Cloning Milk and Honey

[Liquidkam]

I had a bottle of M&H months ago 15ml 0MG Nic. I Vaped the whole bottle in a 14 hour day and loved every minute of it. Since then and up until now I have been reading this thread and haven't touched M&H. Today I just got in a 30Ml to taste again to see if I can help with this project. The first flavor that hit me after not touching it for a long time is banana cream. That has to be a large part of the recipe. I only recently got into mixing but have managed to put together a decent (I think) lab and I hope I can be of service and we can nail this down.



Good luck to all involved.

 

[oBen]

Waste of £15 getting ingredients then

 

[oBen]

I do hope we crack this case as my stock of steeped juice is getting low and I have no idea what to make as all I want is more m&h lol

 

[nicobeak]

Waste of £15 getting ingredients then

Give it a shot anyway and see how it tastes, it may be really good. Most of those flavorings will be used in a lot of other good recipes too.

 

[cheesebanana]

Got my stack of m&h cloning supplies today.

Gonna try and make a few off the cuff recipes tomorrow.

From a cursory initial sniff I feel like a combo of milk chocolate, banana cream, hazelnut and marshmallow might just hit all the right notes for me to be close enough. Maybe another cream of some sort in there.

I may be slightly optimistic.

Also whilst sniffing away I somehow got AP I my eye earlier today. I do not advise that.

 

[Liquidkam]

I am under the impression that there is some sort of sweetener in the mix. It seems overwhelmingly simple upon tasting it. Like banana cream, smooth, and super sweet. I think our brains invent crap sometimes and we make things taste like what we want them too. I don't get hazelnut or chocolate at all.

 

[cheesebanana]

While I still enjoy the last recipe I posted with the custards I wanted to try something without the graham. This is the recipe I had mentioned earlier removing the graham and adding the milk chocolate. The main reason I decided to try milk chocolate is that just thinking about vaping m&h just made me think that a nice silky light chocolate would do really good. I then had the idea that it could help the peanut butter in the recipe without being overpowering. So here is what I think is my final take on m&h for myself, for now . I'm really enjoying this one and it is definitely a good vape. For me in this I taste the marshmallow, peanut butter, banana, sometimes light vanilla, so I think the milk chocolate has worked itself in nicely with the peanut butter since I don't taste it by itself. That's just me tho so others tastes will vary.

TFA Marshmallow - 6%
TFA Cotton Candy - 5%
TFA Peanut Butter - 3%
TFA Milk Chocolate - 2%
TFA Vanilla Swirl - 2%
TFA Banana Cream - 2%

I think I'm going to take a break from actively working on the m&h recipes for a little while to give my senses a nice rest, maybe find something else to work on for a bit. I would like to thank everyone in this thread that I've communicated with, drlucky, c4m3120n, doubleewe, etc. Sharing ideas on flavors, recipes, techniques was a great learning experience. I'll definitely still be following the thread tho.

just mixed this up, shake n vape and its not far off at all. it really isn't. its definitely not identical but its damn close and its tasty to boot. gonna leave it for a bit and see how it goes.

 

[matrix961]

Glad you tried it cheesebanana, yeah definitely not identical but a good vape created in the process. I call it Banana PB Fluff.

Anyhow ive been thinking alot about actual m&h and the graham type note people seem to get from it. Im trying to find a good golden honey graham flavor. Just wondering if this might be a road to go down. If its right it could be the thing that could give the right graham note and also the "note of rich honey" in the description. Although most of us dont taste any honey by itself which is why im thinking of the golden honey graham or cereal type flavor. It has to be a true golden honey flavor with no floral notes. More like processed golden honey. I havent seemed to find anything close yet tho.

Although thinking about it sometimes i do think of graham when smelling this at times because of the PB mixed in. Even tho i left that out. Capella pb smells like it has a baked note to me. Im wondering how this might do in it.

 

[matrix961]

Just vaped a new original bottle after not having it for a long time. Boy was i surprised!!!

New recipe im working with now.

TFA Marshmallow 6%
TFA Cotton Candy 5%
TFA Banana Cream 2%
TFA Vanilla Swirl 2%
FW Hazelnut 2%
TFA Peanut Butter 1%
TFA Honey 1 Drop per 10ml. I used a dropper from an old 30ml bottle. This stuff is strong.

Definitely glad i decided to give the original a break for awhile. I definitely tasted the honey on exhale. Its so light its easy to miss if you vape this for awhile. I still get the PB but also hazelnut mixed in. The hazelnut also doesnt last long after vaping a bit but i can taste it every so often. I used FW hazelnut since its the only one i had but it works well. Its higher than the PB since the PB is much stronger. The PB seems to do well being lower. The honey note seems to be the same as the TFA brand from what i can tell. They are definitely using an added sweetener, something much sweeter than EM it seems. I can tell the difference, Its like the super sweetener in this booster i have.

