I mix 12mg of Menthol with a 0mg light tasting Tea or Blueberry and don't heat it too much (just a few taps on the button) and puff like on a pipe with a small throat inhale after a few seconds and it is a lot like a light menthol cigarette.
Constant headache and spaciness
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It would be more actually. one "red" cigarette got 20mg (200mg a total 1 package) but our body can only absorb max 1mg nicotine from 20mg. So the same goes for vaping. 24mg as i vape may seem much it's not. (its about equal to 1 1/2 pack a day, of "reds")
So in your case you're not getting as much as you tend to believe. But i'd suggest to try lower anyway just to be sure. But it does realy seems that you're getting to little. Read the link i posted on page 1.
Are we sure it isn't TOO LITTLE nicotine, basically withdrawal? 12 mg isn't much for a recent convert. I don't know what flavor you are vaping, but some flavors have 'artifical" throat hit caused by flavoring. If you had been vaping a long time I would think OD, but this sounds like withdrawal to me. It takes about 35 minutes of vaping to get the same nicotine from 5 minutes of smoking. That's using 18 mg e juice. See the study here Nicotine absorption from electronic cigarette use: comparison between first and new-generation devices : Scientific Reports : Nature Publishing Group
If it was too much nicotine the chances are you would have a lot of other symptoms along with the headache, including palpitations, rapid pulse, nervousness or anxiety, difficulty sleeping... and stuff like that. Headaches are a known problem when quitting smoking. I had a dull, chronic headache when quitting for about two weeks and I was using 24 mg nic at the time. Too much nic had nothing to do with it.
See here and see if anything makes sense regarding your symptoms: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/health-safety-e-smoking/3305-list-symptoms-when-quitting-tobacco-changing-ecigarette.html
There is also a possibility you are having an allergic reaction to PG or a flavor ingredient in your liquid. See Lori's blog regarding PG allergy symptoms: E-Cigarette Forum - FL Lori - Blogs
See here and see if anything makes sense regarding your symptoms: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/health-safety-e-smoking/3305-list-symptoms-when-quitting-tobacco-changing-ecigarette.html
There is also a possibility you are having an allergic reaction to PG or a flavor ingredient in your liquid. See Lori's blog regarding PG allergy symptoms: E-Cigarette Forum - FL Lori - Blogs
It does sound a lot like nicotine withdrawal, actually. For a fact, "spaciness" is one of my number 1 withdrawal symptoms, always has been and probably always will be. I think it's because your body, your habituated behavior, is saying "time for a smoke." When you're quitting, you have to exert conscious control over that habit, to tell it no, do this instead. So it does take away from your conscious mind, to always have to use some part of that conscious mind to remind yourself not to smoke. You may not realize you're doing that, but in fact you are -- because if you didn't exert that conscious control, habit would just have you lighting up.
There's a reason that minds work as they do, forming habits so easily. That's so that you DON'T HAVE TO exert any conscious thought to do something -- once a habit is formed, it just happens "automatically." Changing or breaking any habit REQUIRES conscious thought. It's just like when you were first learning to drive a car. It seemed very hard, because there were so many things to do all at once. But, once you have learned the basic operation of the vehicle, you no longer have to think about each thing you do to operate it, you just do it automatically, so that your conscious mind is freed up to pay attention to the road and traffic.
Also, apparently nicotine is sometimes use to enhance cognitive function; it seems to 'sharpen' one's focus on the task at hand.
I believe headache may in itself be a symptom of nicotine withdrawal, because nicotine (or at least, *something* in cigarette smoke) constricts blood vessels; if you remove some or all of that nicotine (or whatever it is), blood vessels dilate, which is the exact physical reason for migraines -- which is why caffeine or something similar is nearly always prescribed or suggested for migraine headaches.
But, beyond the physical reason for the headache, there's all that unaccustomed conscious control of your habit, changing your habit, and this will also lead to headaches, the "tension headache" variety.
I am definitely not one to suggest high levels of nicotine, because I am phobic about nausea/vomiting, however, in this case I would have to say that a bit more nicotine could probably relieve at least a good portion of those two symptoms. But care is needed, because too much will have other unpleasant symptoms, that generally start with dizziness, sharp abdominal pains (feels like gas actually), then nausea, perhaps ........, and even vomiting if you way-overmedicate.
Andria
There's a reason that minds work as they do, forming habits so easily. That's so that you DON'T HAVE TO exert any conscious thought to do something -- once a habit is formed, it just happens "automatically." Changing or breaking any habit REQUIRES conscious thought. It's just like when you were first learning to drive a car. It seemed very hard, because there were so many things to do all at once. But, once you have learned the basic operation of the vehicle, you no longer have to think about each thing you do to operate it, you just do it automatically, so that your conscious mind is freed up to pay attention to the road and traffic.
Also, apparently nicotine is sometimes use to enhance cognitive function; it seems to 'sharpen' one's focus on the task at hand.
