burns less than 500ºF. I don't know about nicotine, but I have read that PG burns before VG does. And I have no problems believing this at all. Plus I haven't had a problem with PG.VG, or nicotine burning at all. It is what is in the flavoring that becomes a problem. And from my experience some flavoring are really sensitive to heat and some are not. We experienced users knows about caramelization. Some ejuices are greatly effected by it and some doesn't (just the color changes and that is it, no big deal).

More commonly known is often found in ejuice comments are known as coil cloggers. Yes I am sure at some point, all ejuice will burn. But most of the claims are probably due to caramelization. And those that do will probably vape just fine just before caramelization. And some ejuices won't caramelize at all. Because they don't have the ingredients to cause caramelization.

And when you say dry cotton will scorch around 450ºF... really? My kitchen oven is pretty close when it comes to temperature and 450ºF is no problem for it. And you really think if I leave a wad of dry cotton in there say for an hour it will scorch? I seriously doubt it, but it is an experiment that I would try.

 

[TheotherSteveS]

From my point of view, that was part of what I was looking into @tehmidcap, the fact that probably none of the mods displays the correct temperature and they are all different. People put too much trust in the displayed temp and say, it`s not working correctly etc.

yup thats the problem. Instead of F or C we should basically use some arbitrtaty unit for these settings. At best the 'temperature' is 'inexact' shall we say. Problem is the T is derived from the measured resistance, not only of the coil but the static resistance of the whole elctrical path through the atty and this can change a lot. Dont forget, the temp coefficient curves are shallow in slope and very small error in R can make a big difference to T...Amazing it works atr all really