I got a bottle steeping now but they smell the same so far.

Edit:
Will need to make a honey dilution most likely and use 1 drop from it. Even at 1 drop undiluted its just a bit too strong. Just tried a bit on my rda.

Update:
Getting the best results with 1 drop of honey dilution per 10ml (.1ml honey in 3ml PG). Yep, it's strong. It's noticeable when vaped, not necessarily when smelled from bottle. An extremely light touch is all that's needed. It's noticeable on exhale, just like what I'm experiencing in the original.

 

[cheesebanana]

g

Just vaped a new original bottle after not having it for a long time. Boy was i surprised!!!

New recipe im working with now.

TFA Marshmallow 6%
TFA Cotton Candy 5%
TFA Banana Cream 2%
TFA Vanilla Swirl 2%
FW Hazelnut 2%
TFA Peanut Butter 1%
TFA Honey 1 Drop per 10ml. I used a dropper from an old 30ml bottle. This stuff is strong.

Definitely glad i decided to give the original a break for awhile. I definitely tasted the honey on exhale. Its so light its easy to miss if you vape this for awhile. I still get the PB but also hazelnut mixed in. The hazelnut also doesnt last long after vaping a bit but i can taste it every so often. I used FW hazelnut since its the only one i had but it works well. Its higher than the PB since the PB is much stronger. The PB seems to do well being lower. The honey note seems to be the same as the TFA brand from what i can tell. They are definitely using an added sweetener, something much sweeter than EM it seems. I can tell the difference, Its like the super sweetener in this booster i have.

I got a bottle steeping now but they smell the same so far.

Edit:
Will need to make a honey dilution most likely and use 1 drop from it. Even at 1 drop undiluted its just a bit too strong. Just tried a bit on my rda.

Update:
Getting the best results with 1 drop of honey dilution per 10ml (.1ml honey in 3ml PG). Yep, it's strong. It's noticeable when vaped, not necessarily when smelled from bottle. An extremely light touch is all that's needed. It's noticeable on exhale, just like what I'm experiencing in the original.

gonna make up 10ml of that just now and see how it does. I only have TPA hazelnut but we shall see.

 

[matrix961]

Some additional notes:

The 1 drop per 10ml of honey dilution (.1ml to 3ml PG) seems to be just right. I'll have to confirm after some steep time tho. But at this point it seems right. My early RDA tests gave me the same very slight honey on exhale. I gotta say tho that the TFA Honey is an extremely efficient flavor in terms of quantity needed.

I'm also adding TFA Smooth starting at 1 drop per 5ml. There is something else that I can't totally identify but it's almost like a super light coconut or something. I thought of smooth since this basically smells like light coconut to me and could be used since smooth is used to round out flavors. It's now smelling more like the unidentified smell I'm getting from the original. I think 2 drops per 5ml would be max tho.

In early testing I'm noting that the hazelnut and vanilla swirl might need to be increased slightly. Either that or the marshmallow and cotton candy reduced a bit. Not sure if they could be masking some flavor or not. I'm going to wait until a week steep time is over tho since the flavors could come out more. I may just try to make up a test batch with the reduced marshmallow and cotton candy actually. Would be a good test to compare them in a week.

 

[matrix961]

Test 2 reworking the ingredients, reducing some and slightly increasing a few as well. This comes in at 18%.

TFA Marshmallow 4%
TFA Cotton Candy 3.5%
FW Hazelnut 3.5%
TFA Vanilla Swirl 3%
TFA Banana Cream 2%
TFA Peanut Butter 2%
TFA Honey Dilution 1 Drop per 10ml (.1ml honey in 4ml PG)
TFA Smooth 2 Drops per 5ml

The previous test 1 and this test 2 im going to steep and see how they turn out. I also diluted the honey a bit more as a test. Im interested in comparing the different strengths for these after steeping. The TFA Smooth is definitely the other smell i was getting or something similiar. First time using it and likely not the last, pretty interesting stuff. It adds sweetness as well so reducing the cotton candy was definitely needed.

Just by smell this still comes in a bit lighter in potency than the original bottle so im thinking there is still room for it to gain potency while steeping and if so not be overpowering. The original bottle i got last night is a redish amber so its been on the shelf awhile. We shall see.

 

[bartsteed]

Been following and reading this thread. I am a diy'er of 8 months and have become recently addicted to Milk&Honey...

I can say with certainty that Marshmallow is a primary ingredient. I have a 30mL bottle of 0mg and when I actually taste the juice liquid, it tastes like marshmallow cream. I will say that I also taste banana, as well as peanut butter and AP. I really think there is some sweet cream in there, too. Not sure about honey... My FA Honey smells like cat urine and I rarely ever use it. Obviously M&H doesn't smell like cat urine.

