Consistency ?

[maxx]

Is this e-cig thing ever going to stabalize and show some consistency? Seems like every 3 months the flavors change or the hardware changes. I have given up on buying e-liquid since every batch is different, and plan to move to DIY when my Kant supply runs dry (sometime in late 2011). But now the batteries are being a PITA too. In 10 months I have seen 4 generations of the auto shortie....all different in terms of operation and airflow. Below are two pics showing how they differ in size and coupling.

Of those 4, only two are worth a damn. The first is too airy....and the last most recent model has so hard a draw to activate, that the golfball and garden hose joke comes to mind. Near impossible to use. Now my happy place in this e-cig thing is white auto shortie to simulate smoking...and I was in that happy place with the second and third generation. Now I have the garden hose ones and am not in my happy place anymore. I have had to up my real cigarette intake per day to handle the frustration of trying to get my eyeball back in it's socket from super-sucking.

Now I understand this a new technology and ther will be bugs and high failure rates. But this constant "new and improved model next month" stuff is getting annoying. Especially since new and improved tends to bounce out old and reliable. So I ask....at what point do manufacturers and vendors stop and say, "That's it....we'll stop there. The people are happy." I been at this for almost a year now, and I am no closer to settling in than I was in month number 1. What gives.....?

 

[Vapor Prince]

So I ask....at what point do manufacturers and vendors stop and say, "That's it....we'll stop there. The people are happy." I been at this for almost a year now, and I am no closer to settling in than I was in month number 1. What gives.....?

I will let the forum respond to most of the post, with the exception of this quote - Where do we stop and say good enough??? NEVER is the answer - What I can say is I personally went to China with Steve in November to get closer to fixing consistency issues in our batteries, and innovate things that have never been seen in the industry - have we been promising this for a while - yes - is it happening a tad slower than we ALL want - YES... but will there be point where we settle for "so-so" - NOPE, NEVER, WONT happen.

All I can ask is that you continue to be patient and when we do launch our new lines, new batteries, etc... you will not be upset. If you venture away, you will be missed sorely, but we will always keep a light out on the porch for you hoping you'll return.

Thanks~
Dave

 

[maxx]

Ummm.....OK. Interesting.....

 

[Sallyem]

I appreciate what both Maxx and Dave are saying. In my experience the last several XL batteries I have purchased are PITA
compared to the older batteries. I vape manuals, and the problems seem to be with the buttons. Two of my newest batteries
are so inconsistant, that at one moment I am ready to give up on them as lost causes, and then the next day they work
pretty good, and then you have to push the button up to eight times before it works!! I would order more (I already have
fifteen batteries) but I think I should wait until they get another or a better manufacturer. It is frustrating!! But I love
V4L...and I am not going anywhere. My ailing batts are more than 45 days old...they go on rotation, so don't see much
use....but too old to replace. I hope things get better quickly.

 

[jeffree]

Maxx, I'm nowhere near as frustrated as you are since I'm using 7-month old batts, and I'm new to CCarts. So all's been fairly stable in my house once I found a good workaround for my VG fix.

But I've had the same thought. I even notice the tension in some threads between the give me new and give me more! crowd and the stop changing things so darned much! guys like you--and me. It's gotta be a tightrope walk for firms like V4L, and I can see them making efforts in both directions.

At some point, though, I agree that the innovation needs to give way to more consistency. Once we've tried enough stuff, we want things to be as predictable as that cursed cig brand we trusted for decades, right? There was no walking out of 7/11 wondering about the MLs. Well, here's hoping! If any place can get it right, V4L's the one.

 

[maxx]

Jeffree....all I know is that 6 months ago things were perfect in terms of juice and hardware. Now I have neither and back to square one on buying and testing. Not sure I really want to do that. And I certainly don't want to do it a third time when things change again after that. I was aware that this business involved inovation....but not at this rate.

 

[jeffree]

Yeah, but you're one of my favorite people here. Always have been. So leaving ain't an option. Sorry.

 

[maxx]

Not to put too fine a point on it.....but I never initially said anything about leaving V4L entirely. Dave brought that up....

But in that reply, I see that V4L has set a course that might not be for me. I'm not interested in being part of some pioneering effort, even if such a thing is laudable. I just want to save money, replace cigarettes and blow vapor at anti-smokers. I'm a simple guy....

 

[jtcaseyjr]

Im with you maxx. I vape to save money period. I have had a couple of bad batteries as of late, but V4L took care of me right away. I work in Retail Electronics and as much as I hate to say this, when your working with electronics it is continual change and "innovation" I really wish all manufactures of all electronics would stop "innovating" and start "perfecting" what they already have. I would rather have a good solid product then a latest and greatest innovating one.

 

[Beachlover]

I am new to V4L...only a few weeks in and have 3 styles of batteries. Of the 3 styles I only hate 1 of them but regardless I have tried other ecigs and V4L is the only one that has had me stick with one vendor...V4L is the best! I am happy that V4L keeps trying to improve their product and though there may be a few snags along the way V4L values our opinions and keeps trying to give us the very best! V4L has a lifetime customer in me...I am so happy I found them!

 

[leeshor]

Interesting discussion. Reminds me of the iPhone. How you ask? Everyone loved the first one, then they came out with a new 3G version and everyone who bought the original was super ticked off and felt they got stiffed. Then they came out with the iPhone 4 and had both of the first 2 groups ticked off. Some people have bought all three and will probably buy the next version because it too will be better.

Aint technology great?

 

[samsmom]

I totally agree with you Sallyem - I have one XL that is very inconsistent - it has to be in the button/switch, because sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I have 2 other XLs that work just fine, so I only use it as a backup. I think it's too old to replace now - I'll have to look back on my invoice and see, but all said and done I love V4L and I'm hanging on for the long run!