I believe headache may in itself be a symptom of nicotine withdrawal, because nicotine (or at least, *something* in cigarette smoke) constricts blood vessels; if you remove some or all of that nicotine (or whatever it is), blood vessels dilate, which is the exact physical reason for migraines -- which is why caffeine or something similar is nearly always prescribed or suggested for migraine headaches.
But, beyond the physical reason for the headache, there's all that unaccustomed conscious control of your habit, changing your habit, and this will also lead to headaches, the "tension headache" variety.
I am definitely not one to suggest high levels of nicotine, because I am phobic about nausea/vomiting, however, in this case I would have to say that a bit more nicotine could probably relieve at least a good portion of those two symptoms. But care is needed, because too much will have other unpleasant symptoms, that generally start with dizziness, sharp abdominal pains (feels like gas actually), then nausea, perhaps ........, and even vomiting if you way-overmedicate.
Andria
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Because the delivery systems are so different, and indeed the vaporization of the nicotine and where absorption occurs is so different, there is almost no correlation between the amount of nicotine you get from a cigarette and the amount you get from vaping. And the discrepancy can go either way, depending on individual physiology, your hardware and the way you vape. Just about every newbie makes this fundamental mistake, trying to equate cigarette consumption with vaping in some way.
What you're describing, td1962, sounds more like lack of hydration than anything else. My water intake about doubled when I started vaping. And that's water, not other fluids (coffee, tea, soda, milk, fruit juices, adult beverages), most if not all contain dessicants and/or diuretics. You need much more water in your system, and the others actually remove water to a greater or lesser degree.
I'd strongly consider this as a factor inducing your symptoms, too. When I started vaping, I quickly discovered that 24 mg./ml. wasn't cutting it. I jacked up the Vitamin N to 32 mg./ml. for a while. Then I fairly soon dropped to 16 mg./ml., at which concentration I remain today. I've tried 12 mg./ml., but that's too low for me. For what it's worth, which is almost nothing, I had been smoking three packs per day of Marlboro Ultra Lights.
Everyone is different. You'll just have to keep experimenting.
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Don't know if this was mentioned, but a co-worker that I got started complained of headaches. I told him to make sure de drinks water, dropped his nicotine level and he says it's all good now.
AND her suffer migraines. I remember that the first couple of weeks, I was getting headaches and the first few days seemed light headed, but I believe that's just withdrawal.
AND her suffer migraines. I remember that the first couple of weeks, I was getting headaches and the first few days seemed light headed, but I believe that's just withdrawal.
How are you today td?
Hack/Cough
You've gotten a few responses suggesting you go to a higher VG ratio.
While inhalation technique has a lot to do with the hacking you're experiencing PG can also be a prime contributor.
For your inhalation focus on short duration draws from your PV.
Draw into your mouth and then draw into your lungs.
If this doesn't help ease the coughing with the 50/50 liquid then try a higher ratio of VG. I use 80/20 VG/PG as an example.
Overall Feeling of Ugh
You have been given this link,
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/health-safety-e-smoking/3305-list-symptoms-when-quitting-tobacco-changing-ecigarette.html
You, as well as the majority of responders, here, really should give this a thorough read.
Also, all here should read with the same focus this article,
Electronic cigarettes (e-cigs): views of aficionados and clinical/public health perspectives - Foulds - 2011 - International Journal of Clinical Practice - Wiley Online Library
We as vapers absorb much, much less nicotine from our devices then some seem to believe.
Your overall feeling of malaise is very likely common cigarette withdrawal.
Try working on your inhalation technique then,
Try higher VG ratio then,
Try higher nicotine levels.
From someone who's been there, I sincerely hope this helps (-:
ETA: Several additional valuable, solid posts were made while I was putting mine together. You've got some good advice goin' on now!
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I have been vaping almost a year and when I first started I had nearly every single symptom of withdrawal.
It sounds like you intended to stick with it and ride the storm out. I hope you do.
One thing I will mention is a few weeks ago I had almost identical issues as you describe. I found out that a new juice I had bought was giving me a headache that couldn't be beat down with normal remedies.
The juice had coloring in it. I love the flavor but just can't handle coloring. I will add. it was blue.
It sounds like you intended to stick with it and ride the storm out. I hope you do.
One thing I will mention is a few weeks ago I had almost identical issues as you describe. I found out that a new juice I had bought was giving me a headache that couldn't be beat down with normal remedies.
The juice had coloring in it. I love the flavor but just can't handle coloring. I will add. it was blue.
You smoked LESS when you were stressed?
Sorry about the problems you're having, but that's the opposite of what most smokers would do!
You might want to try a higher VG to PG ratio. PG gives a stronger throat hit (the coughing) VG gives more vapor. Lower the nic. Drink plenty of fluids at least 8 8oz glasses a day. I usually double that.
Please see a doctor. "Constant" Chronic high-grade headache that is not alleviated by OTC medicines, esp. 4 excedrins...
are not something to mess around withor that people on an internet forum can help you with.. Have you checked your blood pressure while having these headaches?
it may be unrelated to vaping but I would stop vaping until I saw a doctor. Do the symptoms go away when you do not vape?
