company set to prove e-cigs are safe
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Excellent. I look forward to reading the final report, which I suspect might vary slightly from the report of a more biased, money-under-the-table type of study. Though I can't imagine any reputable organization doing such a thing........ 
It's a press release, not a news article. It mentions a "recent medical study in South Africa" but then refers to the "survey results". No description of the sample size. No description of what the "study" involved, other than presumably anecdotal evidence of smoking cessation rates.
I'd imagine that any consumer would be rightly skeptical if a major tobacco company said they had "independent laboratory" tests that showed no harmful chemicals in their cigarettes. I can't believe anyone would trust the results of the tests NuCig says they've requested, any more than they'd believe the "medical study" that was supposedly conducted in South Africa.
This is an e-cig supplier's promotional statement. Take a look at some of the other "news" releases at the bottom of the page:
I'd imagine that any consumer would be rightly skeptical if a major tobacco company said they had "independent laboratory" tests that showed no harmful chemicals in their cigarettes. I can't believe anyone would trust the results of the tests NuCig says they've requested, any more than they'd believe the "medical study" that was supposedly conducted in South Africa.
This is an e-cig supplier's promotional statement. Take a look at some of the other "news" releases at the bottom of the page:
- September, 24 - Electronic Cigarettes Can Save Small Businesses In The Recession
- October, 1 - UK Electronic Cigarette Company Launch Unique Monthly Cartridge Refill Subscription
Eric - While I am in agreement with you that a non-vested interest study would ultimately carry greater weight across the board... we cannot forget that a majority of all clinical trials and studies done for products seeking approval, not to mention all of the products that have received approval, are paid for by the companies seeking approval. Every drug in your medicine cabinet, had studies paid for and done by the makers of said drug.
Now... that said, THIS is why it is so important that consumers start participating and donating to organizations like Right To Vape - Index and Spikey's Vapers Clubs so that non-biased, non-vested interest, consumer protection focused studies and tests are done.
Even the study they mention in South Africa was funded by a manufacturer. The New Zealand study was funded by a manufacturer. However, it also matters the name of the lab and their credentials.
For instance, Exponent, one of the FDA's top choice labs in the US for it's quality and scientific honor, was used by nJoy to dispute the FDA's report. Companies like Exponent and Dr's like Laugessen (New Zealand) are not going to put their names out on something that their peers will review and dismiss. In the scientific community, it is all about peer review.
Now... that said, THIS is why it is so important that consumers start participating and donating to organizations like Right To Vape - Index and Spikey's Vapers Clubs so that non-biased, non-vested interest, consumer protection focused studies and tests are done.
Even the study they mention in South Africa was funded by a manufacturer. The New Zealand study was funded by a manufacturer. However, it also matters the name of the lab and their credentials.
For instance, Exponent, one of the FDA's top choice labs in the US for it's quality and scientific honor, was used by nJoy to dispute the FDA's report. Companies like Exponent and Dr's like Laugessen (New Zealand) are not going to put their names out on something that their peers will review and dismiss. In the scientific community, it is all about peer review.
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How do you think big pharma does it? I seriously doubt all of their studies are truly objective, and yet they still seem to hold water with the FDA.
It looks to me like the people at NuCig are just playing the same game.
And moving a step further... the industry is so new. Imagine if we didn't have manufacturers subsidizing studies. What science would we have?
It is up to the manufacturers to present the initial studies on products and then for other groups, to come in and do their own comparative studies. For example, the National Cancer Institute is currently evaluating their results for an ecig study on how much nicotine the user is getting. This, will in turn, be compared to the study as presented by Dr. Laugessen and then more studies will sprout.
The manufacturers provide us a baseline. It is the manufacturers willingness to take follow up studies and improve the quality of their products that make a manufacturer either a "game player" or an "innovator".
IMHO, for the industry to survive, the manufacturers will do unlike the tobacco industry and with every study that comes out, they will take the flaws of their products as constructive criticism and fix them. Removal of DEG and TSNA's from product is not impossible and good manufacturers should be working hard to fix these issues.
Crap. Could you imagine in a year from now we have liquids that are 100% free from DEG and TSNA's? Even the NRT's can't say that and let's face it, they have known that TSNA's are in their products for years... or they would have openly told consumers and they have not.
