Clive Bates talks nicotine, harm reduction & public health

[VictorC]

Hear from Clive Bates, former executive director of Action on Smoking and Health, the UK’s leading group in the war against smoking. Bates says nicotine in e-cigarettes is an opportunity not a threat.

Elephant in the Room – Clive Bates Talks Nicotine, Harm Reduction & Public Health (Reg Watch)

 

[rokyo87]

"You told us to quit smoking. You taxed the pants off us; you've bullied us with your public information campaigns; you've racked up the stigma that we felt. You've tried to stop us using these products wherever we can. You've hit us with massive societal disapproval. tobacco companies haven't done that, government and public health have done that.

So we've done the right thing. We've got off smoking; we've protected our health; we produce a vapour which doesn't harm anyone; most people aren't troubled by it.

Just leave us alone! Just get off our backs!"

RESPECT TO CLIVE BATES! He was a tobacco Controller, he is very different from other so called Public Health "experts", he has compassion with smokers, he UNDERSTAND smokers. He deserves a full respect from all the vapers!

 

[sofarsogood]

"You told us to quit smoking. You taxed the pants off us; you've bullied us with your public information campaigns; you've racked up the stigma that we felt. You've tried to stop us using these products wherever we can. You've hit us with massive societal disapproval. Tobacco companies haven't done that, government and public health have done that.

So we've done the right thing. We've got off smoking; we've protected our health; we produce a vapour which doesn't harm anyone; most people aren't troubled by it.

Just leave us alone! Just get off our backs!"

RESPECT TO CLIVE BATES! He was a Tobacco Controller, he is very different from other so called Public Health "experts", he has compassion with smokers, he UNDERSTAND smokers. He deserves a full respect from all the vapers!

He sums up the attitude of vapers who used to be smokers. What I say is e-cigs will end the Tobacco Age. All governments need to do is nothing.

 

[Bill Godshall]

Since I began collaborating with Clive Bates in 1998 (when he was at ASH UK), I've found that we've agreed on virtually every tobacco/nicotine/smoking/vaping policy issue (and many other public policy issues as well).

We've been trying to convince other public health advocates to support THR products and policies for the past fifteen years.

Unfortunately, Big Pharma financed tobacco control extremists seized control of the anti smoking movement, turned it into an unethical and inhumane abstinence-only anti-THR crusade, and excluded THR advocates from their job openings, grants, list serves, meetings, conferences, journals, etc.

 

[DC2]

Unfortunately, Big Pharma financed tobacco control extremists seized control of the anti smoking movement, turned it into an unethical and inhumane abstinence-only anti-THR crusade, and excluded THR advocates from their job openings, grants, list serves, meetings, conferences, journals, etc.

I know you don't often get a chance to see and respond to questions...

But are the tobacco control extremists doing this because...
1) To keep their jobs
2) Because they hate Big Tobacco and believe their own lies about vaping
3) Because they truly believe nicotine is evil
4) Other

I imagine it's some percentage of each.
But I would SO love to hear your take on why this insanity even exists.

 

[VictorC]

There is a fear to loose cause/job/revenue across the "smoke-dependant" industry as we know it today. Not just governments, pharmas and insurance companies, but also lawyers, doctors, medical support workers, nurses, scientists, investors, etc. A lot of jobs are at risk if people quit smoking. What will happen if, all of a sudden, millions quit smoking, become healthier and live longer?

 

[Bill Godshall]

I know you don't often get a chance to see and respond to questions...

But are the tobacco control extremists doing this because...
1) To keep their jobs
2) Because they hate Big Tobacco and believe their own lies about vaping
3) Because they truly believe nicotine is evil
4) Other

The correct answer is 5) All of the Above

Their jobs pay and train them to hate Big Tobacco, believe their own lies about vaping, truly believe nicotine is evil, and many other things that pursue their policy goals (which are to ban vapor products, ban vaping, tax vapor, etc.)

Tobacco control conferences resemble religious revivals, where all tobacco/nicotine use (including vaping, but excluding NRT since Big Pharma is their financier) is a Sin,
Big Tobacco is Satan, and all tobacco/nicotine users (except Big Pharma NRT users) are Sinners.

Of course, Big Pharma's NRT is viewed and portrayed as lifesaving medicine, while tobacco controllers consider and portray themselves as Angels who are rescuing children from the grips of Satan and sin.

 

[DC2]

Of course, Big Pharma's NRT is viewed and portrayed as lifesaving medicine...

You'd think at some point cognitive dissonance would kick in.
The fact that they have somehow managed to avoid that is almost impressive.

I'd laugh, but I don't really find it funny.

I think it boils down to convincing themselves Vaping = Big Tobacco
That pretty much has to be the foundation that allows them to sleep at night.

And when I say "them" I mean the acolytes, not the orchestrators.
I'm sure the orchestartors sleep just fine at night.