Ive got a few recipies in the works and am so looking forward to keeping this progress moving. Lets get somethong close or even better!!!

 

[ckquatt]

Been following and reading this thread. I am a diy'er of 8 months and have become recently addicted to Milk&Honey...

I can say with certainty that Marshmallow is a primary ingredient. I have a 30mL bottle of 0mg and when I actually taste the juice liquid, it tastes like marshmallow cream. I will say that I also taste banana, as well as peanut butter and AP. I really think there is some sweet cream in there, too. Not sure about honey... My FA Honey smells like cat urine and I rarely ever use it. Obviously M&H doesn't smell like cat urine.

Ive got a few recipies in the works and am so looking forward to keeping this progress moving. Lets get somethong close or even better!!!

The way we've been using the honey is how I read about it somewhere else. Make a 10% solution of it and PG. Its a lot more tame that way and more honey like.

 

[matrix961]

Bartsteed,

This is interesting to me when you say you have been tasting the 0mg version. I too started out with only 0mg a few months ago. I too get about the same flavor profile as you. Although I've never had AP, it wouldn't by chance be anything like almond would it? Because that's one flavor I imagined could be in there. I've always had a hard time tasting anything graham in it. Here's the interesting thing tho. I've now had the chance to taste a bottle with nic in it and for me it's like the whole profile changed.

Just smelling the bottle I still get peanut butter but with something else like hazelnut or could be almond. I also get this sickly sweet smell that's awful close to this smooth stuff from TFA. The best way to explain it is I can smell artificial sweetener, what I call super sweetener. I get this with some of the juices I have and if it's too much I tend to steer away from them. I never got this with the 0mg version, that I remember anyways.

I just looked at both new and an old empty bottle and the batch numbers are the same but the new bottle I can tell has been sitting on the shelf for awhile since it's a nice redish amber. I hate to suspect this but I'm wondering if this new bottle is at it's max life or something. It's definitely way different and it has this honey note now only on exhale. Can't detect it by just smelling the bottle. I also hate to think that the same juice is that inconsistent between 0mg and 3, 6, or 12mg. I know to expect the flavor to reduce with higher nic but not a profile change I would think.

Ckquatt,

I'm with you on the dilution, I'm testing an even lower dilution based on this new retail bottle with nic in it. At such a low dilution I can taste the honey on exhale. The other interesting thing is that I can have the wife smell the undiluted honey and she says "cat piss" but I have her smell the dilution and she says "I dunno, maybe honey?" LOL. Honey is one weird ... flavor.

To All,

I'm not sure on this new bottle with nic in it. The juice is still good but not what I remember from the 0mg version. To be honest I'd rather vape my last recipe without the honey dilution since it's closer to what I remember. I never actually tasted a honey note until now, even on exhale. I think it's time for me to order a new 0mg bottle and compare them. I still have most of the 3mg bottle left, this also throws up a red flag for me since it should have been gone already lol. I think I'll do a test 3 without the honey dilution to compare with test 1 & test 2 after a week.

I made a new recipe based on my one recipe a few pages back with CAP pb added as well as caramel. It's a much different profile but good. So still for me the cap pb while good just doesn't fit the m&h profile.

My next order will be some AP and maybe some almond to test with.

 

[ckquatt]

Bartsteed,

This is interesting to me when you say you have been tasting the 0mg version. I too started out with only 0mg a few months ago. I too get about the same flavor profile as you. Although I've never had AP, it wouldn't by chance be anything like almond would it? Because that's one flavor I imagined could be in there. I've always had a hard time tasting anything graham in it. Here's the interesting thing tho. I've now had the chance to taste a bottle with nic in it and for me it's like the whole profile changed.

Just smelling the bottle I still get peanut butter but with something else like hazelnut or could be almond. I also get this sickly sweet smell that's awful close to this smooth stuff from TFA. The best way to explain it is I can smell artificial sweetener, what I call super sweetener. I get this with some of the juices I have and if it's too much I tend to steer away from them. I never got this with the 0mg version, that I remember anyways.

I just looked at both new and an old empty bottle and the batch numbers are the same but the new bottle I can tell has been sitting on the shelf for awhile since it's a nice redish amber. I hate to suspect this but I'm wondering if this new bottle is at it's max life or something. It's definitely way different and it has this honey note now only on exhale. Can't detect it by just smelling the bottle. I also hate to think that the same juice is that inconsistent between 0mg and 3, 6, or 12mg. I know to expect the flavor to reduce with higher nic but not a profile change I would think.