Another reference with no link to the actual medical study that was not a true medical study regarding the Twisp product. Referring to the findings of a focus group with out links to the "study" is evidence this was a marketing study, not a medical study. Even the authors of the Twisp paper admit the study was not a true study.
Sorry to be a downer...
Sorry to be a downer...
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Even the press release itself is nothing if not vague. If anything, it's careless use of language by those who seek to be accepted as legitimate that will provide ammunition to their opponents.
From the press release: "It is because of these promising study results that UK electronic cigarette retailer cheapelectroniccigarettes.co.uk have taken the step of requesting independent laboratory tests from all their suppliers. NUCIG have already complied and the full results are expected before Christmas."
Tests of what? The atomizers? The batteries? The liquids?
Heck, you only have to read some of the posts in various threads here to know that there's plenty of evidence that consistency in manufacturing is lacking. Atomizers that don't work or that fail within a week of first use. Batteries that don't hold a charge. Liquids that have an odd color compared to the same type and brand purchased earlier. Reports of dizziness, lethargy, etc., from experienced users who have ordered the same product before.
This is a new industry and one I really hope will grow into one that's reliable and accepted for all the benefits it can provide. Right now, though, the quality and reliability of the e-cigs is hit or miss, and when every part but the empty cartridge is guaranteed to fail in a short time it suggests that it's not an industry that's spent much time developing a reliable product. There's no trustworthy source of information about the purity of the ingredients of the liquids or the stringency with which they're made or mixed. We all purchase and use these products, accepting the finite life of the electronic components as a given and hoping that the liquid we vaporize is free of impurity. The best information we have to base our decisions on comes from the community of vapers who post in this forum; to be honest, that's what I based my initial purchase on and what I'll probably continue to rely on, not some e-cig supplier who makes ambiguous claims about its product supposedly supported by a lab's findings.
So one company takes a sample of its liquid to a lab and says "tell us if there's anything other than nicotine and glycol in here". What does that prove? Nothing. It doesn't tell me that the next bottle sold has the same ingredients, or even that the claims for nicotine levels in the liquid are accurate.
To make a claim in a press release that "UK Electronic Cigarette Company Set To Prove Ecigarettes Are Safe" is absurd. If I hear that the London Times or the Guardian purchased 100 samples of the product at random times and paid a laboratory to analyse the ingredients and quantify the nicotine level consistency, I might say it's a step in the right direction. But with hundreds of suppliers providing competing products, I'd never extrapolate that to a blanket statement about the "safety" of the product industry-wide.
From the press release: "It is because of these promising study results that UK electronic cigarette retailer cheapelectroniccigarettes.co.uk have taken the step of requesting independent laboratory tests from all their suppliers. NUCIG have already complied and the full results are expected before Christmas."
Tests of what? The atomizers? The batteries? The liquids?
Heck, you only have to read some of the posts in various threads here to know that there's plenty of evidence that consistency in manufacturing is lacking. Atomizers that don't work or that fail within a week of first use. Batteries that don't hold a charge. Liquids that have an odd color compared to the same type and brand purchased earlier. Reports of dizziness, lethargy, etc., from experienced users who have ordered the same product before.
This is a new industry and one I really hope will grow into one that's reliable and accepted for all the benefits it can provide. Right now, though, the quality and reliability of the e-cigs is hit or miss, and when every part but the empty cartridge is guaranteed to fail in a short time it suggests that it's not an industry that's spent much time developing a reliable product. There's no trustworthy source of information about the purity of the ingredients of the liquids or the stringency with which they're made or mixed. We all purchase and use these products, accepting the finite life of the electronic components as a given and hoping that the liquid we vaporize is free of impurity. The best information we have to base our decisions on comes from the community of vapers who post in this forum; to be honest, that's what I based my initial purchase on and what I'll probably continue to rely on, not some e-cig supplier who makes ambiguous claims about its product supposedly supported by a lab's findings.
So one company takes a sample of its liquid to a lab and says "tell us if there's anything other than nicotine and glycol in here". What does that prove? Nothing. It doesn't tell me that the next bottle sold has the same ingredients, or even that the claims for nicotine levels in the liquid are accurate.
To make a claim in a press release that "UK Electronic Cigarette Company Set To Prove Ecigarettes Are Safe" is absurd. If I hear that the London Times or the Guardian purchased 100 samples of the product at random times and paid a laboratory to analyse the ingredients and quantify the nicotine level consistency, I might say it's a step in the right direction. But with hundreds of suppliers providing competing products, I'd never extrapolate that to a blanket statement about the "safety" of the product industry-wide.