I appreciate what both Maxx and Dave are saying. In my experience the last several XL batteries I have purchased are PITA
compared to the older batteries. I vape manuals, and the problems seem to be with the buttons. Two of my newest batteries
are so inconsistant, that at one moment I am ready to give up on them as lost causes, and then the next day they work
pretty good, and then you have to push the button up to eight times before it works!! I would order more (I already have
fifteen batteries) but I think I should wait until they get another or a better manufacturer. It is frustrating!! But I love
V4L...and I am not going anywhere. My ailing batts are more than 45 days old...they go on rotation, so don't see much
use....but too old to replace. I hope things get better quickly.

 

[phishtraveler]

I hear what you are saying maxx. I brought up some of the same points with my battery post a few weeks ago. I have only been vaping since August, 2010 and I have bought 5 batteries so far (not a lot at all by some standards lol!). After examining them, I have two white auto standards that have *2* air holes....really tight draw. One manual standard and one manual auto that have *3* air holes and great airflow/draw, and finally the last manual standard has *4* air holes...almost no draw...a bit TOO airy. ALL of this change/innovation is in the small span of 4 months!

If there are new products coming that will give me longer lasting batteries and a better vaping experience, I AM IN! But I would hope they would keep the 3 air hole batteries in stock, too since they work so well!

 

[2Packsaday]

Until the consistency is worked out, the only customers that will be satisfied are the do-it-yourselfers. If the batteries are too airy I plug up a hole or two with household glue. If they don't thread correctly, I sand them down. If the holes are too small, I drill larger ones. Then, I always clean them just enough to get the right draw. Fortunately, I have a large shop in the basement and lots of tools.

V4L will never be mainstream company until the quality and consistency is worked out. Most average consumers will not put up with these issues. Me and my friends just happen to be handy and will continue to order and modify as needed. What choice do we have?

 

[scott58]

They have been changing alot longer then 4 months. I use to order alot, but not anymore. Threw them a bone last week on some blank carts and a couple bottles of juice, but won't order anymore batteries or hardware from them. To bad really, but they made their choices on how they will run their business.

 

[maxx]

The interesting thing about it is that all of the companies in this business have missed something. We are all habitual people. Smokers have a habit. Now a habit , by it's very nature, tends to fly in the face of change and inovation when you think about it. Constant change is not habitual. Yet, at all of the vendor sites, you see claims of the latest and greatest...and striving for even more.

If I was starting in the biz I think I would advertise something like "We know smokers are creatures of habit, so we will strive to maintain a level of consistency like smokers are used to."

So there....I just gave a free piece of marketing advice.

 

[Sallyem]

Interesting discussion. Reminds me of the iPhone. How you ask? Everyone loved the first one, then they came out with a new 3G version and everyone who bought the original was super ticked off and felt they got stiffed. Then they came out with the iPhone 4 and had both of the first 2 groups ticked off. Some people have bought all three and will probably buy the next version because it too will be better.

Aint technology great?

I understand your point. However, in my experience the "new" isn't as good as the old. If they go to "mods" and different cartos, etc., I am afraid my bank account will be unable to keep up. I hope they keep stocking items for the
people they have served for the past year.

 

[Maxwell_Edison]

If any place can get it right, V4L's the one.

I agree with that bro. I don't know that it would be any different elsewhere. It's a new technology as you pointed out Maxx, and a lot of stores say as much in their terms and refuse to offer warranties or replacements of any kind. It's a predictable phase I think, and on the other side awaits a better PV, but I'm very happy with the 3 hole batteries they're selling now, both manual and auto. I never tried the old batts I hear so much about, so I can't make a comparison, but I'm damn near in heaven with my vaping experience.

 

[JenJen]

I guess maybe it depends on your preferance? To me the batteries have gotten better and better, but I almost exclusively use the xl manuals. I don't care for the autos and I didn't care for the shorties. Have I gotten some bum batteries - of course, but only a few.

All I know is that my experience has improved ten fold since I started vaping with v4L over a year ago and Steve does his utmost to keep making it better. I am sure that will result in a few flops here or there, but I am hanging with him. And I know if I got a new design of battery that was too hard or too light on the draw, I would be asking for them to send me an older type and letting them know I didn't care for the new design and why. They can't fix what they don't know is wrong. Add to that the fact that some people like a harder draw and some people like a lighter draw... at least they are are trying to make us all happy!

 

[2Packsaday]

One of the major reasons why so many new customers are drawn to V4L is because of the endless variety of battery colors, lengths, LED colors, and logos. New customers love the endless variety of flavors. Of course, all the charger types, carrying cases and colors of carrying cases. Once an established customer figures out their mainstay, they just want the same thing over and over.

The problem is all the combinations that a small company has to deal with. Here is a partial list:

batteries (lengths x colors x (LEDs/Logos)
carts (flavors x strengths x prem/wow)
Juice (flavors x strengths x prem/wow)
Accessories (Chargers & Cases x Colors)

This equals more than 2000 items to stock and maintain some level of consistency and quality.

The advantage that V4L uses in order to draw in so many new customers, is the very reason why existing customers can't rely on their mainstay products to be in stock and be assured of quality. As I see it, V4L can continue to develop new flavors, new devices and new carts to "improve" [Change] their products which will probably help to draw in new customers. Or, they can adopt the idea that the endless variety of new products and changes may actually hinder their growth by alienating their long time customers and frustrating their new customers.

From my experience of over a year of dealing with them, I believe that Steve likes creating new stuff more than anything else. And, it is up to the staff to try to keep up....