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I've wondered if tight draws on tanks and clearos may cause headaches. Sometimes when I pull too hard I notice I get headaches sometimes.
I have had this experience with cheap brands of eLiquid - regardless of PG/VG or Nic level. Using quality eLiquids and have no problems.
Actually I found that high levels of VG make me cough *more* than PG, I think probably because I have asthma; glycerine is too heavy for asthmatic lungs, AND, I'm very accustomed to PG from my inhaler.
However, I did find that increasing my water intake helped to relieve that tight, dry cough that I get from the VG. I'll just be glad when my new order of my PG-based ejuice gets here tomorrow, because I really don't think a lot of VG is good for my asthma at all. Those without asthma probably do feel better with more VG, because I recall that when I first started using an inhaler about 30 yrs ago, it did seem to dry out my mouth and throat, and gave me a bit of a scratchy throat. Now I don't notice that at all. VG gives me the feeling that I bet my poor cat feels, trying over and over to hack up a hairball; it's very tiring to keep trying to cough up something that just won't move.
If he's getting a cough from increasing the nic level, I'd look more at the e-cig or PV itself -- depending on the model, it might provide a good throat hit just on its own, and I've heard that increasing nic can increase throat hit. I find that throat hit in the morning brings on that hack-up-a-lung phenomenon just like cigarettes did, so I lower the voltage on my iTaste vv3 pretty drastically; normally I like it set at about 4.6v - 4.8v, but in the morning, I can barely deal with 3.6. I also use a different e-juice in the morning that has very little throat hit at all -- in the morning, it feels like a Winston cigarette!
Andria
td, having been vaping for 5yrs+ I myself had the same issues early on and I have talked to a huge # of vapers that have also had the systems your having. So hard to pin your systems on 1 thing but with some trial and error I'm certain like so many others you'll get better. Try 100vg and 100pg could be allergic to either 1, many including myself cannot vape PG. It could be some of the flavors your using, bad nic. from your source, this is just a few things to consider in an effort to pinpoint what your issues are. I do not want you to get discouraged and go back to cigarettes. So try some liquid from a different vendor, also try some different vg/pg ratios, and try a few different flavors. I hope some of these suggestions help, please keep us posted were here to help you.
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There's a lot of chemicals in cigarettes that we were addicted to besides nicotine no matter now many mg nic were in the cigarettes!!
Ask them for Unflavored e-liquid, or buy your own small amount from DIY nicotine suppliers that we use here on ECF and get several different mg strengths. You can make your own adjustments. A pack a day smoker might need 6mg, 12mg, 18, or 24 etc. depending on the person and how your body absorbed it.
Lots of good links to read and much good advice has already been given about the effects of withdrawal, but I'll just mention a few things too.
Did you always get headaches when you were stressed and have you always used Excedrin (which has caffeine in it) to relieve the headaches ? Too much caffeine (or too little) could be in play here.
Caffeine and/or nicotine reduction could be why you are spaced out and not as alert as when you were smoking?
Menthol is another thing. Someone already asked about and mentioned that certain flavors can be causing your problems. Hopefully you can try vaping UNFLAVORED nic e-liquids (and hopefully a different supplier in case it is something in their nicotine base.) Sometimes certain types or brands of nicotine have a "peppery" feeling and cause irritation (or a feeling of too much throat hit, regardless of nic level.)
Good luck and best wishes. Keep us posted and hopefully you'll have it straightened out soon
There's a lot of chemicals in cigarettes that we were addicted to besides nicotine no matter now many mg nic were in the cigarettes!!
Ask them for Unflavored e-liquid, or buy your own small amount from DIY nicotine suppliers that we use here on ECF and get several different mg strengths. You can make your own adjustments. A pack a day smoker might need 6mg, 12mg, 18, or 24 etc. depending on the person and how your body absorbed it.
Lots of good links to read and much good advice has already been given about the effects of withdrawal, but I'll just mention a few things too.
Did you always get headaches when you were stressed and have you always used Excedrin (which has caffeine in it) to relieve the headaches ? Too much caffeine (or too little) could be in play here.
Caffeine and/or nicotine reduction could be why you are spaced out and not as alert as when you were smoking?
Menthol is another thing. Someone already asked about and mentioned that certain flavors can be causing your problems. Hopefully you can try vaping UNFLAVORED nic e-liquids (and hopefully a different supplier in case it is something in their nicotine base.) Sometimes certain types or brands of nicotine have a "peppery" feeling and cause irritation (or a feeling of too much throat hit, regardless of nic level.)
Good luck and best wishes. Keep us posted and hopefully you'll have it straightened out soon
All this is great advice. I had the same similar symptoms when quitting analogs. I didn't suffer from headaches, allergies, and didn't get sick much. That all changed the months after quitting. I too thought it possibly had something to do with vaping but after researching I found many ex-smokers complaining of the same problems. I have to agree that you are probably not getting enough nic and not hydrating enough. I can tell you that around 3-4 months after quitting, my body and mind started getting back to a normal. Good luck.
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