Eric,
All very, very valid points. The industry is listening, as it is a goal, at least for some (hopefully all) that batch testing and quality improvements be made and eventually, perfected.
For now, you are completely correct that the forums are a wealth of knowledge and consumers should be visiting them regularly to ensure that the companies providing them with their products, are up to par. It is also important that suppliers listen to consumers and take their concerns to the next level, not just passing them off as a complaint, but a warning. Suppliers are the direct connection to the manufacturers and have the ability to change either what they are receiving from the manufacturer or do business elsewhere.
I do hope, being in the industry, that the progress made thus far, and IMHO there has been some very good progress, is evidence that the industry is on the right track. But... proof is in the pudding so to say and compared to what we were just a few months ago, I expect the industry to grow by leaps and bounds in the next few months.
All very, very valid points. The industry is listening, as it is a goal, at least for some (hopefully all) that batch testing and quality improvements be made and eventually, perfected.
For now, you are completely correct that the forums are a wealth of knowledge and consumers should be visiting them regularly to ensure that the companies providing them with their products, are up to par. It is also important that suppliers listen to consumers and take their concerns to the next level, not just passing them off as a complaint, but a warning. Suppliers are the direct connection to the manufacturers and have the ability to change either what they are receiving from the manufacturer or do business elsewhere.
I do hope, being in the industry, that the progress made thus far, and IMHO there has been some very good progress, is evidence that the industry is on the right track. But... proof is in the pudding so to say and compared to what we were just a few months ago, I expect the industry to grow by leaps and bounds in the next few months.
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This bickering is giving me a headache. There will always be nay-sayers, there will always be cheerleaders.
No matter who commissions a study, someone will point out agendas. I posted a thread a week or so ago challenging college chemistry students or grad students to get studies done on their campuses. Their responce was there is no interest in it because most universities are trying to get $$ from the government or private industry, so again, agendas. Also they stated that pg, nicotine and the other constituents of e-cig are all old hat, studies done for over 40 years so no one wants to redo the past.
I want to start seeing people look out for each other again. The more everyone around me prospers the more I prosper. The more we, as indivduals, start caring about our families, neighbors, people in our own cities, and the world, the more we will again be able to trust the intentions of governments and industry alike.
The government, industry, organizations, groups can not fix anything or control anything on any kind of large scale. The power has always been and always will be with the individual and that one persons intentions.
It starts today, with you and with me. With each thing you do, with each word you say, are your intentions to build up or tear down? Are your intentions to serve and promote what works or what doesn't work. Are your intentions to enrich the lives of poeple around you or to continue stirring up the b*llsh**?
If your vap'n is satisfying to you and enhancing your life, go for it. Stock up! Learn all you can about DIY. It will not matter what the government does or doesn't due about it.
If your thoughts turn to frustration over a nanny state or someone giving you a stare that the grocery store. Let it go and remind yourself you are saving your life. Which is more important?
No matter who commissions a study, someone will point out agendas. I posted a thread a week or so ago challenging college chemistry students or grad students to get studies done on their campuses. Their responce was there is no interest in it because most universities are trying to get $$ from the government or private industry, so again, agendas. Also they stated that pg, nicotine and the other constituents of e-cig are all old hat, studies done for over 40 years so no one wants to redo the past.
I want to start seeing people look out for each other again. The more everyone around me prospers the more I prosper. The more we, as indivduals, start caring about our families, neighbors, people in our own cities, and the world, the more we will again be able to trust the intentions of governments and industry alike.
The government, industry, organizations, groups can not fix anything or control anything on any kind of large scale. The power has always been and always will be with the individual and that one persons intentions.
It starts today, with you and with me. With each thing you do, with each word you say, are your intentions to build up or tear down? Are your intentions to serve and promote what works or what doesn't work. Are your intentions to enrich the lives of poeple around you or to continue stirring up the b*llsh**?
If your vap'n is satisfying to you and enhancing your life, go for it. Stock up! Learn all you can about DIY. It will not matter what the government does or doesn't due about it.
If your thoughts turn to frustration over a nanny state or someone giving you a stare that the grocery store. Let it go and remind yourself you are saving your life. Which is more important?
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