Ckquatt,

I'm with you on the dilution, I'm testing an even lower dilution based on this new retail bottle with nic in it. At such a low dilution I can taste the honey on exhale. The other interesting thing is that I can have the wife smell the undiluted honey and she says "cat piss" but I have her smell the dilution and she says "I dunno, maybe honey?" LOL. Honey is one weird *** flavor.

To All,

I'm not sure on this new bottle with nic in it. The juice is still good but not what I remember from the 0mg version. To be honest I'd rather vape my last recipe without the honey dilution since it's closer to what I remember. I never actually tasted a honey note until now, even on exhale. I think it's time for me to order a new 0mg bottle and compare them. I still have most of the 3mg bottle left, this also throws up a red flag for me since it should have been gone already lol. I think I'll do a test 3 without the honey dilution to compare with test 1 & test 2 after a week.

I made a new recipe based on my one recipe a few pages back with CAP pb added as well as caramel. It's a much different profile but good. So still for me the cap pb while good just doesn't fit the m&h profile.

My next order will be some AP and maybe some almond to test with.

AP in small amounts will give you a nutty flavor, but BE CAREFUL with it. If you use to much it Makes it REALLY bready.

Like "drops per ml" and not as a percentage.

 

[bartsteed]

When I said "taste the juice" I meant it literally. Taste the liquid itself, without vaping it. It's almost as if it's a marshmallow liquid. I would only do this with 0mg though, as I'm sure the nic would offer some crude numbing sensation...

In terms of AP, yes - use with caution. Honestly, I've never used it over 1% in anything (and even that's a little high). I'd say a median would be about 0.5%.

AP (Acetyl Pyrazine 5% PG) really reminds me of a nutty grain taste (think plain cheerios but more dense). A little goes a long way.

 

[matrix961]

AP is making more sense to me now. Bartsteed, when you say like a nutty grain taste I can definitely imagine that with this other nuttiness I can smell in it. I just ordered some so I'll see how this turns out. The crazy part is I never detected this the first time around, it was always mostly straight peanut butter a few months ago.

I'm also noticing that this smooth flavor from tfa really does smooth things out. Maybe even a little too much at 2 drops per 5ml. I can definitely see a use for it with the TFA peanut butter tho, it does seem to take care of the dryer peanut taste. I'm planning on testing this out more but at lower amounts. I think I'll stick with 1 drop per 5ml.

Not sure what to do about this honey note on exhale with the original. I vaped it again and still get it from the original. It's not bad at all it's just strange how I never sensed it before. Still using the same RDA with dual coils @ .2 ohms set to 50 watts. Although I did have a thought that maybe it's me thinking something tastes like honey but it has the same taste as the diluted honey to me. I also fully clean my RDA (breaking down chuff top and all) when switching between the original and the recipe to avoid contamination issues (chuff tops collect a lot of juice on the inside). Gonna be stopping by the shop tomorrow to pick up another bottle, hopefully they have some in.

I'd like to know when this bottle was made. I'm wondering if I email cosmic fog with the batch number if they would tell me when it was made. Has anyone had a 3mg bottle that has gotten to a point of turning an actual redish amber and had it taste differently? I know the color is the NIC but it usually indicates a more lengthy time sitting doesn't it?

 

[matrix961]

Honeysuckle... I think this is what the honeyish taste and smell I'm experiencing could be. I made a test 3 using the recipe for the test 2 I did adding 5 drops to the 10ml batch, no regular honey added. Smells and tastes like what I'm getting in the original. I've never used honeysuckle in anything before so never had experience with it. Although similiar in taste on exhale to the honey dilution to me it's working much better in replicating the super light honey taste I'm getting at times. I'll be testing it more. I also did a search in this thread and it seems back in February a least one other suspected honeysuckle could be in this. It also seems to bring out a bit more nuttiness in the mixture. I need to test more to confirm this but that's what it seems like anyways.

I also think that bergamot could also be thought to be this smell and taste also, at a very low amount. I have both and they do seem to have this similar smell. I know nicobeak had a recipe a page back that used bergamot at a low percentage. Very interesting indeed.

 

[DoubleEwe]

Just wondering if any of you had tried using a Cereal Flavour instead of the Graham Cracker + Honey, it is just a thought, but it would cover those bases.
For example at the moment I am vaping OOO Baked Honey Oats, it gives both a sort of spicy biscuit (cookie) taste and a honey(ish) sweetness. It is a bit weak at the moment (3 weeks steep), so I would probably use a different manufacturer...

We don't get the range of flavourings here in the UK that you get over there, so I was thinking there could be a 'Honey nut loops' or 'Honey nut cornflakes' style flavouring from either TFA or FW (or another widely used company) that would be worth trying (if you possess it).

As I said, it is just an idea, so don't hunt me down if it doesn't work out.